Water filters for backpacking

Judith said:

I'd appreciate any experience you can share.

Perhaps not what you're looking for, but at least in UK
hills my experience is they're not worth the bother, because
I don't have trouble drinking from burns. Much more
convenient, and I've a pretty large sample base of drinks
not to be worried from.

I did see the great Shock! Horror! Scandal water test in
Trail, but I think they're missing the point to some degree.
I've drunk out of river pools with fish living in them, and
if they support fish they also support a whole lot more
besides, certainly including bacteria, but since the water
is basically clean it's not a problem. But unless you have
no basic immunity to anything at all, having tried to
sterilise everything you drink or an unusual medical
condition, it should be well within your body's ability to
deal with it.

Other places, certainly some overseas, is a different
matter. I do have a Sweetwater filter I had for the USA but
lent it to a friend off to Africa a few years ago. Never
felt any great reason to ask for it back... So the executive
summary here is for people in a normal state of health in
upland UK you're probably spending money, carrying extra
weight and wasting time that's all unnecessary.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Peter Clinch said:

I've drunk out of river pools with fish living in them,
and if they support fish they also support a whole lot
more besides, certainly including bacteria, but since the
water is basically clean it's not a problem. But unless
you have no basic immunity to anything at all, having
tried to sterilise everything you drink or an unusual
medical condition, it should be well within your body's
ability to deal with it.

There is a significant(?) risk of liver fluke if there are
sheep around.

Chris said:

There is a significant(?) risk of liver fluke if there are
sheep around.

There are sheep around all across the UK. There are
significant numbers of walkers who don't filter water. This
is the first time I've heard anyone suggest liver flukes are
a problem from untreated water, so I suspect that it isn't
actually a big problem. According to google pond snails are
an intermediary, which AFAICT aren't a major feature of
running streams in hills, and the infection is picked up by
animals from plants near the water when grazing. Though I
certainly haven't done extensive research on how big a
problem it is. I'd be interested in further info if it
really is a problem.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Chris proteus1@gmxDOTnet said:

Peter Clinch said:

I've drunk out of river pools with fish living in them,
and if they support fish they also support a whole lot
more besides, certainly including bacteria,

<snip>

Quoted message said:

There is a significant(?) risk of liver fluke if there are
sheep around.

Significant? No. Risk? Always.

There's always "risk" of something baaa-d being out there,
shirley its a case using common sense and not losing sight
of the fact that we live around bacteria all of the time,
and not just every _waking_ minute ;-)

Re.: the original post, I have no experience of water
filters (except in an industrial sense ;-) but I'd agree
with the gist of Pete's post. If in [real] doubt you could
always use your iodine, boil it, or go thirsty for a wee
while. That said I'd be as interested in hearing experience
of others using filters [abroad?].

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
thenmc.org.ukindex.phpOpen ↗

NMC website: thenmc.org.ukthenmc.org.ukOpen ↗

Peter Clinch said:

I did see the great Shock! Horror! Scandal water test
in Trail, but I think they're missing the point to
some degree.

I think the Trail test served a purpose, albeit focussed.
IMHO there was a flaw in the design of their study (sic.)
in that they chose the obvious places where, with a little
thought, you wouldn't want to drink from. The factor
being, not the chances of the horrible icky countryside
dirtying that nice clean water, rather more along the
lines of what is the likelihood of human despoilation? The
greater the numbers of people likely to have frequented an
area the greater the likelihood of the surrounding water
being fouled.

IMHO the Trail test focussed on these areas.... mind you I
fully agree with them on that because they would want to
"warn" the average punter about the potential problems in
the most commonly visited places... the fact that the water
they sampled was so "dirty" illustrates perfectly that the
average punter needs warning about the dangers... else why
is the water so dirty in the first place?

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
thenmc.org.ukindex.phpOpen ↗

NMC website: thenmc.org.ukthenmc.org.ukOpen ↗

Steve said:

IMHO the Trail test focussed on these areas.... mind you I
fully agree with them on that because they would want to
"warn" the average punter about the potential problems in
the most commonly visited places...

Fair comment. Shame there was the front cover "you are
doomed" implying headline though...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Steve Orrell wrote

Quoted message said:

That said I'd be as interested in hearing experience of
others using filters [abroad?].

There's an interesting discussion about filtering water and
disease-causing nasties, particularly though not exclusively
giardia, at yosemite.orgGiardia.htmOpen ↗

It's quite long, so here are some potted highlights:

...Untreated Sierra Nevada water should be, almost
everywhere, safe to drink-if you "drink smart." If you don't
"drink smart" you may ingest diarrhea-causing organisms. But
it won't be Giardia....

...Our wilderness managers are in a position to educate the
outdoor public about the real culprit in the Giardia lamblia
story: inadequate human hygiene...

..."Given the casual approach to personal hygiene that
characterizes most backpacking treks, hand washing is likely
to be a much more useful preventative strategy than water
disinfection! This simple expedient, strictly enforced in
health care, child care, and food service settings, is
rarely mentioned in wilderness education materials."...

Now the Lake District isn't the Sierra Nevada and the way we
use our hills, and the pressure on them, is very different
from that in the US, but the thrust of the argument remains
valid: you're probably going to be OK if you apply some
common sense to where you get your water from. As Steve, and
others, have pointed out the need is to educate people as to
where they should get their water from and how their
'activities' in the hills might adversely affect others.

T.

Judith said:

I know this question crops up from time to time but
googling has raised more questions than it answers!

I would like to buy a water filter for use when
backpacking.

My criteria are:

1. Lightweight and small.
2. Usable throughput - ie I don't want to spend ages
generating half a cup of water.
3. "Better" than Iodine on its own, which is what I
use now.

The two that I am considering are the Pre Mac Travel Well
Pocket and the MSR WaterWorks EX filter. Does anyone have
practical experience of these?

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I'd appreciate any experience you can share.

Cheers Judith

You don't say what type of backpacking you are doing - high
mountainous areas or low/mid level trails.

There is always a risk, but in high areas, for healthy
people choosing their water source sensibly, it is reduced
to a very tiny level. Certainly on high and mid level
routes, we have never had any problems with streams in a
variety of landscapes, including rocky areas, peat moorland,
grassy mid-height hills etc. We just avoid tarns (and
streams issuing from them) in popular areas.

Back to your question, we have never tried those particular
filters and never use chemicals. We have a Katadyn filter
but very rarely take it, we keep it for lowish level trails
where there might be no other acceptable method (it's
usually easier to buy it in those cases as such routes often
pass near shops). The throughput is quite good provided you
keep the element clean and brush away any accumulation of
yuk regularly and pump some clean tap water through it
before the trip. It filters out all physical nasties and no
chemicals are necessary.

Don't know if it's any help but you could read our view of
it in our Wild Camping section at

v-g.me.ukv-g.me.ukOpen ↗

Regards

-- GeoffC

Peter Clinch said:

Quoted message said:

There is a significant(?) risk of liver fluke if there
are sheep around.

There are sheep around all across the UK. There are
significant numbers of walkers who don't filter water. This
is the first time I've heard anyone suggest liver flukes
are a problem from untreated water, so I suspect that it
isn't actually a big problem. According to google pond
snails are an intermediary, which AFAICT aren't a major
feature of running streams in hills, and the infection is
picked up by animals from plants near the water when
grazing. Though I certainly haven't done extensive research
on how big a problem it is. I'd be interested in further
info if it really is a problem.

*Significant* is probably the wrong word, which is why I
added the question mark. I first heard of liver fluke many
years ago, (pre-internet and Google!) when I was walking the
Pennine Way, backpacking. IIRC the effects of ingestion were
rather nasty, so it was an easy decision not to drink
untreated water, even if the risk was quite small. A search
now suggests it can result in unpleasant rather than fatal
results.
bbc.co.ukliver fluke.shtmlOpen ↗

However, I have rarely managed to get much higher than the
damned sheep can climb in this country, and I don't trust
them not to poo in or near streams! ;-

The message <[email hidden]>
from Chris <proteus1@gmxDOTnet> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

There is a significant(?) risk of liver fluke if there are
sheep around.

The old joke is that liver fluke is something that old
shepherds die from and as they lived to a ripe old age then
obviously there is no problem. On a more serious note i
would totally agree with Pete that all running water from
upland areas in Scotland is perfectly safe to drink. My own
rule of thumb is that i must be above the level of local
farm buidings as i am wary of chemical run off from farms as
farmers use some very dodgy chemicals.

--
Len Trim [email hidden]

I have used the MSR filter for a while now and have found it
very reliable. As a rule I would use it whenever you are
taking water from a source that is lower than sheep/cattle.

That you can directly screw the MSR into a Nalogene bottle
is not that important as the hose feed can take water from
any vesel. I usually filter the water directly into a
platypus with drinking hose or a platypus water carrier -
the versions with the top that opens (the big zip?) which
can easily accommodate the shape of the MSR filter. Using
this system you can load up a container with water and then
filter it later.

I used mine extensively in the Pyrenees last summer
(remember how hot it was). On a couple of occasions I found
myself making unscheduled wild camps high in the hill where
I could only find the beginning trickle of streams. No doubt
the water here was pure but it was impossible to get at it
without it being very dirty. A couple of times I also took
water from lakes where there were a lot of sheep.

Of course, filtering dirty water means your filter gets
dirty, but it is pretty easy to clean with a damp cloth.

The MSR also claims to be a fast filter in that it draws
water on both up and strokes of the lever (or something like
that). It does take a while to filter a couple of litres but
then when you need that water ....

--
Andy Howell Birmingham, UK

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:49:42 +0100, GeoffC <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Don't know if it's any help but you could read our view of
it in our Wild Camping section at

v-g.me.ukv-g.me.ukOpen ↗

Yes, it's very handy. Good site. Thanks.

Judith

Andy Howell said:

I have used the MSR filter for a while now and have found
it very reliable. As a rule I would use it whenever you are
taking water from a source that is lower than sheep/cattle.

So, do you always carry it - just in case? Or do you only
take it when you're going to an unknown area or to
somewhere, as you say, below the sheep/cattle line?

The MSR filter looks like it would do the job but, as other
people have said, I've drunk from many streams and don't
seem to be suffering any ill-effects. I'm not very fit, so
adding a filter to my pack may mean that I can't make it up
to the higher hills and the cleaner water!

Judith.

Judith said:

Andy Howell said:

I have used the MSR filter for a while now and have found
it very reliable. As a rule I would use it whenever you
are taking water from a source that is lower than
sheep/cattle.

So, do you always carry it - just in case? Or do you only
take it when you're going to an unknown area or to
somewhere, as you say, below the sheep/cattle line?

The MSR filter looks like it would do the job but, as other
people have said, I've drunk from many streams and don't
seem to be suffering any ill-effects. I'm not very fit, so
adding a filter to my pack may mean that I can't make it up
to the higher hills and the cleaner water!

Why not go for aquamira? No taste and as light as iodine.
giardiaclub.comindex.phpOpen ↗
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the
"Westminster Gasworks"

Judith said:

So, do you always carry it - just in case? Or do you only
take it when you're going to an unknown area or to
somewhere, as you say, below the sheep/cattle line?

I didn't know we had a sheep line in the UK. There's always
sheep on top of Snowdon. How about Ben Nevis?

Paul
--
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukwildwales.fsnet.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

Paul Saunders said:

Judith said:

So, do you always carry it - just in case? Or do you only
take it when you're going to an unknown area or to
somewhere, as you say, below the sheep/cattle line?

I didn't know we had a sheep line in the UK. There's always
sheep on top of Snowdon. How about Ben Nevis?

No, deer. Again the biggest problem is people.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the
"Westminster Gasworks"

Peter Clinch said:

Perhaps not what you're looking for, but at least in UK
hills my experience is they're not worth the bother,
because I don't have trouble drinking from burns.

Agreed.

Quoted message said:

Much more convenient, and I've a pretty large sample base
of drinks not to be worried from.

Same here.

You do have to apply some common sense, some water can be
dodgy - near old industrial workings for example, or in
low lying areas with farmland above, but on the whole
there's little to worry about if you're careful. Even the
odd dead sheep upstream isn't likely to kill you (well I'm
still here).

Just drink from the fast flowing stuff and avoid the scum.

Paul
--
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukwildwales.fsnet.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

On 13/4/04 7:54 pm, in article [email hidden],

Judith said:

So, do you always carry it - just in case? Or do you only
take it when you're going to an unknown area or to
somewhere, as you say, below the sheep/cattle line?

No I don't always carry it but do so when I am going to be
(possibly) needing supplies of new water (as in the
Pyrenees) or when wild camping.

Everyone drinks out of streams occasionally but if I was
going to be doing this very regularly then I would take it.
The filter doesn't really weigh that much at all.

--
Andy Howell Birmingham, UK

On 13/4/04 7:54 pm, in article [email hidden],

Judith said:

So, do you always carry it - just in case? Or do you only
take it when you're going to an unknown area or to
somewhere, as you say, below the sheep/cattle line?

Thinking about this - if you think a filter might just help
your peace of mind then seriously think about one. I see
you've just been wild camping in North Wales - I suspect if
I was doing this for a few days I would use my filter but
then there are others that wouldn¹t' .....

--
Andy Howell Birmingham, UK