Wanting help with a cartilage problem

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm wanting some support not to go under the knife on March 10th ! Has
anyone had a similar experience who would like to comment please.

I've had keyhole type arthroscopy on both knees over the past 10 years
to trim the cartilage - I seem to remember something like the
'cartioid' cartilage. This allowed me to get back on the hills.

About a year ago the left knee flared up again - the consultant's
comment in June was that it was probably a bit like old rubber with
bits flaking off, and that he could not guarantee that another trim
would not stop the deterioration. On the wrong side of 60 this is
quite understandable.

I saw him again in October and he scheduled me for an operation. Since
then I have about half a dozen 3 to 5 hour walks without any pain or
weakness on the hill, but noticeable discomfort the following days.
Saturday saw a fairly sharp 4 hours in snow on the Ochils behind
Stirling and the reason for writing this is that I'm now noticing that
the subsequent pain level and recovery period are both getting less
each time I go out, suggesting possibly that the 'flake' is not having
so much impact and may stop giving me bother in it's own good time.

I appreciate that the decision must be between me and the specialist
but has anyone had any similar experience ?

Thanks

Rob

i took 2 weeks off work to have arthroscopy's on both knees last june and
i'm still off work. i can't even kneel or crouch since having the surgery
and walking can be a bit iffy sometimes. it often turns more into a limp to
my destination and back than a walk. because my job involves using chainsaws
me employers insurance wont cover me so i cant go back to work until my
knee's are fixed. i did finally get to have an mri scan on 'ONE' knee two
weeks ago so hopefully they'll find out what the problem is and get me fixed
so i can get back to what i call normal life.
i dont want to sway you one way or the other but i certainly wish i never
went for the op in the first place

On 13 Feb 2006 02:12:50 -0800, [email hidden] wrote:

|I'm wanting some support not to go under the knife on March 10th ! Has
|anyone had a similar experience who would like to comment please.
|
|I've had keyhole type arthroscopy on both knees over the past 10 years
|to trim the cartilage - I seem to remember something like the
|'cartioid' cartilage. This allowed me to get back on the hills.
|
|About a year ago the left knee flared up again - the consultant's
|comment in June was that it was probably a bit like old rubber with
|bits flaking off, and that he could not guarantee that another trim
|would not stop the deterioration. On the wrong side of 60 this is
|quite understandable.
|
|I saw him again in October and he scheduled me for an operation. Since
|then I have about half a dozen 3 to 5 hour walks without any pain or
|weakness on the hill, but noticeable discomfort the following days.
|Saturday saw a fairly sharp 4 hours in snow on the Ochils behind
|Stirling and the reason for writing this is that I'm now noticing that
|the subsequent pain level and recovery period are both getting less
|each time I go out, suggesting possibly that the 'flake' is not having
|so much impact and may stop giving me bother in it's own good time.
|
|I appreciate that the decision must be between me and the specialist
|but has anyone had any similar experience ?

I have a bump of cartilage on the front of my knee, below the knee cap, and
have had for the last <mumble> years. I still walk, but not as far as I
did when on the ?right? side of 60. I keep the slight pain under control
with Ibuprofen, which is also an anti inflammatory, *before* I walk.

Operations are *not* risk free, generally 1:100 die after having had/under
a general anaesthetic. Ask your consultant what his mortality (deaths
resulting from the operation) rates for this operation are, also morbidity
(when the operation itself results in medical problems. Do *not* accept
"low" as an answer.

The choice is yours, pain when walking or a slight risk of worse.
--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
Freedom of Speech, Expression, Religion, and Democracy are
the keys to Civilization, together with legal acceptance of
Fundamental Human rights.

In message <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] writes

Quoted message said:

I'm wanting some support not to go under the knife on March 10th ! Has
anyone had a similar experience who would like to comment please.

I've had keyhole type arthroscopy on both knees over the past 10 years
to trim the cartilage - I seem to remember something like the
'cartioid' cartilage. This allowed me to get back on the hills.

About a year ago the left knee flared up again - the consultant's
comment in June was that it was probably a bit like old rubber with
bits flaking off, and that he could not guarantee that another trim
would not stop the deterioration. On the wrong side of 60 this is
quite understandable.

I saw him again in October and he scheduled me for an operation. Since
then I have about half a dozen 3 to 5 hour walks without any pain or
weakness on the hill, but noticeable discomfort the following days.
Saturday saw a fairly sharp 4 hours in snow on the Ochils behind
Stirling and the reason for writing this is that I'm now noticing that
the subsequent pain level and recovery period are both getting less
each time I go out, suggesting possibly that the 'flake' is not having
so much impact and may stop giving me bother in it's own good time.

I appreciate that the decision must be between me and the specialist
but has anyone had any similar experience ?

Tell your consultant about the change in your condition.

Quoted message said:

Thanks

Rob

--
Surfer!
Email to: ramwater at uk2 dot net

In message <[email hidden]>, Dave Fawthrop
<[email hidden]> writes

SNIP

Quoted message said:

Operations are *not* risk free, generally 1:100 die after having had/under
a general anaesthetic.

Did you miss a few noughts off this figure, Dave? The Royal College of
Anaesthetists reckons about 1:100,000.

http://www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/26740178/

Regards
--
Neil Pugh

On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 15:25:08 +0000, Neil Pugh <[email hidden]>
wrote:

|In message <[email hidden]>, Dave Fawthrop
|<[email hidden]> writes
|
|SNIP
|
|>
|>Operations are *not* risk free, generally 1:100 die after having had/under
|>a general anaesthetic.
|
|Did you miss a few noughts off this figure, Dave? The Royal College of
|Anaesthetists reckons about 1:100,000.
|
|http://www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/26740178/

The URL does not give that information. :-( The Royal College of
Anaesthetists could by no means be considered to be other than biased.
The 1:100,000 figure might well be "deaths which can be proved to be a
result of anaesthesia alone", not my carefully worded "die after having
had/under a general anaesthetic."
--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
Freedom of Speech, Expression, Religion, and Democracy are
the keys to Civilization, together with legal acceptance of
Fundamental Human rights.

Dave Fawthrop said:

The URL does not give that information. :-( The Royal College of
Anaesthetists could by no means be considered to be other than biased.
The 1:100,000 figure might well be "deaths which can be proved to be a
result of anaesthesia alone", not my carefully worded "die after having
had/under a general anaesthetic."

But it's actually rather careless wording as it fails to take into
account the general severity of the operation and what is being operated
on. Now I don't have figures here, but I'm guessing emergency organ
transplant surgery has a rather higher fatality rate than knee ops using
the same basic anaesthetic procedures. Just quoting some figure for all
operations isn't really very helpful.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

Dave Fawthrop said:

The URL does not give that information. :-( The Royal College of
Anaesthetists could by no means be considered to be other than biased.
The 1:100,000 figure might well be "deaths which can be proved to be a
result of anaesthesia alone", not my carefully worded "die after having
had/under a general anaesthetic."

But it's actually rather careless wording as it fails to take into
account the general severity of the operation and what is being operated
on. Now I don't have figures here, but I'm guessing emergency organ
transplant surgery has a rather higher fatality rate than knee ops using
the same basic anaesthetic procedures. Just quoting some figure for all
operations isn't really very helpful.

It's like saying 100% die after having had/under a general anaesthetic,
because they do. Nowt to do with the gas though.
--
Craig Oldfield

In message <[email hidden]>, Dave Fawthrop
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 15:25:08 +0000, Neil Pugh <[email hidden]>
wrote:

|In message <[email hidden]>, Dave Fawthrop
|<[email hidden]> writes
|
|SNIP
|
|>
|>Operations are *not* risk free, generally 1:100 die after having had/under
|>a general anaesthetic.
|
|Did you miss a few noughts off this figure, Dave? The Royal College of
|Anaesthetists reckons about 1:100,000.
|
|http://www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/26740178/

The URL does not give that information. :-( The Royal College of
Anaesthetists could by no means be considered to be other than biased.
The 1:100,000 figure might well be "deaths which can be proved to be a
result of anaesthesia alone", not my carefully worded "die after having
had/under a general anaesthetic."

Sorry, url should have been:

http://www.rcoa.ac.uk/docs/death%20or%20brain%20damage.pdf

--
Neil Pugh

On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 16:36:54 +0000, Neil Pugh <[email hidden]>
wrote:

|In message <[email hidden]>, Dave Fawthrop
|<[email hidden]> writes
|>On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 15:25:08 +0000, Neil Pugh <[email hidden]>
|>wrote:
|>
|>|In message <[email hidden]>, Dave Fawthrop
|>|<[email hidden]> writes
|>|
|>|SNIP
|>|
|>|>
|>|>Operations are *not* risk free, generally 1:100 die after having had/under
|>|>a general anaesthetic.
|>|
|>|Did you miss a few noughts off this figure, Dave? The Royal College of
|>|Anaesthetists reckons about 1:100,000.
|>|
|>|http://www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/26740178/
|>
|>The URL does not give that information. :-( The Royal College of
|>Anaesthetists could by no means be considered to be other than biased.
|>The 1:100,000 figure might well be "deaths which can be proved to be a
|>result of anaesthesia alone", not my carefully worded "die after having
|>had/under a general anaesthetic."
|
|Sorry, url should have been:
|
|http://www.rcoa.ac.uk/docs/death%20or%20brain%20damage.pdf

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you are a healthy patient, who is having

non-emergency surgery, the short answer
is that death is very rare. An exact figure
is not known, but is around 1 death per
100,000 general anaesthetics.<<<

In other words the RCOA blaming everyone and everything else for problems.

Which is why I suggested that on a bit now snipped that >>>
Ask your consultant what his mortality (deaths
resulting from the operation) rates for this operation are, also morbidity
(when the operation itself results in medical problems. Do *not* accept
"low" as an answer.<<<

--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
Freedom of Speech, Expression, Religion, and Democracy are
the keys to Civilization, together with legal acceptance of
Fundamental Human rights.

I thought I recognised the Fawthrop title from rec.diy - I plugged your
name into the search box there and found you getting a right slagging
there too !!!

Not sure that mortality rates and keyhole knee surgery are in quite the
same area but I take your point.

The irony of this particular dose of cartilage problem is that if I
don't be energetic for a week or so, I get absolutely no pain when on
the hills - it is only the following days. So the walking only creates
some sort of irritation it seems. Coming off the Ochils is steep and
real knee destroyer but with care and poles I had no problems at all.

I definitely leaning towards ducking the operation !

Rob

Quoted message said:

I'm wanting some support not to go under the knife on March 10th ! Has
anyone had a similar experience who would like to comment please.

Quoted message said:

I've had keyhole type arthroscopy on both knees over the past 10 years
to trim the cartilage - I seem to remember something like the
'cartioid' cartilage. This allowed me to get back on the hills.

Quoted message said:

About a year ago the left knee flared up again - the consultant's
comment in June was that it was probably a bit like old rubber with
bits flaking off, and that he could not guarantee that another trim
would not stop the deterioration. On the wrong side of 60 this is
quite understandable.

Quoted message said:

I saw him again in October and he scheduled me for an operation. Since
then I have about half a dozen 3 to 5 hour walks without any pain or
weakness on the hill, but noticeable discomfort the following days.
Saturday saw a fairly sharp 4 hours in snow on the Ochils behind
Stirling and the reason for writing this is that I'm now noticing that
the subsequent pain level and recovery period are both getting less
each time I go out, suggesting possibly that the 'flake' is not having
so much impact and may stop giving me bother in it's own good time.

Quoted message said:

I appreciate that the decision must be between me and the specialist
but has anyone had any similar experience ?

I once ran down the Buchaille in the rain, and caught the loops of my
laces in the metal lace hoops of the other boot. Result was I fell
downwards and landed on my knees on a large boulder. Result painful
knees that sounded like cracking firewood when I stood up slowly. Doc
said the usual remedy was to scrape the damaged bits off, but if I was
lucky I might be able to wear the damage smooth just by exercise. He
advised lots of walking up hills and stairs carrying as little weight
as possible, but never to push it if it hurt, and to rest any hurt
away before resuming exercising it. It took about a year of slow
improvement to work, but it did.

OTOH I was 20 at the time :-)

I do seem to know quite a lot of old folk whose knee-improving surgery
certainly did not improve their knees at all, which makes me rather
suspicious. I'd carefully look into the success rate of this operation
on folk like you.

You could save up the surgery as an option to use if no surgery doesn't
work :-)

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]