What new bike for beginner

Steve Watkin said:

She thinks
she doesn't want gears but she is wrong

Oh dear, oh dear. I'm afraid you're only about halfway through the
process of teaching the lady to ride a bike, and the other half is
going to be difficult.
My other half has been on several tours with me, but is allergic to
gears. I found a lovely 2nd-hand touring bike for her several years
back, 12 gears (when 10 was a lot), padded grips on the drops, leather
saddle, and she really liked it except she wouldn't change gear.
I'd pedal along beside her and when we got to a hill, say 'Now push
that little lever on the right away from you a bit. That's it. Does
that feel easier?' 'Yes' would be the response, and about ten seconds
later 'How do I make it feel like it did before?'
Might be no coincidence that our tours together involving that bike
were in Holland and the Hungarian Plain, and also that we live in
Cambridge.That particular bike is long gone, but I suspect that not a
lot of wear has been incurred on gears 1 and 3 of the Sturmey Archer
she's had for the last four years.
Having said that, I think anything that involves minimal movement of
the hands is probably the way to go, whatever the mechanism at the
other end.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My other half has been on several tours with me, but is allergic to
gears.

Doesn't help the OP, but for you : Tandem.

cheers,
clive

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Steve
Watkin <[email hidden]> gently breathed:

Quoted message said:

I have just successfully taught a 39 year old (about 5'3" tall) lady to
ride, never been on a bike before but was determined to ride before she was
40 !!

Well done that lady!

Quoted message said:

She now wants to buy a bike with a budget of a max. 200 pounds. She thinks
she doesn't want gears but she is wrong because there are plenty of hills
around here. So I am trying to find something simple, either hub or single
chainwheel derailleur. What's out there?

Can you get a Gazelle (Dutch roadster) for that price (been a while
since I looked), poss second hand? Simple hub gears, good brakes, and
built to last forever, doesn't need anything like the checking and
adjusting you need to do on a sportier bike. Not fast but solid and
practical.

If not, keep away from all forms of suspension and "fancy bits", and at
all and any cost steer her clear of "supermarket specials".

I think a lot of people who weren't taught to understand machines as
children have problems with gears, esp the traditional twin derailleur
arrangement.

--
- DJ Pyromancer, Black Sheep, Leeds. <http://www.sheepish.net>

Broadband, Dialup, Domains = <http://www.wytches.net> = The UK's Pagan ISP!
<http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk> <http://www.revival.stormshadow.com>

Pyromancer said:

Quoted message said:

She now wants to buy a bike with a budget of a max. 200 pounds. She thinks
she doesn't want gears but she is wrong because there are plenty of hills
around here. So I am trying to find something simple, either hub or single
chainwheel derailleur. What's out there?

Can you get a Gazelle (Dutch roadster) for that price (been a while
since I looked), poss second hand? Simple hub gears, good brakes, and
built to last forever, doesn't need anything like the checking and
adjusting you need to do on a sportier bike. Not fast but solid and
practical.

New they'd be way outside of the budget given, second hand they'd be
hard to find I imagine. I have a 7 speed steel frame Gazelle, I don't
recommend those for terrain that has "plenty of hills". They're build
like a tank (sort of), but they also require that type of force to move.
Every time I get on it I'm reminded of how much of a drag this bike is,
and that's comparing it to a cheap hybrid.

--
Membrane

Steve Watkin said:

She thinks she doesn't want gears

Does she drive? Has she ever felt the engine labour as she tried to
pull away in 3rd or heard the engine scream as she found 3rd instead
of 5th on a motorway? Now her body is the engine, what's it going to
be like with only 3rd gear?
But you know that already.

Steve Watkin said:

I have just successfully taught a 39 year old (about 5'3" tall) lady
to ride, never been on a bike before but was determined to ride
before she was 40 !!
She now wants to buy a bike with a budget of a max. 200 pounds. She
thinks she doesn't want gears but she is wrong because there are
plenty of hills around here. So I am trying to find something
simple, either hub or single chainwheel derailleur. What's out there?

Think your approach is fine. Difficulty is the budget. If she can go a
little over £200 it would help no end.

Browsing a few sources:
Giant Expression DX, Edinburgh cycle have them at £211. Has triple front,
but otherwise looks to fit requirements ?
Ridgeback Speed, same shop, £206, list price £230. Still has triple front.

Hub geared:
Giant Expression N3, 3 speed hub, hub brakes, but again, its over budget at
about £220. Also more expensive N7 model with 7 speed hub, but way over
budget.

The problem with models I've spotted below £200 is the lack of basic
sensible "extras" such as mudguards, rear carrier, etc. which make the
difference between a shed ornament and something which is usable for
everyday life (and ignoring the usual concerns over components made of
cheese)

You might be dead lucky with an old-stock model or an excellent s/hand
bargain, but assuming stuck with "new" try to push her just over the budget
for something like the ones above. Also, get it from a local bike shop
(even if dearer than mailorder or bargain stores) for repair/maintenance
issues, unless you plan to maintain it for her.

Given the "compulsory" triple on cheaper bikes, you might find it easier to
teach her the gear use.
I taught a local elderly lady who had to transfer from an ancient 3 speed to
a newer bike. I went for "front" gear (left control) was "downhill / flat /
uphill", so much like her three-speed, and the "rear" (right control) was
the fine control; low number = easier and slower, high number = harder and
faster.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

in message <[email hidden]>, Steve Watkin

(') said:

I have just successfully taught a 39 year old (about 5'3" tall) lady to
ride, never been on a bike before but was determined to ride before she
was 40 !!
She now wants to buy a bike with a budget of a max. 200 pounds. She
thinks she doesn't want gears but she is wrong because there are plenty
of hills
around here. So I am trying to find something simple, either hub or
single
chainwheel derailleur. What's out there?

I keep recommending the Claud Butler Classic, but I'll go on recommending
it because it's a really good buy. For under £200 you get mudguards,
pannier rack, 21 speed gears and on this years' model a (plastic)
chainguard, and it's remarkable quality kit for the price and well put
together.

http://www.falconcycles.co.uk/CORP/cb/classicM.html

Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op, if you're close to one of their branches, also do
some excellent value for money including a nexus-geared hybrid for only
£269.10 - surely the cheapest nexus-geared bike in Britain.

http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/ebwPNLqrymode.a4p?f%5FProductID=6921

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

((DoctorWho)ChristopherEccleston).act();
uk.co.bbc.TypecastException: actor does not want to be typecast.
[adapted from autofile on /., 31/03/05]

Pyromancer said:

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Steve
Watkin <[email hidden]> gently breathed:

Quoted message said:

I have just successfully taught a 39 year old (about 5'3" tall) lady to
ride, never been on a bike before but was determined to ride before she was
40 !!

Well done that lady!

indeed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

She now wants to buy a bike with a budget of a max. 200 pounds. She thinks
she doesn't want gears but she is wrong because there are plenty of hills
around here. So I am trying to find something simple, either hub or single
chainwheel derailleur. What's out there?

Can you get a Gazelle (Dutch roadster) for that price (been a while
since I looked), poss second hand? Simple hub gears, good brakes, and
built to last forever, doesn't need anything like the checking and
adjusting you need to do on a sportier bike. Not fast but solid and
practical.

If not, keep away from all forms of suspension and "fancy bits", and at
all and any cost steer her clear of "supermarket specials".

I think a lot of people who weren't taught to understand machines as
children have problems with gears, esp the traditional twin derailleur
arrangement.

i think derailleur's are a problem as they say 21 speed, not 7 speed
with low, middle and high ratio. as they do in land rovers and the like.

roger

Roger Merriman said:

i think derailleur's are a problem as they say 21 speed, not 7 speed
with low, middle and high ratio. as they do in land rovers and the like.

But that's unhelpful too. You should never be using 1st with the big
wheel, for example, but "7 speed low ratio" suggests it would be a
reasonable idea.

It's tricky to describe sensibly without technical language that might
render the description useless.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Found this
http://www.saracencycles.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=624&Itemid=256
In the end, a Saracen Hyway (ladies) for 170 quid in our local shop. Just
the job! !

Steve Watkin said:

Found this
http://www.saracencycles.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=624&Itemid=256
In the end, a Saracen Hyway (ladies) for 170 quid in our local shop.
Just the job! !

Looks like it meets the requirements.

Possibly with some of the spare change get a basket to bolt onto the rear
rack ? Or some rear pannier bags (just cheap ones). Makes carrying things
to/from shops (etc) a lot easier.

Or alternatively one to fix to the front, but in that case requires more
care as quite a few front ones seem to be rubbish; they foul the brakes, rub
the frame, etc. etc. unless fitted with a support from the front axle.

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Am Fri, 25 May 2007 13:54:13 +0100 schrieb Steve Watkin:

Quoted message said:

Found this
http://www.saracencycles.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=624&Itemid=256
In the end, a Saracen Hyway (ladies) for 170 quid in our local shop. Just
the job! !

Alloy single wall rims? Even for such a low budget I would at least expect
double wall rims. Even low-budget double-wall rims are much more reliable
and stronger than single wall. By the way - on cheap wheels it's worth
checking the tension of the spokes, as the wheels are built by a machine.
As for the V-brakes it's a bit luck if those are working well. Also the
rear carrier looks a bit flimsy. But I guess you get what you pay for...

Andreas

Nigel Cliffe said:

Steve Watkin said:

Found this
http://www.saracencycles.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6
24&Itemid=256 In the end, a Saracen Hyway (ladies) for 170 quid in our
local shop. Just the job! !

Looks like it meets the requirements.

Possibly with some of the spare change get a basket to bolt onto the rear
rack ? Or some rear pannier bags (just cheap ones). Makes carrying things
to/from shops (etc) a lot easier.

it does indeed.

Quoted message said:

Or alternatively one to fix to the front, but in that case requires more
care as quite a few front ones seem to be rubbish; they foul the brakes, rub
the frame, etc. etc. unless fitted with a support from the front axle.

and make the bike handle poorly, if heavly laden, paniers are more
stable, though more pricey.

roger

Peter Clinch said:

But that's unhelpful too. You should never be using 1st with the big
wheel, for example, but "7 speed low ratio" suggests it would be a
reasonable idea.

Can you point to some text that describes just what one should and
shouldn't do with derailleurs? I learned on a hub (and I'm glad I did)
but I have now inherited a (3x7) derailleur bike as well...

Roger

Roger Burton West said:

Can you point to some text that describes just what one should and
shouldn't do with derailleurs? I learned on a hub (and I'm glad I did)
but I have now inherited a (3x7) derailleur bike as well...

It will depend to a degree on what the exact ratios, but typically on a
3x7 you'd do something like this...

small -> 1, 2, 3
medium -> 3, 4, 5
large -> 5, 6, 7

to go through the range from low to high. There are exceptions: if
it'll be a dodgy change the back will generally work better than the
front, so use the back, and the degrees of overlap are a bit fuzzy and
it may entail going back and forth a bit on the back around the big
wheel changes.

The main point, however, is you want to keep the chainline as close to
straight back along the frame as possible, so diagonals (small to high,
big to low) are avoided as that adds wear to all the bits, lowers
efficiency and increases your chances of throwing the chain.

There are many [censored] things about derailleurs, and overlapping ratios and
confusing change orders are some of them. *But* they'll give you a
much bigger range and better efficiency (if used well) than a hub
(Rohloff excepted).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

In article said:

Roger Merriman said:

i think derailleur's are a problem as they say 21 speed, not 7 speed
with low, middle and high ratio. as they do in land rovers and the like.

But that's unhelpful too. You should never be using 1st with the big
wheel, for example, but "7 speed low ratio" suggests it would be a
reasonable idea.

There was a short-lived system ("Dawes Urban something something"?)
that gave you 11 (I think) distinct gears automatically avoiding the
bad ones (of a 21-speed) from a single twist grip operating two
derailleur cables via assorted flimsy complicated cams.

Steve Watkin said:

Found this
http://www.saracencycles.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=624&Itemid=256
In the end, a Saracen Hyway (ladies) for 170 quid in our local shop. Just
the job! !

You do realise that the bike as advertised DOESN'T include racks, guards
etc only the mountings are included
Of course ICBW

--
www.cheesesoup.myby.co.uk

soup said:

You do realise that the bike as advertised DOESN'T include racks, guards
etc only the mountings are included
Of course ICBW

Mmm specs and bigger specs disagree, just ignore me.

--
www.cheesesoup.myby.co.uk

in message <[email hidden]>, Roger Burton West

(') said:

Peter Clinch said:

But that's unhelpful too. You should never be using 1st with the big
wheel, for example, but "7 speed low ratio" suggests it would be a
reasonable idea.

Can you point to some text that describes just what one should and
shouldn't do with derailleurs? I learned on a hub (and I'm glad I did)
but I have now inherited a (3x7) derailleur bike as well...

Having the chain running at a bad angle is a bad idea because the chain
wears faster. This essentially means don't use the smallest cog with the
smallest chainring, or the biggest with the biggest. But it doesn't
critically matter - nothing will self-destruct if you do, it's just that
you'll have to replace your chain sooner.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

[ This .sig intentionally left blank ]