Well OT: Election Guidelines

Tony B said:

Try these if you can't decided between liars or cheaters:

http://www.whoshouldyouvotefor.com/

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

interesting, eh what?

bfn,

Tony B

(No, not that one - stoopid!)

Whoops, sorry - meant to post to somewhere else - doh!!!

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 11:32:33 +0100, Tony B
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Try these if you can't decided between liars or cheaters:

Seen the Lib-Dem cycling manifesto?

http://www.libdems.org.uk/news/story.html?id=8486&navPage=news.html

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 11:32:33 +0100, Tony B
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

http://www.whoshouldyouvotefor.com/

Ooh! I'm voting for the right party :-)

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

Guy:

Quoted message said:

Seen the Lib-Dem cycling manifesto?

http://www.libdems.org.uk/news/story.html?id=8486&navPage=news.html

I was wavering between Lib and Lab, and now I think I've made my mind
up... :-)

d.

On 16/4/05 10:18 pm, in article [email hidden],

Just zis Guy said:

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 11:32:33 +0100, Tony B
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Try these if you can't decided between liars or cheaters:

Seen the Lib-Dem cycling manifesto?

http://www.libdems.org.uk/news/story.html?id=8486&navPage=news.html

Why do people keep promising technical solutions ('cycling environment'
sounds horribly like cycle paths) for social problems.

...d

On 17/4/05 12:50 pm, in article
[email hidden], "davek"

Quoted message said:

Guy:

Quoted message said:

Seen the Lib-Dem cycling manifesto?

http://www.libdems.org.uk/news/story.html?id=8486&navPage=news.html

I was wavering between Lib and Lab, and now I think I've made my mind
up... :-)

I'm probably going for the tactical vote..

...d

In message <[email hidden]>

David Martin said:

On 16/4/05 10:18 pm, in article [email hidden],

Just zis Guy said:

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 11:32:33 +0100, Tony B
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Try these if you can't decided between liars or cheaters:

Seen the Lib-Dem cycling manifesto?

http://www.libdems.org.uk/news/story.html?id=8486&navPage=news.html

Why do people keep promising technical solutions ('cycling environment'
sounds horribly like cycle paths) for social problems.

..d

The cycling environment could well include enforcement of speed limits and
action against dangerous driving etc.

--
CTC Right to Ride Representative for Richmond upon Thames

Paul Luton said:

The cycling environment could well include enforcement of speed limits and
action against dangerous driving etc.

These are politicians speaking. Probably means improving the cycling
environment that drivers have to occassionaly deal with i.e. get the
cyclists off the road ;-)

Tony

On 17/4/05 8:05 pm, in article [email hidden], "Paul

Luton said:

In message <[email hidden]>

David Martin said:

On 16/4/05 10:18 pm, in article [email hidden],

Just zis Guy said:

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 11:32:33 +0100, Tony B
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

> Try these if you can't decided between liars or cheaters:

Seen the Lib-Dem cycling manifesto?

http://www.libdems.org.uk/news/story.html?id=8486&navPage=news.html

Why do people keep promising technical solutions ('cycling environment'
sounds horribly like cycle paths) for social problems.

..d

The cycling environment could well include enforcement of speed limits and
action against dangerous driving etc.

Breathalysers did not change the drink drive rates by much. It was seen for
a whils as 'what you can get away with'. It was the changing social
attitudes, particularly amongst my generation, that altered social attitudes
to driving while intoxicated.

At present speed cameras etc are a technical solution to a social problem.
When people's attitutes change then we will see real progress.

Technical measures can, however, reinforce social change.

...d

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 11:32:33 +0100, Tony B
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Try these if you can't decided between liars or cheaters:

Seen the Lib-Dem cycling manifesto?

http://www.libdems.org.uk/news/story.html?id=8486&navPage=news.html

nice statement of wishes, but no mention of budget?

I must admit that I am somewhat confused: Tories invent NCSB and NuLab
abolishes it.

Quoted message said:

Seen the Lib-Dem cycling manifesto?

http://www.libdems.org.uk/news/story.html?id=8486&navPage=news.html

Is there any more?

The Liberal Democrat’s five point plan for cycling:

1.Create an environment which accommodates and supports cycling;
What on earth does this mean? Call me cynical but this is just
meaningless fluff unless there's some detail buried somewhere.

2.Improve integration of public transport with provision for cyclists;
More cycle racks is good, hoping they also mean more carrying of cycles
on PT too.

3.Encourage young people to cycle regularly;
Just young people? Why don't they knock VAT of bikes and then loads more
people would cycle.

4.Emphasise the health benefits of cycling for both adults and children
Good-good

5.Improve safety for cyclists and pedestrians.
Crikey, mandatory helmet laws for all. At least their being consistent.

Hmmm, a catchy five points, with one of them being meaningless fluff.
Sounds to me like they've seen the 22% fall and had a 5 minute
brainstorming session. Anyone know if they've really got a Plan, or am I
right to be cynical?

"Mark Thompson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

3.Encourage young people to cycle regularly;
Just young people? Why don't they knock VAT of bikes and then loads more
people would cycle.

Nice thought, but unfortunately bike price isn't the barrier you may think
it is.

cheers,
clive

On 2005-04-19, Mark Thompson <[email hidden]> wrote:

*schnip*

Quoted message said:

2.Improve integration of public transport with provision for cyclists;
More cycle racks is good, hoping they also mean more carrying of cycles
on PT too.

I am very impressed with the remodelled guard's van on the tarted-up GNER
electric trains. Proper cycle racks with straps and everything!

More please.

Regards,

-david

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

3.Encourage young people to cycle regularly;
Just young people? Why don't they knock VAT of bikes and then loads
more people would cycle.

Nice thought, but unfortunately bike price isn't the barrier you may
think it is.

What, even if we knocked nearly 20% off the price of a bike?

"Mark Thompson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

3.Encourage young people to cycle regularly;
Just young people? Why don't they knock VAT of bikes and then loads
more people would cycle.

Nice thought, but unfortunately bike price isn't the barrier you may
think it is.

What, even if we knocked nearly 20% off the price of a bike?

Yup, reckon so. 20% isn't that much. All that would happen is bike prices
would drop a bit, and people would merely buy the same cheap [censored] they
always have and not use it.

It does get to be a significant amount when you're looking at very nice
bikes, but when you're at that stage, you're already a cyclist. (or have
plently of money, in which case the discount is irrelevany).

cheers,
clive

Quoted message said:

Reducing a new bike from £60 to £50 won't make a vast difference. And
people will still consider £200 an outragous amount to pay. After all,
you can get a car for £300.

I'd be mildly surprised if a 17.5% price drop didn't result in a
significant rise in sales. I mean, what's the point of reducing last years
(wrong colour) models if that doesn't shift 'em quicker?

We keep recommending around £200 as what needs to be spent to get a decent
bike. Reducing it to £165 is a nice big drop and a greater proportion of
people would see it as less of an outrageous amount to pay.

Mark Thompson said:

I'd be mildly surprised if a 17.5% price drop didn't result in a
significant rise in sales. I mean, what's the point of reducing
last years (wrong colour) models if that doesn't shift 'em
quicker?

To shift it at all. Who would buy last year's model if this year's is
the same price?

--
Dave...

Mark Thompson <[email hidden]> wrote:

: We keep recommending around £200 as what needs to be spent to get a decent
: bike. Reducing it to £165 is a nice big drop and a greater proportion of
: people would see it as less of an outrageous amount to pay.

Sure. But my point is that someone who has committed to spending £200 on a
bike is already wanting to cycle. Reducing the rubbish from £60 to £50 won't
alter the opinion of those that currently don't cycle.

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
Don't get me wrong, perl is an OK operating system, but it lacks a
lightweight scripting language -- Walter Dnes

Quoted message said:

Sure. But my point is that someone who has committed to spending £200
on a bike is already wanting to cycle. Reducing the rubbish from £60
to £50 won't alter the opinion of those that currently don't cycle.

A £10 drop won't alter it much I agree, but lowering the price will move
better stuff into someones price range. Better stuff=more enjoyment=more
likely to carry on cycling, as well as more likely to be in budget in the
first place. Also, not everyone starts on a £60 bike.

X "I'm thinking about cycling to work. How much does a decent bike cost?"
Y "£200"
X "Ouch, out of my budget"

against:

X "I'm thinking about cycling to work. How much does a decent bike cost?"
Y "£165"
X "Just in budget"

This still works for your £60 down to £50 example.

Call me absolutely mad if you like, but I'd bet money that a 17.5% price
drop across the board will result in more bikes bought, and some of those
bikes might even be ridden.