General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Was Jesus Compassionate

Started by Wholey_smoke · · Last activity · 225 posts · 6,282 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
26 January 2004
Last activity
11 March 2004
Original author
Wholey_smoke
Posts
225
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
6,282
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–20 of 225
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. Was Jesus Peaceable And Compassionate? The birth of Jesus was heralded with "Peace on Earth," yet
    Jesus said, "Think not that I am come to send peace: I came not to send peace but a sword." (Matthew
    10:34) "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." (Luke 22:36) "But those mine
    enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
    (Luke 19:27. In a parable, but spoken of favorably.)

    The burning of unbelievers during the Inquisition was based on the words of Jesus: "If a man abide
    not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into
    the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:6)

    Jesus looked at his critics "with anger" (Mark 3:5), and attacked merchants with a whip (John 2:15).
    He showed his respect for life by drowning innocent animals (Matthew 8:32). He refused to heal a
    sick child until he was pressured by the mother (Matthew 15:22-28).

    The most revealing aspect of his character was his promotion of eternal torment. "The Son of man
    [Jesus himself] shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things
    that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be
    wailing and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 13:41-42) "And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is
    better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that
    never shall be quenched." (Mark 9:43)

    Is this nice? Is it exemplary to make your point with threats of violence? Is hell a kind,
    peaceful idea?

    Did Jesus Promote "Family Values"? "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and
    wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my
    disciple." (Luke 14:26)

    "I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the
    daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."
    (Matthew 10:35-36)

    When one of his disciples requested time off for his father's funeral, Jesus rebuked him: "Let the
    dead bury their dead." (Matthew 8:22)

    Jesus never used the word "family." He never married or fathered children. To his own mother, he
    said, "Woman, what have I to do with thee?" (John 2:4)

    What Were His Views On Equality And Social Justice? Jesus encouraged the beating of slaves: "And
    that servant [slave], which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to
    his will, shall be beaten with many stripes." (Luke 12:47) He never denounced servitude,
    incorporating the master-slave relationship into many of his parables.

    He did nothing to alleviate poverty. Rather than sell some expensive ointment to help the poor,
    Jesus wasted it on himself, saying, "Ye have the poor with you always." (Mark 14:3-7)

    No women were chosen as disciples or invited to the Last Supper.

    What Moral Advice Did Jesus Give? "There be eunuchs which have made themselves eunuchs for the
    kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." (Matthew
    19:12) Some believers, including church father Origen, took this verse literally and castrated
    themselves. Even metaphorically, this advice is in poor taste.

    a.. If you do something wrong with your eye or hand, cut/pluck it off

    b.. Marrying a divorced woman is adultery. (Matthew 5:32)
    c.. Don't plan for the future. (Matthew 6:34)
    d.. Don't save money. (Matthew 6:19-20)
    e.. Don't become wealthy. (Mark 10:21-25)
    f.. Sell everything and give it to the poor. (Luke 12:33)
    g.. Don't work to obtain food. (John 6:27)

    h.. Make people want to persecute you. (Matthew 5:11)
    i.. Let everyone know you are better than the rest. (Matthew 5:13-16)
    j.. Take money from those who have no savings and give it to rich investors. (Luke 19:23-26)
    k.. If someone steals from you, don't try to get it back. (Luke 6:30)
    l.. If someone hits you, invite them to do it again. (Matthew 5:39)
    m.. If you lose a lawsuit, give more than the judgment. (Matthew 5:40)
    n.. If someone forces you to walk a mile, walk two miles. (Matthew 5:41)
    o.. If anyone asks you for anything, give it to them without question. (Matthew 5:42) Is this
    wise? Is this what you would teach your children?

    Was Jesus Reliable? Jesus told his disciples that they would not die before his second coming:
    "There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in
    his kingdom" (Matthew 16:28). "Behold, I come quickly." (Revelation 3:11) It's been 2,000 years, and
    believers are still waiting for his "quick" return.

    He mistakenly claimed that the mustard seed is "the least of all seeds" (Matt. 13:32), and that salt
    could "lose its savour" (Matthew 5:13).

    Jesus said that whoever calls somebody a "fool" shall be in danger of hell fire (Matthew 5:22), yet
    he called people "fools" himself (Matthew 23:17).

    Regarding his own truthfulness, Jesus gave two conflicting opinions: "If I bear witness of myself,
    my witness is not true" (John 5:31), and "Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true"
    (John 8:14).

    Was Jesus A Good Example? He irrationally cursed a fig tree for being fruitless out of
    season (Matthew
    21:18-19, and Mark 11:13-14). He broke the law by stealing corn on the Sabbath (Mark 2:23), and he
    encouraged his disciples to take a horse without asking permission (Matthew 21).

    The "humble" Jesus said that he was "greater than the temple" (Matt 12:6), "greater than Jonah"
    (Matthew 12:41), and "greater than Solomon" (Matthew
    21:1). He appeared to suffer from a dictator's "paranoia" when he said, "He that is not with me is
    against me" (Matthew 12:30).

    Why Jesus? Although other verses can be cited that portray Jesus in a different light, they do not
    erase the disturbing side of his character. The conflicting passages, however, prove that the New
    Testament is contradictory.

    The "Golden Rule" had been said many times by earlier religious leaders. (Confucius: "Do not unto
    others that you would not have them do unto you."😉 "Turn the other cheek" encourages victims to
    invite further violence. "Love thy neighbor" applied only to fellow believers. (Neither the Jews nor
    Jesus showed much love to foreign religions). A few of the Beatitudes ("Blessed are the
    peacemakers"😉 are acceptable, but they are all conditions of future reward, not based on respect for
    human life or values.

    On the whole, Jesus said little that was worthwhile. He introduced nothing new to ethics (except
    hell). He instituted no social programs. Being "omniscient," he could have shared some useful
    science or medicine, but he appeared ignorant of such things (as if his character were merely the
    invention of writers stuck in the first century).

    Many scholars are doubtful of the historical existence of Jesus. Albert Schweitzer said, "The
    historical Jesus will be to our time a stranger and an enigma." No first-century writer confirms
    the Jesus story. The New Testament is internally contradictory and contains historical errors. The
    story is filled with miracles and other outrageous claims. Consisting mostly of material borrowed
    from pagan religions, the Jesus story appears to be cut from the same fabric as all other myths
    and fables.

    Why is Jesus so special? It would be more reasonable and productive to emulate real, flesh-and-blood
    human beings who have contributed to humanity--mothers who have given birth, scientists who have
    alleviated suffering, social reformers who have fought injustice--than to worship a character of
    such dubious qualities as Jesus.

  2. wholey_smoke said:

    Was Jesus Peaceable And Compassionate? The birth of Jesus was heralded with "Peace on Earth," yet
    Jesus said, "Think not that I am come to send peace: I came not to send peace but a sword."
    (Matthew 10:34) "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." (Luke 22:36) "But
    those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them
    before me." (Luke 19:27. In a parable, but spoken of favorably.)

    The burning of unbelievers during the Inquisition was based on the words of Jesus: "If a man abide
    not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into
    the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:6)

    Jesus looked at his critics "with anger" (Mark 3:5), and attacked merchants with a whip (John
    2:15). He showed his respect for life by drowning innocent animals (Matthew 8:32). He refused to
    heal a sick child until he was pressured by the mother (Matthew 15:22-28).

    The most revealing aspect of his character was his promotion of eternal torment. "The Son of man
    [Jesus himself] shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things
    that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall
    be wailing and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 13:41-42) "And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it
    is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire
    that never shall be quenched." (Mark 9:43)

    Is this nice? Is it exemplary to make your point with threats of violence? Is hell a kind,
    peaceful idea?

    Did Jesus Promote "Family Values"? "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother,
    and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my
    disciple." (Luke 14:26)

    "I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and
    the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own
    household." (Matthew 10:35-36)

    When one of his disciples requested time off for his father's funeral, Jesus rebuked him: "Let the
    dead bury their dead." (Matthew 8:22)

    Jesus never used the word "family." He never married or fathered children. To his own mother, he
    said, "Woman, what have I to do with thee?" (John 2:4)

    What Were His Views On Equality And Social Justice? Jesus encouraged the beating of slaves: "And
    that servant [slave], which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according
    to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes." (Luke 12:47) He never denounced servitude,
    incorporating the master-slave relationship into many of his parables.

    He did nothing to alleviate poverty. Rather than sell some expensive ointment to help the poor,
    Jesus wasted it on himself, saying, "Ye have the poor with you always." (Mark 14:3-7)

    No women were chosen as disciples or invited to the Last Supper.

    What Moral Advice Did Jesus Give? "There be eunuchs which have made themselves eunuchs for the
    kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." (Matthew
    19:12) Some believers, including church father Origen, took this verse literally and castrated
    themselves. Even metaphorically, this advice is in poor taste.

    a.. If you do something wrong with your eye or hand, cut/pluck it off

    Quoted message said:

    b.. Marrying a divorced woman is adultery. (Matthew 5:32)
    c.. Don't plan for the future. (Matthew 6:34)
    d.. Don't save money. (Matthew 6:19-20)
    e.. Don't become wealthy. (Mark 10:21-25)
    f.. Sell everything and give it to the poor. (Luke 12:33)
    g.. Don't work to obtain food. (John 6:27)

    Quoted message said:

    i.. Make people want to persecute you. (Matthew 5:11)
    j.. Let everyone know you are better than the rest. (Matthew 5:13-16)
    k.. Take money from those who have no savings and give it to rich investors. (Luke 19:23-26)
    l.. If someone steals from you, don't try to get it back. (Luke 6:30)
    m.. If someone hits you, invite them to do it again. (Matthew 5:39)
    n.. If you lose a lawsuit, give more than the judgment. (Matthew 5:40)
    o.. If someone forces you to walk a mile, walk two miles. (Matthew 5:41)
    p.. If anyone asks you for anything, give it to them without question. (Matthew 5:42) Is this
    wise? Is this what you would teach your children?

    Was Jesus Reliable? Jesus told his disciples that they would not die before his second coming:
    "There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming
    in his kingdom" (Matthew 16:28). "Behold, I come quickly." (Revelation 3:11) It's been 2,000
    years, and believers are still waiting for his "quick" return.

    He mistakenly claimed that the mustard seed is "the least of all seeds" (Matt. 13:32), and that
    salt could "lose its savour" (Matthew 5:13).

    Jesus said that whoever calls somebody a "fool" shall be in danger of hell fire (Matthew 5:22),
    yet he called people "fools" himself (Matthew 23:17).

    Regarding his own truthfulness, Jesus gave two conflicting opinions: "If I bear witness of myself,
    my witness is not true" (John 5:31), and "Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true"
    (John 8:14).

    Was Jesus A Good Example? He irrationally cursed a fig tree for being fruitless out of season
    (Matthew
    21:18-19, and Mark 11:13-14). He broke the law by stealing corn on the Sabbath (Mark 2:23), and he
    encouraged his disciples to take a horse without asking permission (Matthew 21).

    The "humble" Jesus said that he was "greater than the temple" (Matt 12:6), "greater than Jonah"
    (Matthew 12:41), and "greater than Solomon" (Matthew
    12:42). He appeared to suffer from a dictator's "paranoia" when he said, "He that is not with me
    is against me" (Matthew 12:30).

    Why Jesus? Although other verses can be cited that portray Jesus in a different light, they do not
    erase the disturbing side of his character. The conflicting passages, however, prove that the New
    Testament is contradictory.

    The "Golden Rule" had been said many times by earlier religious leaders. (Confucius: "Do not unto
    others that you would not have them do unto you."😉 "Turn the other cheek" encourages victims to
    invite further violence. "Love thy neighbor" applied only to fellow believers. (Neither the Jews
    nor Jesus showed much love to foreign religions). A few of the Beatitudes ("Blessed are the
    peacemakers"😉 are acceptable, but they are all conditions of future reward, not based on respect
    for human life or values.

    On the whole, Jesus said little that was worthwhile. He introduced nothing new to ethics (except
    hell). He instituted no social programs. Being "omniscient," he could have shared some useful
    science or medicine, but he appeared ignorant of such things (as if his character were merely the
    invention of writers stuck in the first century).

    Many scholars are doubtful of the historical existence of Jesus. Albert Schweitzer said, "The
    historical Jesus will be to our time a stranger and an enigma." No first-century writer confirms
    the Jesus story. The New Testament is internally contradictory and contains historical errors. The
    story is filled with miracles and other outrageous claims. Consisting mostly of material borrowed
    from pagan religions, the Jesus story appears to be cut from the same fabric as all other myths
    and fables.

    Why is Jesus so special?

    Jesus answers as written in John 14:

    6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except
    through me..."

    Quoted message said:

    It would be more reasonable and productive to emulate real, flesh-and-blood human beings who have
    contributed to humanity--mothers who have given birth, scientists who have alleviated suffering,
    social reformers who have fought injustice--than to worship a character of such dubious qualities
    as Jesus.

    I prefer the truth.

    Humbly,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

  3. This really belongs in a religion group, not sci.med.cardiology but since you posted - now you know
    why us Jews have and will never accept jesus as their "moshiach", for the reasons in your post and
    many others.

  4. Pete C. said:

    This really belongs in a religion group, not sci.med.cardiology but since you posted - now you
    know why us Jews have and will never accept jesus as their "moshiach", for the reasons in your
    post and many others.

    Hope for your sake, God the Father accepts your excuse.

    It remains my belief that He won't. Sorry.

    Humbly,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

  5. (Pete C.) said:

    now you know why us Jews have and will never accept jesus as their "moshiach", for the reasons in
    your post and many others.

    Best rethink that. You are no longer the only Chosen Ones.

    antwrp.gsfc.nasa.govap031122.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

  6. Have you noticed Pete C that Chung and his first Lieutenant MU_lti_Facets_Of_Lunacy always sign of
    with threats. The fact's are there and are indisputable.

    "Pete C." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    This really belongs in a religion group, not sci.med.cardiology but since you posted - now you
    know why us Jews have and will never accept jesus as their "moshiach", for the reasons in your
    post and many others.

  7. "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    wholey_smoke said:

    Was Jesus Peaceable And Compassionate? The birth of Jesus was heralded with "Peace on Earth,"
    yet Jesus said, "Think not that I am come to send peace: I came not to send peace but a sword."
    (Matthew 10:34) "He that hath no sword, let him sell his


    garment,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and buy one." (Luke 22:36) "But those mine enemies, which would not that


    I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." (Luke


    19:27.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    In a parable, but spoken of favorably.)

    The burning of unbelievers during the Inquisition was based on the words


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Jesus: "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather
    them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:6)

    Jesus looked at his critics "with anger" (Mark 3:5), and attacked


    merchants

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    with a whip (John 2:15). He showed his respect for life by drowning


    innocent

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    animals (Matthew 8:32). He refused to heal a sick child until he was pressured by the mother
    (Matthew 15:22-28).

    The most revealing aspect of his character was his promotion of eternal torment. "The Son of man
    [Jesus himself] shall send forth his angels,


    and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them


    which

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of
    teeth." (Matthew 13:41-42) "And if thy hand


    offend

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go
    into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched." (Mark 9:43)

    Is this nice? Is it exemplary to make your point with threats of


    violence?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Is hell a kind, peaceful idea?

    Did Jesus Promote "Family Values"? "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother,
    and wife,


    and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he


    cannot

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)

    "I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and
    the daughter in law against her mother in law.


    And a

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    man's foes shall be they of his own household." (Matthew 10:35-36)

    When one of his disciples requested time off for his father's funeral,


    Jesus

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    rebuked him: "Let the dead bury their dead." (Matthew 8:22)

    Jesus never used the word "family." He never married or fathered


    children.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    To his own mother, he said, "Woman, what have I to do with thee?" (John


    19:28)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    What Were His Views On Equality And Social Justice? Jesus encouraged the beating of slaves: "And
    that servant [slave], which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did
    according to


    his

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    will, shall be beaten with many stripes." (Luke 12:47) He never


    denounced

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    servitude, incorporating the master-slave relationship into many of his parables.

    He did nothing to alleviate poverty. Rather than sell some expensive ointment to help the poor,
    Jesus wasted it on himself, saying, "Ye have


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    poor with you always." (Mark 14:3-7)

    No women were chosen as disciples or invited to the Last Supper.

    What Moral Advice Did Jesus Give? "There be eunuchs which have made themselves eunuchs for the
    kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."


    (Matthew

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    19:12) Some believers, including church father Origen, took this verse literally and castrated
    themselves. Even metaphorically, this advice is


    in

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    poor taste.

    a.. If you do something wrong with your eye or hand, cut/pluck it off

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    b.. Marrying a divorced woman is adultery. (Matthew 5:32)
    c.. Don't plan for the future. (Matthew 6:34)
    d.. Don't save money. (Matthew 6:19-20)
    e.. Don't become wealthy. (Mark 10:21-25)
    f.. Sell everything and give it to the poor. (Luke 12:33)
    g.. Don't work to obtain food. (John 6:27)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    i.. Make people want to persecute you. (Matthew 5:11)
    j.. Let everyone know you are better than the rest. (Matthew 5:13-16)
    k.. Take money from those who have no savings and give it to rich investors. (Luke 19:23-26)
    l.. If someone steals from you, don't try to get it back. (Luke 6:30)
    m.. If someone hits you, invite them to do it again. (Matthew 5:39)
    n.. If you lose a lawsuit, give more than the judgment. (Matthew 5:40)
    o.. If someone forces you to walk a mile, walk two miles. (Matthew


    19:29)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    p.. If anyone asks you for anything, give it to them without question. (Matthew 5:42) Is this
    wise? Is this what you would teach your children?

    Was Jesus Reliable? Jesus told his disciples that they would not die before his second


    coming:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they


    see

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the Son of man coming in his kingdom" (Matthew 16:28). "Behold, I come quickly." (Revelation
    3:11) It's been 2,000 years, and believers are


    still

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    waiting for his "quick" return.

    He mistakenly claimed that the mustard seed is "the least of all seeds" (Matt. 13:32), and that
    salt could "lose its savour" (Matthew 5:13).

    Jesus said that whoever calls somebody a "fool" shall be in danger of


    hell

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    fire (Matthew 5:22), yet he called people "fools" himself (Matthew


    19:30).

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Regarding his own truthfulness, Jesus gave two conflicting opinions: "If


    I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    bear witness of myself, my witness is not true" (John 5:31), and "Though


    I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    bear record of myself, yet my record is true" (John 8:14).

    Was Jesus A Good Example? He irrationally cursed a fig tree for being fruitless out of season


    (Matthew

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    21:18-19, and Mark 11:13-14). He broke the law by stealing corn on the Sabbath (Mark 2:23), and
    he encouraged his disciples to take a horse


    without

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    asking permission (Matthew 21).

    The "humble" Jesus said that he was "greater than the temple" (Matt


    19:31),

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "greater than Jonah" (Matthew 12:41), and "greater than Solomon"


    (Matthew

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    12:42). He appeared to suffer from a dictator's "paranoia" when he said,


    "He

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that is not with me is against me" (Matthew 12:30).

    Why Jesus? Although other verses can be cited that portray Jesus in a different


    light,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    they do not erase the disturbing side of his character. The conflicting passages, however, prove
    that the New Testament is contradictory.

    The "Golden Rule" had been said many times by earlier religious leaders. (Confucius: "Do not
    unto others that you would not have them do unto


    you."😉

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Turn the other cheek" encourages victims to invite further violence.


    "Love

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    thy neighbor" applied only to fellow believers. (Neither the Jews nor


    Jesus

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    showed much love to foreign religions). A few of the Beatitudes


    ("Blessed

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    are the peacemakers"😉 are acceptable, but they are all conditions of


    future

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    reward, not based on respect for human life or values.

    On the whole, Jesus said little that was worthwhile. He introduced


    nothing

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    new to ethics (except hell). He instituted no social programs. Being "omniscient," he could have
    shared some useful science or medicine, but


    he

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    appeared ignorant of such things (as if his character were merely the invention of writers stuck
    in the first century).

    Many scholars are doubtful of the historical existence of Jesus. Albert Schweitzer said, "The
    historical Jesus will be to our time a stranger


    and an

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    enigma." No first-century writer confirms the Jesus story. The New


    Testament

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    is internally contradictory and contains historical errors. The story is filled with miracles
    and other outrageous claims. Consisting mostly of material borrowed from pagan religions, the
    Jesus story appears to be


    cut

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    from the same fabric as all other myths and fables.

    Why is Jesus so special?

    Jesus answers as written in John 14:

    6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to


    the

    Quoted message said:

    Father except through me..."

    Quoted message said:

    It would be more reasonable and productive to emulate real, flesh-and-blood human beings who
    have contributed to humanity--mothers who have given birth, scientists who have alleviated
    suffering, social reformers who have fought injustice--than to worship a character of such
    dubious qualities as Jesus.

    I prefer the truth.

    It's there in front of you.

    Quoted message said:

    Humbly,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

  8. "wholey_smoke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> Jesus never used the word "family." He never married or fathered


    children.

    Quoted message said:

    To his own mother, he said, "Woman, what have I to do with thee?" (John 2:4)<<<

    This is a bit part of verses. Jesus was talking to His mother who was calling on Him to resolve the
    problem of them running out of wine. He told her that 'His hour had not yet come'. He would have
    known that miracles in the wrong place would have been wasted and out of context. His mother will
    also have known who He was and that a time would come when she would see Him perform the miracles
    she knew would happen.

    If you go back and read it in context you will notice that it is the sigh of a man who knows that
    His mother knows who _He_ is and what wonders He can do. All miracles are ageless and have lessons
    for each generation. Jesus wasn't anti-women at all, far from it.

    Those who want to read more will find it in John Chapter 2 (John 2) Verse 3-4 , where you can read
    it in context.

    "When the hour had come, He sat down, and the twelve apostles with Him." Luke 22:14

    You see, when His hour did come, 'He knew because He knew all things to come'.

    Carol T

  9. "wholey_smoke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>.. .

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>>>> Was Jesus Peaceable And Compassionate?


    The birth of Jesus was heralded with "Peace on Earth," yet Jesus said, "Think not that I am come
    to send peace: I came not to send peace but a sword." (Matthew 10:34) "He that hath no sword, let
    him sell his garment, and buy one." (Luke 22:36) "But those mine enemies, which would not that I
    should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." (Luke 19:27. In a parable, but
    spoken of favorably.)<<<<<<<<<<

    Peace comes with a price; like a fruitful tree the bad bits have to be pruned out so that it can
    grow gloriously and produce great generations. God knows that Satan cannot be reasoned with, or
    trusted, and that his forces only know violence as a way to win people over. Therefore only by what
    they know to fear should they stand broken and obedient. It's only then, if any are still to be
    saved, they will come to understand the message in the Word of God.

    Hence, Jesus was honest and told people how it was to be with the world.

    Carol T

  10. "wholey_smoke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>>>> The burning of unbelievers during the Inquisition was based


    on the words of

    Quoted message said:

    Jesus: "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather
    them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:6)


    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine,
    neither can you, unless you abide in
    Me." John 15:4

    This was a message to _you_ personally, to your children, their children, and your
    neighbours children.

    What _fruit_ are you bearing for your own branch? If it is not good for God's children why would you
    want to be a part of their tree? Isn't it better to cut off those branches which bear rotten fruits
    which sap the goodness out of young fruit?

    Any killing during the Inquisition was not done by people who were part of the vine, but those who
    wanted power and importance for 'themselves'. They did not know who their neighbours were, therefore
    could not have been Christian's.

    Carol T

  11. "wholey_smoke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> Jesus looked at his critics "with anger" (Mark 3:5), and


    attacked merchants with a whip (John 2:15). He showed his respect for life by drowning innocent
    animals (Matthew 8:32). He refused to heal a sick child until he was

    Quoted message said:

    pressured by the mother (Matthew 15:22-28).<<<<<<<<<<<<

    Who challenges Who over what is and isn't work on a Sabbath? ............. Mark 3:5, this is a
    challenge to men's audacity at interpreting The laws of God wrongly.

    He drove them out of the temple along with the animals with a whip he made out of cord. How else are
    they to be treated, that they had the audacity to stand in a house of God and do what they were
    doing? Evil does not understand reasoning. Dispelled from His Father's house with the fear 'they
    understand' meant that they would never return, and the body of the church can be rebuilt without
    its rotten core.

    This is a lesson for all the churches of all time; the work inside them is for our Father alone.

    As for the sick child whose mother sought healing....Parent's who
    have children 'vexed by the devil' (or demons) even in today's world
    cannot have their children healed by God until the parent understands.

    If parent's make The Word of God unworthy to their children they will allow the demons in through
    their own lack of faith.

    Even a dog is worthy of bread from under the table, so why aren't our children worthy of the Lord's
    bread if we love them more than our animals?

    "Then Jesus answered and said to her, "O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you
    desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour. (Mat 15:28 NKJ)

    How great is your faith to save your children and the children around you from the demons which make
    them sick and take their childhood away?

    Carol T

  12. "wholey_smoke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And if thy hand offend


    thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go
    into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched." (Mark 9:43)<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    The body in Christ hurts when it cuts off one of it's parts, but it saves the rest of its body from
    the silently insidious nature of evil.

    Carol T

  13. "wholey_smoke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>>>>> Did Jesus Promote "Family Values"?


    "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren,
    and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    This is true, the distance between God and the love for your yourself, parents, spouse and children
    is so great that in comparison man can only understand it as hate. If called a disciple of Jesus'
    will go and not look back.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>>> "I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and


    the daughter

    Quoted message said:

    against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be
    they of his own household." (Matthew 10:35-36)<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    This is true, so powerful will the love of Christ be that those in His presents will challenge those
    who have become Christian's rather than face their own sin before Him. (as you do now) Jesus told
    the truth so that we would know and understand the battles and minds of men.

    Carol T

  14. "wholey_smoke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    When one of his disciples requested time off for his father's funeral, Jesus rebuked him: "Let the
    dead bury their dead." (Matthew 8:22)

    They cannot have tended to their family needs and been a disciple of Jesus, their love of Him had to
    be more powerful than all things.

    Carol T

  15. "wholey_smoke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Was Jesus Peaceable And Compassionate?

    Quoted message said:

    What Were His Views On Equality And Social Justice? Jesus encouraged the beating of slaves: "And
    that servant [slave], which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according
    to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes." (Luke 12:47) He never denounced servitude,
    incorporating the master-slave relationship into many of his parables.<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    This is a part of a parable about making preparation as servants of The Lord. Jesus was not
    advocating any method's used in His day, simply utilising how people behaved at that time to press
    home a message. If you are prepared for Him at all times then you will have your just rewards for
    the work you do as a steward/servant of His household.

    He didn't need to tell them physical violence was wrong against another human being as He made it
    clear what the second Commandment was.

    Carol T

  16. "wholey_smoke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>>> He did nothing to alleviate poverty. Rather than sell some


    expensive

    Quoted message said:

    ointment to help the poor, Jesus wasted it on himself, saying, "Ye have the poor with you always."
    (Mark 14:3-7)<<<<<<<<<<<

    Jesus has done more to relieve poverty than any other human being on earth. She gave to God
    unconditionally what was precious to her because she loved Jesus. It was not His place to stop her
    anointing Him so that he could sell it. Jesus was not in the practice of taking to give, only in
    teaching people to give unconditionally. The poor have always been with the church and though the
    body of the Christian church people have given and given since the day Jesus died.

    Does the devil part with his spoils to feed the poor?

    Carol T

    Quoted message said:


    No women were chosen as disciples or invited to the Last Supper.

    What Moral Advice Did Jesus Give? "There be eunuchs which have made themselves eunuchs for the
    kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." (Matthew
    19:12) Some believers, including church father Origen, took this verse literally and castrated
    themselves. Even metaphorically, this advice is in poor taste.

    a.. If you do something wrong with your eye or hand, cut/pluck it off

    Quoted message said:

    b.. Marrying a divorced woman is adultery. (Matthew 5:32)
    c.. Don't plan for the future. (Matthew 6:34)
    d.. Don't save money. (Matthew 6:19-20)
    e.. Don't become wealthy. (Mark 10:21-25)
    f.. Sell everything and give it to the poor. (Luke 12:33)
    g.. Don't work to obtain food. (John 6:27)

    Quoted message said:

    i.. Make people want to persecute you. (Matthew 5:11)
    j.. Let everyone know you are better than the rest. (Matthew 5:13-16)
    k.. Take money from those who have no savings and give it to rich investors. (Luke 19:23-26)
    l.. If someone steals from you, don't try to get it back. (Luke 6:30)
    m.. If someone hits you, invite them to do it again. (Matthew 5:39)
    n.. If you lose a lawsuit, give more than the judgment. (Matthew 5:40)
    o.. If someone forces you to walk a mile, walk two miles. (Matthew 5:41)
    p.. If anyone asks you for anything, give it to them without question. (Matthew 5:42) Is this
    wise? Is this what you would teach your children?

    Was Jesus Reliable? Jesus told his disciples that they would not die before his second coming:
    "There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming
    in his kingdom" (Matthew 16:28). "Behold, I come quickly." (Revelation 3:11) It's been 2,000
    years, and believers are still waiting for his "quick" return.

    He mistakenly claimed that the mustard seed is "the least of all seeds" (Matt. 13:32), and that
    salt could "lose its savour" (Matthew 5:13).

    Jesus said that whoever calls somebody a "fool" shall be in danger of hell fire (Matthew 5:22),
    yet he called people "fools" himself (Matthew 23:17).

    Regarding his own truthfulness, Jesus gave two conflicting opinions: "If I bear witness of myself,
    my witness is not true" (John 5:31), and "Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true"
    (John 8:14).

    Was Jesus A Good Example? He irrationally cursed a fig tree for being fruitless out of season
    (Matthew
    21:18-19, and Mark 11:13-14). He broke the law by stealing corn on the Sabbath (Mark 2:23), and he
    encouraged his disciples to take a horse without asking permission (Matthew 21).

    The "humble" Jesus said that he was "greater than the temple" (Matt 12:6), "greater than Jonah"
    (Matthew 12:41), and "greater than Solomon" (Matthew
    12:42). He appeared to suffer from a dictator's "paranoia" when he said, "He that is not with me
    is against me" (Matthew 12:30).

    Why Jesus? Although other verses can be cited that portray Jesus in a different light, they do not
    erase the disturbing side of his character. The conflicting passages, however, prove that the New
    Testament is contradictory.

    The "Golden Rule" had been said many times by earlier religious leaders. (Confucius: "Do not unto
    others that you would not have them do unto you."😉 "Turn the other cheek" encourages victims to
    invite further violence. "Love thy neighbor" applied only to fellow believers. (Neither the Jews
    nor Jesus showed much love to foreign religions). A few of the Beatitudes ("Blessed are the
    peacemakers"😉 are acceptable, but they are all conditions of future reward, not based on respect
    for human life or values.

    On the whole, Jesus said little that was worthwhile. He introduced nothing new to ethics (except
    hell). He instituted no social programs. Being "omniscient," he could have shared some useful
    science or medicine, but he appeared ignorant of such things (as if his character were merely the
    invention of writers stuck in the first century).

    Many scholars are doubtful of the historical existence of Jesus. Albert Schweitzer said, "The
    historical Jesus will be to our time a stranger and an enigma." No first-century writer confirms
    the Jesus story. The New Testament is internally contradictory and contains historical errors. The
    story is filled with miracles and other outrageous claims. Consisting mostly of material borrowed
    from pagan religions, the Jesus story appears to be cut from the same fabric as all other myths
    and fables.

    Why is Jesus so special? It would be more reasonable and productive to emulate real, flesh-and-
    blood human beings who have contributed to humanity--mothers who have given birth, scientists who
    have alleviated suffering, social reformers who have fought injustice--than to worship a character
    of such dubious qualities as Jesus.

  17. "wholey_smoke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    No women were chosen as disciples or invited to the Last Supper.

    Women were not His disciples, it wouldn't have been fruitful for His body. Jesus did not devalue
    women, far from it.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>>>>>>>> What Moral Advice Did Jesus Give?


    "There be eunuchs which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is
    able to receive it, let him receive it." (Matthew
    19:12) <<<<<<<<<<<<

    There were men who loved Jesus so much that they no longer wanted the desires of men, they had no
    need of it. For God it is a great accolade. Do not feel sorry for them as they had/have so much more
    than you could ever know.

    Carol T

  18. "wholey_smoke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>>>>> Many scholars are doubtful of the historical existence of


    Jesus. Albert Schweitzer said, "The historical Jesus will be to our time a stranger and an enigma."
    No first-century writer confirms the Jesus story. <<<<<<<<<<<<<

    You might like to read some of the Dead Sea Scroll translations and their reference to the
    'Great Teacher'

    Cornelius Tacitus (55-120 AD), "the greatest historian" of ancient Rome: Gaius Suetonius
    Tranquillas, chief secretary of Emperor Hadrian (117-138 AD): Flavius Josephus (37-97 AD), court
    historian for Emperor Vespasian: Julius Africanus, writing around 221 AD, found a reference in the
    writings of Thallus, who wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean around 52 AD, which dealt with
    the darkness that covered the land during Jesus's crucifixion: Pliny the Younger, Roman governor of
    Bithynia in Asia Minor around 112 AD: Emperor Trajan, in reply to Pliny: Emporer Hadrian (117-138
    AD), in a letter to Minucius Fundanus, the Asian proconsul: The Jewish Talmud, compiled between 70
    and 200 AD: Lucian, a second century Greek satirist: Mara Bar-Serapion, of Syria, writing between 70
    and 200 AD from prison to motivate his son to emulate wise teachers of the past: GNOSTICS SOURCES
    The Gospel of Truth, probably by Valentius, around 135-160 AD: The Aprocryphon of John, probably by
    Saturninus, around 120-130 AD: The Gospel of Thomas, probably from 140-200 AD: The Treatise On
    Resurrection, by uncertain author of the late second century, to Rheginos: LOST WORKS QUOTED IN
    OTHER SOURCES Acts of Pontius Pilate, reports sent from Pilate to Tiberius, referred to by Justin
    Martyr (150 AD): Phlegon, born about 80 AD, as reported by Origen (185-254 AD), mentioned that Jesus
    made certain predictions which had been fulfilled. ANCIENT CHRISTIAN SOURCES (extra-biblical)
    Clement, elder of Rome, letter to the Corinthian church (95 AD): Ignatius, bishop of Antioch, letter
    to the Trallians (110-115 AD): Ignatius, letter to the Smyrneans (110-115 AD): Ignatius, letter to
    the Magnesians (110-115 AD): Quadratus, to Emperor Hadrian about 125 AD: (Pseudo-)Barnabas, written
    130-138 AD: Justin Martyr, to Emperor Antoninus Pius about 150 AD: Justin Martyr, in Dialogue with
    Trypho, around 150 AD:

    carlislecofc.orgextrabiblical.htm

    Also if you have not read it Psalm 22

    Carol T

  19. [email hidden] (Pete C.) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>>>> This really belongs in a religion group, not


    sci.med.cardiology but

    Quoted message said:

    since you posted - now you know why us Jews have and will never accept jesus as their "moshiach",
    for the reasons in your post and many others.<<<<<<<<<<<

    Look at your neighbours and know that those who are in their true faith have no need of a saviour.
    If you know of anyone, ask him/her who their neighbours are that they are above them and cannot see
    or relieve their pain or distress.

    Which Jewish child will be worthy to be called forward to bring peace and understanding to _all
    men_, that they will allow the Jews to rule over all others and the Nations through the respect and
    wisdom of God's ways? In which time is this saviour to come if it is not to be a time of illiteracy,
    when a record cannot have been made, or a time when imagery can stand in the way of love.

    How do the Jews fulfil their destiny whilst they deny it has its pathways?

    Carol T

  20. (Carol T) said:

    "wholey_smoke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>>>>>> Many scholars are doubtful of the historical existence of


    Jesus. Albert Schweitzer said, "The historical Jesus will be to our time a stranger and an enigma."
    No first-century writer confirms the Jesus story. <<<<<<<<<<<<<

    You might like to read some of the Dead Sea Scroll translations and their reference to the
    'Great Teacher'

    Even though biblical archaeology is one of my passions, can you explain to me what any of this
    thread has to do with cardiology?

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.