Wanted - a sensible marathon training schedule

You could try this:

halhigdon.comMultiplemara.htmOpen ↗

look at the six weeks in between, and start at week 5 instead of week 6.

Ab

"Jonathan Sydenham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm down for the Medoc marathon on September 7 and the Odense marathon on

12

Quoted message said:

October. I thought at first that Medoc would be hilly and was prepared

more

Quoted message said:

or less to walk it. But it turns out that it's quite flat so I'd like to

run

Quoted message said:

all the way, thoug taking it fairly easy. But I also want to run a PB in Odense 5 weeks later. How
should I schedule my training? There are some elements that are predetermined: club runs on
Mondays (12 to 15 k, marathon pace),

Wednesdays

Quoted message said:

(steady, gradually building up to about 10 miles), Thursdays (reps and

other

Quoted message said:

speed work) and Saturdays (slow, building up to about 22 k, or - with another group - steady,
building up to about 15 k). For my other marathons I've run my long runs on Sundays, alone, and
done 7 miles of fartlek on Saturdays. But the other club runners on this schedule will be training
for Berlin

(end

Quoted message said:

of September). The critical weeks will be between Medoc and Odense. This time, however, I have no
half marathons scheduled in between! Any ideas? Jonathan

Advanced Marathoning is the way to go. "Jonathan Sydenham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm down for the Medoc marathon on September 7 and the Odense marathon on

12

Quoted message said:

October. I thought at first that Medoc would be hilly and was prepared

more

Quoted message said:

or less to walk it. But it turns out that it's quite flat so I'd like to

run

Quoted message said:

all the way, thoug taking it fairly easy. But I also want to run a PB in Odense 5 weeks later. How
should I schedule my training? There are some elements that are predetermined: club runs on
Mondays (12 to 15 k, marathon pace),

Wednesdays

Quoted message said:

(steady, gradually building up to about 10 miles), Thursdays (reps and

other

Quoted message said:

speed work) and Saturdays (slow, building up to about 22 k, or - with another group - steady,
building up to about 15 k). For my other marathons I've run my long runs on Sundays, alone, and
done 7 miles of fartlek on Saturdays. But the other club runners on this schedule will be training
for Berlin

(end

Quoted message said:

of September). The critical weeks will be between Medoc and Odense. This time, however, I have no
half marathons scheduled in between! Any ideas? Jonathan

Jonathan You appear to already have a schedule if 4 of 7 days are fixed. Add in one rest day
(Friday) and your solo weekend sessions then there are no more days in the week!

If you do all of these sessions then you look to be doing plenty enough running.

You seem to indicate that you are treating the Medoc race as not a race at all. Clearly it would be
rather demanding to attempt 2 marathons 5 weeks apart at 100% effort. If you must walk the Medoc
"race" then why do it at all? If you want to do it then use it as one of your very long runs prior
to your main target.

Cheers Tim

"Jonathan Sydenham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm down for the Medoc marathon on September 7 and the Odense marathon on

12

Quoted message said:

October. I thought at first that Medoc would be hilly and was prepared

more

Quoted message said:

or less to walk it. But it turns out that it's quite flat so I'd like to

run

Quoted message said:

all the way, thoug taking it fairly easy. But I also want to run a PB in Odense 5 weeks later. How
should I schedule my training? There are some elements that are predetermined: club runs on
Mondays (12 to 15 k, marathon pace),

Wednesdays

Quoted message said:

(steady, gradually building up to about 10 miles), Thursdays (reps and

other

Quoted message said:

speed work) and Saturdays (slow, building up to about 22 k, or - with another group - steady,
building up to about 15 k). For my other marathons I've run my long runs on Sundays, alone, and
done 7 miles of fartlek on Saturdays. But the other club runners on this schedule will be training
for Berlin

(end

Quoted message said:

of September). The critical weeks will be between Medoc and Odense. This time, however, I have no
half marathons scheduled in between! Any ideas? Jonathan

kkkkkkkk

Quoted message said:

"Jonathan Sydenham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm down for the Medoc marathon on September 7 and the Odense marathon on

12

Quoted message said:

October. I thought at first that Medoc would be hilly and was prepared

more

Quoted message said:

or less to walk it. But it turns out that it's quite flat so I'd like to

run

Quoted message said:

all the way, thoug taking it fairly easy. But I also want to run a PB in Odense 5 weeks later. How
should I schedule my training?

I just finished a 50k and 50 mile race two weeks apart so I understand back to back races and
training. The best training tip I can offer is to do a few back-to-back training runs about 1/2 to
3/4 into your marathon plan. If your were running 16-2N on Saturday try a slow 8-12 on Sunday on
tired legs and then some very easy rest days. It's a gentler way to push yourself a little further
and less injury prone than all in one day.

Notice I said "less" injury prone and why I suggest you be
1/2 to 3/4 of the way into your training while you are stronger. This all assumes you have a
reasonable marathon schedule in place.

Quoted message said:

For my other marathons I've run my long runs on Sundays, alone, and done 7 miles of fartlek on
Saturdays.

It's a personal thing but I prefer an easy run the day before my long run which I consider more
important. This way if I feel better on my long run I might add a another mile or two. OTOH, if you
feel totally recovered then no problem.

Some simple thoughts from the senile and infirm.

--
Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" - B. McKibben Doug Freese
[email hidden]

I'm going to treat it as an LSD, that's right. What I'm in doubt about is the stuff in between - and
there are some very useful answers above. Thanks J "Tim Grose" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jonathan You appear to already have a schedule if 4 of 7 days are fixed. Add in one rest day
(Friday) and your solo weekend sessions then there are no more

days

Quoted message said:

in the week!

If you do all of these sessions then you look to be doing plenty enough running.

You seem to indicate that you are treating the Medoc race as not a race at all. Clearly it would
be rather demanding to attempt 2 marathons 5 weeks apart at 100% effort. If you must walk the
Medoc "race" then why do it at all? If you want to do it then use it as one of your very long
runs prior

to

Quoted message said:

your main target.

Cheers Tim

"Jonathan Sydenham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm down for the Medoc marathon on September 7 and the Odense marathon

on

Quoted message said:

12

Quoted message said:

October. I thought at first that Medoc would be hilly and was prepared

more

Quoted message said:

or less to walk it. But it turns out that it's quite flat so I'd like to

run

Quoted message said:

all the way, thoug taking it fairly easy. But I also want to run a PB in Odense 5 weeks later.
How should I schedule my training? There are some elements that are predetermined: club runs on
Mondays (12 to 15 k, marathon pace),

Wednesdays

Quoted message said:

(steady, gradually building up to about 10 miles), Thursdays (reps and

other

Quoted message said:

speed work) and Saturdays (slow, building up to about 22 k, or - with another group - steady,
building up to about 15 k). For my other

marathons

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've run my long runs on Sundays, alone, and done 7 miles of fartlek on Saturdays. But the other
club runners on this schedule will be training for Berlin

(end

Quoted message said:

of September). The critical weeks will be between Medoc and Odense. This time, however,

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have no half marathons scheduled in between! Any ideas? Jonathan

Thanks - this is great. J "Ab" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1%Hma.1093$uE5.997@fed1read01...

Quoted message said:

You could try this:

halhigdon.comMultiplemara.htmOpen ↗

look at the six weeks in between, and start at week 5 instead of week 6.

Ab

"Jonathan Sydenham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm down for the Medoc marathon on September 7 and the Odense marathon

on

Quoted message said:

12

Quoted message said:

October. I thought at first that Medoc would be hilly and was prepared

more

Quoted message said:

or less to walk it. But it turns out that it's quite flat so I'd like to

run

Quoted message said:

all the way, thoug taking it fairly easy. But I also want to run a PB in Odense 5 weeks later.
How should I schedule my training? There are some elements that are predetermined: club runs on
Mondays (12 to 15 k, marathon pace),

Wednesdays

Quoted message said:

(steady, gradually building up to about 10 miles), Thursdays (reps and

other

Quoted message said:

speed work) and Saturdays (slow, building up to about 22 k, or - with another group - steady,
building up to about 15 k). For my other

marathons

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've run my long runs on Sundays, alone, and done 7 miles of fartlek on Saturdays. But the other
club runners on this schedule will be training for Berlin

(end

Quoted message said:

of September). The critical weeks will be between Medoc and Odense. This time, however,

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have no half marathons scheduled in between! Any ideas? Jonathan

Thanks. The club runs can be varied a bit in terms of length - I can add 5 k by running out to the
club house and back, and I can choose from among at least three groups. I can also skip them! I
think you're right about the back-to-backs. I'm pencilling in a 25 k for August 3 and a 30 k for
August 10 with easy runs in between, then a nice 16 k for Aug 17 followed by a 33 k on 24 August,
two weeks before the first marathon. In my heaviest weeks I expect to be doing about 90 k a week (c.
60 miles). I should say I'm taking a four week break with just light running (3 times a week) from
mid May to Mid June. Then I'll start on the same programme (basically) as the club runners training
for Berlin. What concerns me most at the moment is the five weks in between - but Ab has suggested a
useful link above. Regards from the demented and infirm Jonathan

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

kkkkkkkk

Quoted message said:

"Jonathan Sydenham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm down for the Medoc marathon on September 7 and the Odense marathon

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

12

Quoted message said:

October. I thought at first that Medoc would be hilly and was prepared

more

Quoted message said:

or less to walk it. But it turns out that it's quite flat so I'd like to

run

Quoted message said:

all the way, thoug taking it fairly easy. But I also want to run a PB in Odense 5 weeks later.
How should I schedule my training?

I just finished a 50k and 50 mile race two weeks apart so I understand back to back races and
training. The best training tip I can offer is to do a few back-to-back training runs about 1/2 to
3/4 into your marathon plan. If your were running 16-2N on Saturday try a slow 8-12 on Sunday on
tired legs and then some very easy rest days. It's a gentler way to push yourself a little further
and less injury prone than all in one day.

Notice I said "less" injury prone and why I suggest you be
1/2 to 3/4 of the way into your training while you are stronger. This all assumes you have a
reasonable marathon schedule in place.

Quoted message said:

For my other marathons I've run my long runs on Sundays, alone, and done 7 miles of fartlek on
Saturdays.

It's a personal thing but I prefer an easy run the day before my long run which I consider more
important. This way if I feel better on my long run I might add a another mile or two. OTOH, if
you feel totally recovered then no problem.

Some simple thoughts from the senile and infirm.

--
Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" - B. McKibben Doug Freese
[email hidden]

Jonathan Sydenham said:

I'm going to treat it as an LSD, that's right. What I'm in doubt about is the stuff in between -
and there are some very useful answers above.

You are asking the right question but only you know the answer. What you do in between weeks is
dependent on your recovery. You can rule out some obvious bad things but what does one do in the
interim??? The fact that you plan to do the first as a training run is correct. Anything more will
hurt your effort.

From a pie in the sky quess I would try a 10-14 about 2 1/2 to three weeks prior to the second run,
assuming recovery and then taper again.

--
Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" - B. McKibben Doug Freese
[email hidden]

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jonathan Sydenham said:

I'm going to treat it as an LSD, that's right. What I'm in doubt about

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the stuff in between - and there are some very useful answers above.

You are asking the right question but only you know the answer. What you do in between weeks is
dependent on your recovery. You can rule out some obvious bad things but what does one do in the
interim??? The fact that you plan to do the first as a training run is correct. Anything more will
hurt your effort.

From a pie in the sky quess I would try a 10-14 about 2 1/2 to three weeks prior to the second
run, assuming recovery and then taper again.

--
Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" - B. McKibben Doug Freese
[email hidden]

I'd thought of a really long run half way through the five weeks but I can see now that it would be
truly demented. 10 to 14 is the max I'll go for. Luckily our club moves its saturday runs down to
the Royal Deer Park in September in preparation for a 13 k race (I reported on last year's I think)
on 5 October. We run the route of the race on three Saturdays prior to the actual race. By running
out to the park from the local station and back i can make it about 12 miles. Jog warm up, 13 k,
then jog cool down. The other Saturdays I'll go all the way by car with my wife drivig - she's taken
up running now as well, and all being well she'll enter the race as her first! Jonathan

"Jonathan Sydenham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

How should I schedule my training?

Do you mean leading up to Medoc or between Medoc and Odense?

The latter probably. but I´ll offer my 25-øre on the former:-)

Quoted message said:

There are some elements that are predetermined:

That is, you´d rather not skip them too often.

Quoted message said:

club runs on Mondays (12 to 15 k, marathon pace),

Excellent. Though there exists another school of thought, a weekly MP run can be used as one of the
cornerstones.

Tuesday could be a very easy 30-35 minute run.

Quoted message said:

Wednesdays (steady, gradually building up to about 10 miles),

Fine (and you cannot add anything because of the following day´s reps).

Quoted message said:

Thursdays (reps and other speed work)

Could you do longer reps at LT pace, say 4-6x5mins? (There doesn´t seem to be an obvious pace for
the LT run - and IMHO there should be one such session each week.)

On Fridays, write "Rest" in your training log.

Quoted message said:

and Saturdays (slow, building up to about 22 k, or - with another group - steady, building up to
about 15 k).

Of course, you could try to be a real tough dude and do the LT reps after the slow Sat run every
other week and do the shorter long run on the Sats in between?

If not, switch between groups in any case.

For Sundays I´d recommend something as radical as stretching and running-specific strength
exercises. Do a bike ride if you like:-)

Anders

Thanks for the suggestions. As you inferred I am mainly concerned with the period in between. But
thanks for helping me square the club runs with a fuller marathon schedule - I've been at a bit of a
loss as to how to do it sensibly. I may take you up on the tough dude Saturday thing. The Saturday
club runs IMHO are generally not long enough to qualify as LSDs anyway, so I'm going to do those on
Sundays on my own. Jonathan "lustig" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jonathan Sydenham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How should I schedule my training?

Do you mean leading up to Medoc or between Medoc and Odense?

The latter probably. but I´ll offer my 25-øre on the former:-)

Quoted message said:

There are some elements that are predetermined:

That is, you´d rather not skip them too often.

Quoted message said:

club runs on Mondays (12 to 15 k, marathon pace),

Excellent. Though there exists another school of thought, a weekly MP run can be used as one of
the cornerstones.

Tuesday could be a very easy 30-35 minute run.

Quoted message said:

Wednesdays (steady, gradually building up to about 10 miles),

Fine (and you cannot add anything because of the following day´s reps).

Quoted message said:

Thursdays (reps and other speed work)

Could you do longer reps at LT pace, say 4-6x5mins? (There doesn´t seem to be an obvious pace for
the LT run - and IMHO there should be one such session each week.)

On Fridays, write "Rest" in your training log.

Quoted message said:

and Saturdays (slow, building up to about 22 k, or - with another group - steady, building up to
about 15 k).

Of course, you could try to be a real tough dude and do the LT reps after the slow Sat run every
other week and do the shorter long run on the Sats in between?

If not, switch between groups in any case.

For Sundays I´d recommend something as radical as stretching and running-specific strength
exercises. Do a bike ride if you like:-)

Anders

This kinda depends how important it is for you to PR in the second race. If you REALLY want to PR,
don't run the whole first marathon. I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I can almost
guarantee you will run faster in the second one if you don't run the first one all they way. Like I
said, it depends how important it is to you...good luck! ANdy Hass

I know. You're right. Maybe I can walk the last 10k? Or would that count as running??? Jonathan
<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This kinda depends how important it is for you to PR in the second

race.

Quoted message said:

If you REALLY want to PR, don't run the whole first marathon. I know this isn't what you want to
hear, but I can almost guarantee you will run

faster

Quoted message said:

in the second one if you don't run the first one all they way. Like I

said,

Quoted message said:

it depends how important it is to you...good luck! ANdy Hass