What do with in lightning

"GSV Three Minds in a Can" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the wonderful
person Boo <boo@spam_me_no_spam.net> said

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Make yourself lower than your surroundings. In a ditch if necessary.

Actually I think ditches are a bad plan owing to the tendency for the
ground currents to pass through the contents of the ditch where it
interrupts the flow.

I think they're not a bad idea if you keep your feet together. Having a
ground current flow under you is not a big problem. Having it go up one
leg and down the other is. Even just a small part of it.

I'm sure I read somewhere that this sort of thing has killed cattle before
now. It appears that the resistance of a cow is less than that of the
ground between its feet, and so when lightning strikes the ground nearby the
current flows up one set of legs, and down the other.

Instant, well-done steak!!

Dave.

Iain Jones <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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I've just read Dan Bailey's lucky tail in Trail about being struck by
lightning a few months ago on The Cobbler. It occurred to me that if I
found myself up on a mountain in a thunderstorm I wouldn't know what to do.
Heck, it's even happened, last year on Ben Cruachan a noisy storm sounded
very close. Any advice?

There is excellent advice in eric langmuirs book on Mountain
Leadership. I've got a summary of it on my hillwalking blog - scroll
down to the entry called The Answer. This followed a discussion on the
forum after a walker was killed by lightning earlier this year.

http://bagger.typepad.com/index/miscellaneous/index.html

On 17/7/04 5:32 pm, in article
[email hidden], "Iain Jones"

Quoted message said:

I've just read Dan Bailey's lucky tail in Trail about being struck by
lightning a few months ago on The Cobbler. It occurred to me that if I
found myself up on a mountain in a thunderstorm I wouldn't know what to do.
Heck, it's even happened, last year on Ben Cruachan a noisy storm sounded
very close. Any advice?

Firstly, avoid crevasses - Dan was not able to do that as he would appear to
have been rock climbing!

The best advice is kind of counter-intuitive. Stay in the open and sit on a
waterproof or backpack that is as dry as possible! And keep your walking
poles at a distance!

--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK

"Bob Hobden" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

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"theo" wrote after>

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Make yourself lower than your surroundings. In a ditch if necessary.
Don't shelter under a tree. Don't experiment with umbrella's ;-) that
has been done before.

Don't worry I'm not that daft ;-)

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Why on a mountain? The same dilemma applies when walking through a
wood or across a flat field.

Probably for the same reason I typed "with" and spelt "tale" as "tail". Bad
day. I meant out in the countryside in general.

Quoted message said:

Get away from the trees and find yourself
in a flat field? Get out of the field and find yourself in a wood?
Personally I prefer the wood to the flat field, but just wouldn't
stand next to a big tree and never next to a lone big tree.

I'd rather stand near no trees during lightning.

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the wonderful
person Joe Bloggs <[email hidden]> said

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"GSV Three Minds in a Can" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the wonderful
person Boo <boo@spam_me_no_spam.net> said

Quoted message said:

> Make yourself lower than your surroundings. In a ditch if necessary.

Actually I think ditches are a bad plan owing to the tendency for the
ground currents to pass through the contents of the ditch where it
interrupts the flow.

I think they're not a bad idea if you keep your feet together. Having a
ground current flow under you is not a big problem. Having it go up one
leg and down the other is. Even just a small part of it.

I'm sure I read somewhere that this sort of thing has killed cattle before
now. It appears that the resistance of a cow is less than that of the
ground between its feet, and so when lightning strikes the ground nearby the
current flows up one set of legs, and down the other.

Even if the resistance was equal, you'd still get 50% going through the
cow. Even 1% going through the cow would be very bad for it. Not sure
it'd actually cook, but it's probably run out of heartbeat.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.

"Iain Jones" wrote after I wrote> >

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Get away from the trees and find yourself
in a flat field? Get out of the field and find yourself in a wood?
Personally I prefer the wood to the flat field, but just wouldn't
stand next to a big tree and never next to a lone big tree.

I'd rather stand near no trees during lightning.

True, but if it's a choice between a wood or a flat field where you are
going to be the highest point even if you lie down I would choose the wood.
I certainly would not wish to be the tallest point around.

--
Regards
Bob
in Runnymede, 17miles west of London, UK

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 20:10:42 +0100, Roger <[email hidden]>

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The message <[email hidden]>
from "Joe Bloggs" <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

I'm sure I read somewhere that this sort of thing has killed cattle before
now. It appears that the resistance of a cow is less than that of the
ground between its feet, and so when lightning strikes the ground nearby the
current flows up one set of legs, and down the other.

Memory fades but I have that associated with the voltage gradient around
a High Tension pylon with defective insulators along with the notion
that a potential difference of a mere 80 volts is enough to terminate a
cow.

Errr.. how common are pylons with defective insulators?

--
Richard Webb
http://www.sub3000.com

The message <[email hidden]>
from [email hidden] (RJ Webb) contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Memory fades but I have that associated with the voltage gradient around
a High Tension pylon with defective insulators along with the notion
that a potential difference of a mere 80 volts is enough to terminate a
cow.

Quoted message said:

Errr.. how common are pylons with defective insulators?

About as common as instances of cows being killed by a pd between their
feet I should think.

--
Roger Chapman so far this year 39 summits
New - 22 (Marilyns 8, Sweats 5, Outlying Fells 11)
Repeats - 17( Marilyns 6, Sweats 12, Wainwrights 11)
Knackered knee - 4 times

In article <[email hidden]>, Joe Bloggs
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I'm sure I read somewhere that this sort of thing has killed cattle before
now. It appears that the resistance of a cow is less than that of the
ground between its feet, and so when lightning strikes the ground nearby the
current flows up one set of legs, and down the other.

I think it is a case of the potential difference between its front legs
and back legs, when there is a fault current travelling through the
ground, is sufficient to kill the beast.
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, RJ Webb
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Memory fades but I have that associated with the voltage gradient around
a High Tension pylon with defective insulators along with the notion
that a potential difference of a mere 80 volts is enough to terminate a
cow.

Errr.. how common are pylons with defective insulators?

Not common on Pylons (Towers in the trade) - much more common on
electricity poles - easier to hit by airgun carrying vandals.

--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Roger
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

About as common as instances of cows being killed by a pd between their
feet I should think.

Usually caused by a cow standing between an uninsulated stay and a
terminal pole during a fault with high fault current.
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Roger
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

About as common as instances of cows being killed by a pd between their
feet I should think.

Usually caused by a cow standing between an uninsulated stay and a
terminal pole during a fault with high fault current.

The most common occurrence being when the cow has at least one
foot on the ground and at least one of the other three in
physical contact with the wire. It tends to ruin the cow's day,
does that.
--
Fran
If you need my email address please ask.

In article <[email hidden]>, Fran
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

The most common occurrence being when the cow has at least one
foot on the ground and at least one of the other three in
physical contact with the wire. It tends to ruin the cow's day,
does that.

The sort of wires I'm talking about are at least 11,000 volt overhead
lines. The fault current travels through the ground.

Yes I agree - one foot on the wire indeed - pull the udder one :-)

--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

W. D. Grey said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Fran
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

The most common occurrence being when the cow has at least one
foot on the ground and at least one of the other three in
physical contact with the wire. It tends to ruin the cow's day,
does that.

The sort of wires I'm talking about are at least 11,000 volt overhead
lines. The fault current travels through the ground.

Yes I agree - one foot on the wire indeed - pull the udder one :-)

And remember cattle always lick something new in their environment..
so that would ruin their day even more.

It is always fun introducing cattle to their first electric fence.
This must always be supervised.

They lick the fence and take off. If they jump forward then they wreck
the fence - hence the supervision. They learn quickly not to do it
again.

4leg simultaneous take off is quite amusing....

Richard Webb

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the wonderful person
RJ Webb <[email hidden]> said
<snip>

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And remember cattle always lick something new in their environment..
so that would ruin their day even more.

It is always fun introducing cattle to their first electric fence.
This must always be supervised.

They lick the fence and take off. If they jump forward then they wreck
the fence - hence the supervision. They learn quickly not to do it
again.

4leg simultaneous take off is quite amusing....

The official method is (or was, many years back) to drape some grass,
kale leaves, or whatever, over the fence .. the extra resistance helps
take the sting out a bit, while still persuading the cows not to bother
the fence. Of course, it may put them off kale for life. 8>.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Fran
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

The most common occurrence being when the cow has at least one
foot on the ground and at least one of the other three in
physical contact with the wire. It tends to ruin the cow's day,
does that.

The sort of wires I'm talking about are at least 11,000 volt overhead
lines. The fault current travels through the ground.

Yes, I know :-)

Quoted message said:

Yes I agree - one foot on the wire indeed - pull the udder one :-)

*Snigger*
--
Fran
If you need my email address please ask.

[email hidden] (RJ Webb) wrote in news:41021d9b.2917765
@usenet.plus.net:

Quoted message said:

They lick the fence and take off. If they jump forward then they wreck
the fence - hence the supervision. They learn quickly not to do it
again.

4leg simultaneous take off is quite amusing....

unless you're the cow