Weight and the scientific method

[email hidden] (Fritz M) wrote in news:2c505724.0409261310.1b9191b9
@posting.google.com:

Quoted message said:

Because I do not trust the epistomology of the Internet, in the spirit
of Galileo and his famous cannon ball experiment I decided to test the
hypothesis myself. Does weight have an effect on your bicycle speed?

Read your history book again. Galileo never dropped a cannonball off the
leaning tower of Pisa. Any scientist will tell you that gravity is not the
only force applied to a falling ball. Any cyclist will tell you that air
friction is one of the most important forces. Air friction affects smaller
cyclists much more than bigger ones.

Ken said:

Galileo never dropped a cannonball off the
leaning tower of Pisa.

*chortle*

You don't really believe I stuffed rocks into my shorts, do you?

RFM

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Ken said:

Galileo never dropped a cannonball off the
leaning tower of Pisa.

*chortle*

You don't really believe I stuffed rocks into my shorts, do you?

That depends. Were you on your way to a singles bar?

;-)

Rick

Java Man said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You don't really believe I stuffed rocks into my shorts, do you?

That depends. Were you on your way to a singles bar?

Better than a cucumber wrapped in tinfoil, especially if you have to go
through airport security.

(spologies to anyone who hasn't seen "This Is Spinal Tap"😉

(Fritz M) said:

Ken said:

Galileo never dropped a cannonball off the
leaning tower of Pisa.

*chortle*

You don't really believe I stuffed rocks into my shorts, do you?

If you had claimed it was only 20 kg of rocks I would have believed
you, but 22 kg is obviously impossible.

Of course, to verify your results you need to repeat the experiment,
but carrying the rocks on the *uphill* leg.

--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply to: [email hidden])

Ray Heindl said:

(Fritz M) said:

Ken said:

Galileo never dropped a cannonball off the
leaning tower of Pisa.

*chortle*

You don't really believe I stuffed rocks into my shorts, do you?

If you had claimed it was only 20 kg of rocks I would have believed
you, but 22 kg is obviously impossible.

Of course, to verify your results you need to repeat the experiment,
but carrying the rocks on the *uphill* leg.

I thought he already had two rocks in his pants.
How dos one determine which one of the legs is uphill?
Wouldn't that make him really lopsided if he only had rocks in one leg?
--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Fritz M said:

Several weeks ago, in discussion about 70 mph speeds during the TdF,
Mr. Peter Chisholm opined:

Quoted message said:

weight means nothing as everything accelerates at the same rate
as affected by gravity.

Several people followed up, explaining that weight does indeed have an
impact on your speed on a bicycle.

Because I do not trust the epistomology of the Internet, in the spirit
of Galileo and his famous cannon ball experiment I decided to test the
hypothesis myself. Does weight have an effect on your bicycle speed?

To keep everything as constant as possible, I used myself and my road
bike as the subject of my experiment. I rode up Trail Ridge Road in
Rocky Mountain National Park yesterday, Saturday September 25.

Going to Rainbow curve, it was me, my bike, and two 20 oz water
bottles filled with water. It took me 110 minutes to travel the 12
miles to Rainbow Curve from the Fall River entrance station. (The road
was closed at Rainbow Curve, but bikes and peds are permitted so I
kept going a little ways until I reached my goal of 11,000 feet
elevation.)

About a mile above Rainbow Curve I filled my water bottles with
gravel. I stuffed rocks into my jersey pockets and pushed rocks down
into my shorts. (Do not try this at home, kids. I'm a trained
professional, but removing anything from a U.S. national park is a
federal offense.) I was able to add approximately 22 kilograms of
mass.

My return trip from Rainbow Curve to the entrance - still 12 miles -
took 20 minutes. Adding 22 kg had a dramatic effect on my speed on the
bike.

CONCLUSION: I have empirically determined that there is a positive
correlation between increased mass and increased bike speed. To go
fast, get a beefier bike.

DISCUSSION ITEM: Some will no doubt claim that 2500 foot elevation
difference between the Fall River entrance and Rainbow Curve will have
an impact on my velocity. These detractors forget that the decreased
air resistance from increased elevation occurs on both arrival and
return legs of my trip.

RFM

When I coast down the big hill on my way home, I have noticed that if my
panniers are full of purchased groceries or other goodies, I speed a lot
faster and coast a much longer distance after the hill.

So, I would agree with your observations. More weight gives more speed
in downhill coasting or light pedaling.

Both the sense of speed and the distance coasted are in agreement with
your observations.

Jim Buch

--
................................

Keepsake gift for young girls.
Unique and personal one-of-a-kind.
Builds strong minds 12 ways.
Guaranteed satisfaction
- courteous money back
- keep bonus gifts

http://www.alicebook.com

"Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:41587716.0@entanet...

Quoted message said:

Java Man said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You don't really believe I stuffed rocks into my shorts, do you?

That depends. Were you on your way to a singles bar?

Better than a cucumber wrapped in tinfoil, especially if you have to go
through airport security.

(spologies to anyone who hasn't seen "This Is Spinal Tap"😉

Smell the glove

Kids who enter the Pinebox Derby competition know that you must weight the
car to the maximum allowed by the rules to be competitive.

Leo Lichtman said:

Kids who enter the Pinebox Derby competition know that you must weight the
car to the maximum allowed by the rules to be competitive.

Dear Leo,

An immortal line bears repeating:

"I might remind you both I did design that racer--the driver
is essentially ballast."

--Martin Prince explaining the secrets of "The Honor Roller"
in the Simpsons episode "Saturdays of Thunder"

Carl Fogel

(Fritz M) said:

Several weeks ago, in discussion about 70 mph speeds during the TdF,
Mr. Peter Chisholm opined:

Quoted message said:

weight means nothing as everything accelerates at the same rate
as affected by gravity.

Several people followed up, explaining that weight does indeed have an
impact on your speed on a bicycle.

Because I do not trust the epistomology of the Internet, in the spirit
of Galileo and his famous cannon ball experiment I decided to test the
hypothesis myself. Does weight have an effect on your bicycle speed?

To keep everything as constant as possible, I used myself and my road
bike as the subject of my experiment. I rode up Trail Ridge Road in
Rocky Mountain National Park yesterday, Saturday September 25.

Going to Rainbow curve, it was me, my bike, and two 20 oz water
bottles filled with water. It took me 110 minutes to travel the 12
miles to Rainbow Curve from the Fall River entrance station. (The road
was closed at Rainbow Curve, but bikes and peds are permitted so I
kept going a little ways until I reached my goal of 11,000 feet
elevation.)

About a mile above Rainbow Curve I filled my water bottles with
gravel. I stuffed rocks into my jersey pockets and pushed rocks down
into my shorts. (Do not try this at home, kids. I'm a trained
professional, but removing anything from a U.S. national park is a
federal offense.) I was able to add approximately 22 kilograms of
mass.

My return trip from Rainbow Curve to the entrance - still 12 miles -
took 20 minutes. Adding 22 kg had a dramatic effect on my speed on the
bike.

CONCLUSION: I have empirically determined that there is a positive
correlation between increased mass and increased bike speed. To go
fast, get a beefier bike.

DISCUSSION ITEM: Some will no doubt claim that 2500 foot elevation
difference between the Fall River entrance and Rainbow Curve will have
an impact on my velocity. These detractors forget that the decreased
air resistance from increased elevation occurs on both arrival and
return legs of my trip.

Excellent work Fritz. It's good to finally see some actual science applied to
these machines.

That other poster was right, you neglected aerodynamic effects. Going downhill
your body was tilted forward giving less frontal area and a more aerodynamic
shape. Just like a sports car lower in the front. Going uphill you had a higher
profile with yourself and bike tilted back as you were. It seems subtle, I know,
but we must be precise. Next time ride up the hill with a 650C wheel in front
and down with a 700C, that should compensate for the tilting.

Ron

RonSonic said:

Going uphill you had a higher
profile with yourself and bike tilted back as you were. It seems subtle, I know,
but we must be precise. Next time ride up the hill with a 650C wheel in front
and down with a 700C, that should compensate for the tilting.

Ah, excellent point. Because 80% of a cyclist's effort is put into
overcoming air resistance, my frontal profile could indeed have a
dramatic effect on my speed. I'm afraid I missed Ken's subtlety when
he stated the same thing, for which I apologize.

It occurs to me that the rocks in my shorts will also change my
aerodynamic profile.

RFM

RonSonic said:

Excellent work Fritz. It's good to finally see some actual science applied to
these machines.

I'm a little concerned about the apocryphal nature
of the cannonball story, as well as the lack of a
statistically significant sample size in Fritz's
experiment. I think the only way to garner truly
valid results is to run these experiments in
freefall, and repeat the trials until I can attain
a 95% confidence interval. Fortunately, I work in
a ten-story office building. What I intend to do
is ride my bike off the roof of the building and
record the total time of descent, both with and
without rocks stuffed in my shorts.

My findings will be submitted for peer review and
potential journal publication, perhaps posthumously.

Larry Coon
University of California

RonSonic said:

Excellent work Fritz. It's good to finally see some actual science applied to
these machines.

I'm a little concerned about the apocryphal nature
of the cannonball story, as well as the lack of a
statistically significant sample size in Fritz's
experiment. I think the only way to garner truly
valid results is to run these experiments in
freefall, and repeat the trials until I can attain
a 95% confidence interval. Fortunately, I work in
a ten-story office building. What I intend to do
is ride my bike off the roof of the building and
record the total time of descent, both with and
without rocks stuffed in my shorts.

My findings will be submitted for peer review and
potential journal publication, perhaps posthumously.

Larry Coon
University of California