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Weight diff. Ksyrium and D-A + Open Pro/CXP wheels

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Cycling Equipment
Published
7 May 2004
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9 May 2004
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Derk
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  1. Hi,

    I'm considering to take 2 wheelsets with me on vacation.

    I am considering to take a pair of Ksyrium Elites with me
    and/or a wheelset of D-A 9S hubs with either Open Pro or
    CXP 33 rims.

    My first priority is cycling without visiting any
    repairshops if possible, but because I'll do a lot of
    climbing, I want a relatively leightweight wheelset that
    doesn't have to be trued all the time.

    I have a pair of D-A 9S hubs lying around here. Would an
    Open Pro wheelset be a good idea? Any ideas about this? What
    is the difference in weight between a 36 spoke D-A open Pro
    wheelset and a pair of ksyrium Elites?

    Thanks! Derk

  2. Derk-<< What is the difference in weight between a 36 spoke
    D-A open Pro wheelset and a pair of ksyrium Elites?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    <BR><BR>

    MUCH less than a full water bottle..Not really
    important...take the ones that are easiest to repair in case
    ya fall down or something-NOT the Elites...

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
    Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali
    costruite eccezionalmente bene"

  3. On Fri, 07 May 2004 11:13:59 +0200, Derk <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    My first priority is cycling without visiting any
    repairshops if possible, but because I'll do a lot of
    climbing, I want a relatively leightweight wheelset that
    doesn't have to be trued all the time.

    I have a pair of D-A 9S hubs lying around here. Would an
    Open Pro wheelset be a good idea? Any ideas about this?
    What is the difference in weight between a 36 spoke D-A
    open Pro wheelset and a pair of ksyrium Elites?

    Leave the Ksyrium's home. They are not readilly repaired on
    the road. A set of Open Pro rims with 36 holes, DA hubs, and
    15/16 swaged spokes will work fine. The build is everything.
    If built properly, you won't be truing the wheels hardly
    ever. Should you have a mishap, replacing a spoke or just
    riding with one spoke less works fine. On a 5 mi climb at 6%
    I'd doubt that the weight difference to the Ksyriums would
    produce 1 minute of difference for normal riders. Ultegra
    6500 hubs will build just as good a wheel. You will have
    difficulty finding Ultegra 6500 hubs in 36 holes.

    The CXP33s may be even stronger but I don't like them. I
    much prefer the Velocity Aerohead OC ahead of the CXP33
    and Open Pro.

  4. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by Derk
    Hi,

    I'm considering to take 2 wheelsets with me on vacation.

    I am considering to take a pair of Ksyrium Elites with me
    and/or a wheelset of D-A 9S hubs with either Open Pro or
    CXP 33 rims.

    My first priority is cycling without visiting any
    repairshops if possible, but because I'll do a lot of
    climbing, I want a relatively leightweight wheelset that
    doesn't have to be trued all the time.

    I have a pair of D-A 9S hubs lying around here. Would an
    Open Pro wheelset be a good idea? Any ideas about this? What
    is the difference in weight between a 36 spoke D-A open Pro
    wheelset and a pair of ksyrium Elites?

    Thanks! Derk

    Elite pair weighs 1,781 grams and a pair of 36 spoke DB 14/15 DURA ACE 9 speed, OpenPro, brass nipples weigh 1,964 grams.

  5. Paul Kopit said:

    Ultegra 6500 hubs will build just as good a wheel.
    You will have difficulty finding Ultegra 6500 hubs in
    36 holes.


    I already have a D-A hubset.....found it on sale, since it's
    the 9S version.

    Quoted message said:

    The CXP33s may be even stronger but I don't like them. I
    much prefer the Velocity Aerohead OC ahead of the CXP33
    and Open Pro.


    We can't get that here: it's Mavic....

    Thanks, Derk

  6. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The CXP33s may be even stronger but I don't like them.
    I much


    prefer

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the Velocity Aerohead OC ahead of the CXP33 and
    Open Pro.


    We can't get that here: it's Mavic....

    Mammoet (mammoet.nlmammoet.nl) in The Hague sells Velocity,
    maybe others aswell. They only list Deep V's in their
    webshop but they don't keep that up to date much. I've been
    there in the past and they had other types (Aeroheads) in
    stock also. Weightwise there's not much between Aerohead and
    Open Pro i think, the Open Pro's are a bit heavier but the
    Aeroheads need nipple washers so i guess that evens out the
    difference.

    "Derk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Paul Kopit said:

    Ultegra 6500 hubs will build just as good a wheel. You
    will have difficulty finding Ultegra 6500 hubs in 36
    holes.


    I already have a D-A hubset.....found it on sale, since
    it's the 9S


    version.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    The CXP33s may be even stronger but I don't like them.
    I much


    prefer

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the Velocity Aerohead OC ahead of the CXP33 and
    Open Pro.


    We can't get that here: it's Mavic....

    Thanks, Derk

  7. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Elite pair weighs 1,781 grams and a pair of 36 spoke DB
    14/15 DURA


    ACE 9

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    speed, OpenPro, brass nipples weigh 1,964 grams.


    200 grams is hardly worth taking the risk of not being
    able to use


    my bike

    Quoted message said:

    during my vacation, considering the difficulty one
    can expect


    if/when the

    Quoted message said:

    Ksyriums are damaged....THANKS!

    Plus, Mavic listed weights are generally without skewers.

    "Derk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    daveornee said:

    Elite pair weighs 1,781 grams and a pair of 36 spoke DB
    14/15 DURA


    ACE 9

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    speed, OpenPro, brass nipples weigh 1,964 grams.


    200 grams is hardly worth taking the risk of not being
    able to use


    my bike

    Quoted message said:

    during my vacation, considering the difficulty one
    can expect


    ig/when the

    Quoted message said:

    Ksyriums are damaged....THANKS!

    Derk

  8. Ronald said:

    Plus, Mavic listed weights are generally without skewers.


    So you think weight diff. is even less?

    Greets, Derk

  9. Derk said:

    I have a pair of D-A 9S hubs lying around here. Would an
    Open Pro wheelset be a good idea? Any ideas about this?
    What is the difference in weight between a 36 spoke D-A
    open Pro wheelset and a pair of ksyrium Elites?

    It depends on the kind of spokes you choose to use, but the
    Open Pro wheelset will almost certainly be lighter than a
    pair of Ksyrium Elites. Ksyrium Elites are about 1800 grams
    without quick-releases. The Open Pro wheelset would be less
    than 1600 grams with light spokes. Especially for the front
    wheel, there's really no reason not to use even the lightest
    spokes like DT Revolution and Sapim Laser.

    -as

  10. Derk <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi,

    I'm considering to take 2 wheelsets with me on vacation.

    I am considering to take a pair of Ksyrium Elites with me
    and/or a wheelset of D-A 9S hubs with either Open Pro or
    CXP 33 rims.

    My first priority is cycling without visiting any
    repairshops if possible, but because I'll do a lot of
    climbing, I want a relatively leightweight wheelset that
    doesn't have to be trued all the time.

    I have a pair of D-A 9S hubs lying around here. Would an
    Open Pro wheelset be a good idea? Any ideas about this?
    What is the difference in weight between a 36 spoke D-A
    open Pro wheelset and a pair of ksyrium Elites?

    Thanks! Derk

    Hi, have you considered using Velocity rims? Take a look at
    the Aweroheads, Fusions, or Deep V. Here is the link:
    velocityusa.comvelocityusa.com I just ordered a set of wheels,
    using DA 9-speed hubs and Velocity Aerohead rims. I choose
    the Aeroheads, because they were quite light [400, 405g] and
    have a good reputation. I weigh around 156lbs, for a heavier
    rider, the Deep V is supposed to be very strong. This info
    is based on research, but no personal experience, so it is
    of limited value. Could be a good starting point.

    Life is Good! Jeff

  11. Paul Kopit said:
    Derk said:

    My first priority is cycling without visiting any
    repairshops if possible, but because I'll do a lot of
    climbing, I want a relatively leightweight wheelset that
    doesn't have to be trued all the time.

    I have a pair of D-A 9S hubs lying around here. Would an
    Open Pro wheelset be a good idea? Any ideas about this?
    What is the difference in weight between a 36 spoke D-A
    open Pro wheelset and a pair of ksyrium Elites?

    Leave the Ksyrium's home. They are not readilly repaired
    on the road. A set of Open Pro rims with 36 holes, DA
    hubs, and 15/16 swaged spokes will work fine. The build is
    everything. If built properly, you won't be truing the
    wheels hardly ever. Should you have a mishap, replacing a
    spoke or just riding with one spoke less works fine. On a
    5 mi climb at 6% I'd doubt that the weight difference to
    the Ksyriums would produce 1 minute of difference for
    normal riders. Ultegra 6500 hubs will build just as good a
    wheel. You will have difficulty finding Ultegra 6500 hubs
    in 36 holes.

    The CXP33s may be even stronger but I don't like them. I
    much prefer the Velocity Aerohead OC ahead of the CXP33
    and Open Pro.

    Much of the weight difference in these lightweight wheels
    comes from the hubs. For example, I bet my Rolf Sestriere
    rims weigh at least as much as Open Pros, if not more. But
    the Hugi-made hubs are probably 200g lighter, with the
    rest of the weight savings coming from Ti skewers and
    fewer spokes.

    My Rolfs came with my bike and they're fine, but wouldn't be
    my first choice. Instead I'd probably choose Velocity
    Aerohead, Torelli Master, or Open Pro rims, 36 lightweight
    DB spokes, and "whatever" hub and skewer, from a good
    builder. Personally I don't think weight matters very much,
    but if weight is a consideration then Hugi or Chris King
    hubs are both lightweight and proven. I suppose the latest
    DA and Campy hubs are pretty light too. Note that even with
    such expensive components, custom-built wheels like these
    will still cost less (MSRP) than Ksyriums, Sestrieres, or
    other "hot" wheels du jour. They'll be built better, and
    won't require special parts or tools to fix, should that
    ever be necessary.

    Sometimes I can't believe I'm riding around on a supposed
    $800 set of wheels. It just seems silly. I've thought a lot
    about "cashing them in" on eBay and buying what I would
    really prefer, but so far they're holding up fine.

    Matt O.

  12. Derk said:

    I'll leave my cell phone at home and then my bike will
    weigh the same as when I would have used Ksyrium wheels.

    That's a pretty good tradeoff -- a cell phone for sturdier
    equipment! (So you won't need the cell phone.)

    Matt O.

  13. Derk said:

    I'm considering to take 2 wheelsets with me on vacation.

    Quoted message said:

    I have a pair of D-A 9S hubs lying around here. Would an
    Open Pro wheelset be a good idea? Any ideas about this?
    What is the difference in weight between a 36 spoke D-A
    open Pro wheelset and a pair of ksyrium Elites?

    Just take some spare spokes with you. I think you'll find
    out why you shouldn't have bought the ksyriums when you
    price the cost of a handful of spare spokes ...

    - Don Gillies San Diego, CA

  14. dave-<< Elite pair weighs 1,781 grams and a pair of 36 spoke
    DB 14/15 DURA ACE 9 speed, OpenPro, brass nipples weigh
    1,964 grams. >><BR><BR>

    Think ya need to actually weigh these things, on a scale. i
    don't believe any manufacturers weights...

    DA/Open Pro are much closer to 1700 grams..w/o
    skewers..which is dumb as well. All wheels should be
    weighed like ya ride them, w/o tires, with rim strip and
    skewers...

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
    Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali
    costruite eccezionalmente bene"

  15. daveornee said:

    Elite pair weighs 1,781 grams and a pair of 36 spoke DB
    14/15 DURA ACE 9 speed, OpenPro, brass nipples weigh
    1,964 grams.

    Not sure where you D-A numbers come from, but using
    published weights, a pair of wheels using Dura-Ace 9S hubs,
    36 15/16 spokes, brass nipples, Open Pro rims, and no
    skewers should be 1706g.

    According to Mavic, the Ksyrium Elites are 1770g
    without skewers.

    Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles Tullio's Big Dog Cyclery LaSalle,
    IL 815-223-1776 heronbicycles.comheronbicycles.com
    tullios.comtullios.com

  16. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Plus, Mavic listed weights are generally without
    skewers.


    So you think weight diff. is even less?

    Uhh, not in this case cause i see the 1781 grams mentioned
    is a measured weight, see: weightweenies.starbike.co-weightweenies.starbike.co-
    m/listings/components.php?type=roadwheels

    "Derk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Ronald said:

    Plus, Mavic listed weights are generally without
    skewers.


    So you think weight diff. is even less?

    Greets, Derk

  17. "Ronald" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Plus, Mavic listed weights are generally without
    skewers.


    So you think weight diff. is even less?

    Uhh, not in this case cause i see the 1781 grams mentioned
    is a measured


    weight, see:

    Quoted message said:

    weightweenies.starbike.comcomponents.php
    ?type=roadwheels


    But is this "1781g measured weight" with or without skewers?

  18. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by Qui Si Parla Ca
    dave-<< Elite pair weighs 1,781 grams and a pair of 36 spoke
    DB 14/15 DURA ACE 9 speed, OpenPro, brass nipples weigh
    1,964 grams. >><BR><BR>

    Think ya need to actually weigh these things, on a scale. i
    don't believe any manufacturers weights...

    DA/Open Pro are much closer to 1700 grams..w/o
    skewers..which is dumb as well. All wheels should be
    weighed like ya ride them, w/o tires, with rim strip and
    skewers...

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
    Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali
    costruite eccezionalmente bene"

    I acutally weighed them on a scale.
    Remeber that the DURA ACE Wheels have twice as many spokes and nipples as the Elites. And remeber that I weighed them with 36 DT Competition DB 14/15 spokes.
    Rims vary in weight and are usually heavier than specified.
    Shimano quotes hub weights without QR skewers. I weigh them with skewers but without rim strips. My scale weighs in grams and is pretty acurate. However, it isn't cetified. I think the relative weight difference gives a slight edge to the Elites in this instance.
    Less than 200 grams difference certainly would be hard to feel on the bicycle.

  19. On Fri, 07 May 2004 15:09:49 +0200, Derk <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    And one more important one: I have a D-A hubset here. Would
    you prefer Open Pro (lighter) or CXP 33 (bombproof rims) to
    build a wheelset with?

    I'd prefer the Open Pro. The valve stem sticks out better.
    The holes are offset and the bracing angle is better and
    you can get more tension in the Open Pro NDS spokes. The
    Open Pros cost a bit less as well even though they are not
    as pretty.

  20. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by Paul Kopit
    On Fri, 07 May 2004 15:09:49 +0200, Derk <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    And one more important one: I have a D-A hubset here. Would
    you prefer Open Pro (lighter) or CXP 33 (bombproof rims) to
    build a wheelset with?



    I'd prefer the Open Pro. The valve stem sticks out better.
    The holes are offset and the bracing angle is better and
    you can get more tension in the Open Pro NDS spokes. The
    Open Pros cost a bit less as well even though they are not
    as pretty.

    How did you determine that the bracing angle is better?
    My experience indicates they are within a 0.1 degree of being the same, with the CXP33 having 0.1 degree more... not something to "argue" about.
    What does "NDS" mean?
    I also would like to understand what you are referring to by "get more tension in the Open Pro NDS spokes".
    I have built and ride both. I don't see a significant difference other than looks and some internal design differences.
    I don't have a preference, but the eyelet socket design on the Open Pro seems to be a proven Mavic system that has worked well from MA-2 days and before. I guess I would say tha Open Pro is easier to build and spoke align at the nipple end.

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