What To Do About Bolloxed Vacation?

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

I had the annoying news that my scheduled group vacation, touring the
Netherlands by barge and bike, from the 30th April to the 7th May, has
been cancelled for lack of a sufficient number of participants.

I have the choice of accepting a different vacation for the same dates
or the same vacation for the week after, 7th to 14th May.

The different vacation for the same dates takes the same route, but
there is much more cycling - average 50 km a day rather than 25, and the
barge is less comfortable (there would be a slight refund for this). I'm
worried that I do not have the physical level suddenly to start doing 50
km a day, when the most I've ever done in one stint is 28. I will not
have time (or a place) to train on my current schedule. And I don't want
to undertake an ordeal for what is supposed to be a fun, relaxing holiday.

OTOH, I have already bought a non-refundable train ticket for the
original dates. If I take the easier tour at the later date, I have to
pay an extra 103 Euros to buy another train journey. In addition, I end
up with a discontinuous vacation. It starts on April 16th, with an
already booked stint in London and Cambridge. Instead of ending on the
7th with a return to work on the 9th, it would mean returning to work
between the 2nd and the 6th to depart again on the 7th.

How can this forum help me in my decision? I suppose the only opinions
you can input are regarding the longer journeys. Given that this is flat
terrain and good Dutch country roads, and that there should be
relatively less mental stress because there will be guides to show us
the way and we will be in a group, so I won't have to worry about
traffic or getting lost, is 50 km much more tiring than 25? Another
consideration is, people on this tour will be fitter and more active
than on the lazy tour, and I'm worried about not fitting in as well
socially. I don't want to be a drag on the group.

What do you suggest? Oh, and does anyone want to buy a cut-rate
round-trip Paris-Amsterdam by Thalys for the 30th-7th?

I'd be inclined to go for it. On flat terrain 50km a day will probably
be 3 hours (easy touring speed) to 4 hours (a very gentle pace) of
cycling. If you have a saddle you are comfortable with, you'll be fine.
If you have *any* doubt about the saddle, use padded cycling shorts.
Take some anyway, just in case.

If you can set aside a day to try riding that distance in similar
conditions before you decide you should find it's all right.

--
Joe * If I cannot be free I'll be cheap

Tue, 08 Mar 2005 18:08:02 +0100,
<[email hidden]>, Elisa Francesca Roselli
<[email hidden]> wrote, in part:

Quoted message said:

The different vacation for the same dates takes the same route, but
there is much more cycling - average 50 km a day rather than 25, and the
barge is less comfortable (there would be a slight refund for this). I'm
worried that I do not have the physical level suddenly to start doing 50
km a day, when the most I've ever done in one stint is 28. I will not
have time (or a place) to train on my current schedule. And I don't want
to undertake an ordeal for what is supposed to be a fun, relaxing holiday.

There will no doubt be several stops for snacks, lunch, sightseeing,
etc. The 50km could well take 6 hours or more. It's not likely to be
much more than an hour saddle time between breaks.
The second day you might feel stiff in the morning but it should all
work itself out after twenty minutes. You're young, you're healthy and
you're used to riding. I'd bet you could do it easily.
--
zk

50 km/31 miles is not that far, espedially on good flat roads and bike
paths. You just might surprise yourself by completing the distance with
little or no difficulty. Most of these organised tours have support vehicles
that follow the cyclists and provide them with snacks and liquid
refreshment, so you won't have to worry about staying fed and hydrated
during the day. If worst comes to worst, you could always load your bike in
the support vehicle when you get too tired to ride any further. OTOH, maybe
the perceived ignominy of riding in the support vehicle will provide you
with the motivation you need to keep cycling and finish the 50 km...

If this group deals with a lot of American customers then I'm sure that they
are very accustomed to unfit guests who cannot ride 50 km in a day, and
have found ways to accommodate the less fit members of the group.

People who signed up for the 50 km/day tour probably aren't that much fitter
than the 25 km/day group, they're just willing to spend a little more time
on their bikes. If being a little slow on your bike is going to make it
difficult for you to fit in socially, then you probably don't want to know
those people anyway.

If the 50 km/day tour turns out to be extremely demanding for you, try not
to think of it as "an ordeal". Exercising yourself into exhaustion can be
fun, and it can be quite satisfying. Just ask anyone who's ever cycled a
century ride or a long Audax ride, or run a marathon. There's a real feeling
of accomplishment that goes with all those aching muscles, and there are a
lot of long term benefits as well. By the end of the 50 km/day tour you
should be distinctly fitter than you are now, and that gain in fitness will
make all your subsequent cycling activity much more enjoyable.

Out of curiousity, which company are you touring with?
--
mark

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

How can this forum help me in my decision? I suppose the only

opinions

Quoted message said:

you can input are regarding the longer journeys. Given that this is

flat

Quoted message said:

terrain and good Dutch country roads, and that there should be
relatively less mental stress because there will be guides to show us

Quoted message said:

the way and we will be in a group, so I won't have to worry about
traffic or getting lost, is 50 km much more tiring than 25? Another
consideration is, people on this tour will be fitter and more active
than on the lazy tour, and I'm worried about not fitting in as well
socially. I don't want to be a drag on the group.

What do you suggest? Oh, and does anyone want to buy a cut-rate
round-trip Paris-Amsterdam by Thalys for the 30th-7th?

50km unloaded on flat roads will not really be very hard so long as you
are reasonably accustomed to sitting on a saddle regularly. If you have
the option of a day off (or a half-day) part-way though then certainly
it shouldn't be a struggle. As for the group thing, I imagine that
anyone who wants to cycle fast would not be interested in such a
holiday in the first place. Sounds like a very pleasant and relaxed
trip.

James

8 Mar 2005 21:53:20 -0800,
<[email hidden]>,

James Annan said:

50km unloaded on flat roads will not really be very hard so long as you
are reasonably accustomed to sitting on a saddle regularly. If you have
the option of a day off (or a half-day) part-way though then certainly
it shouldn't be a struggle.

I concur with that statement with the added qualifier that chafing or
blisters caused by saddle or shoes could quickly become debilitating.

A sag-barge would undoubtedly be more comfortable than a sag-wagon if
worse came to worst.
--
zk

mark a écrit :

Quoted message said:

50 km/31 miles is not that far, espedially on good flat roads and bike
paths. You just might surprise yourself by completing the distance with
little or no difficulty. Most of these organised tours have support vehicles
that follow the cyclists and provide them with snacks and liquid
refreshment, so you won't have to worry about staying fed and hydrated
during the day.

In this case, the support vehicle is the barge. On the easy tour, the
barge takes us from town to town and we bike around the town to visit.
If tired we can always rejoin the barge or even just stay on it. On the
more demanding tour, we bike the distance between towns and rejoin the
barge on arrival for dinner. So in this case, there is no access to
support once we are on the road.

Quoted message said:

If the 50 km/day tour turns out to be extremely demanding for you, try not
to think of it as "an ordeal". Exercising yourself into exhaustion can be
fun, and it can be quite satisfying. Just ask anyone who's ever cycled a
century ride or a long Audax ride, or run a marathon. There's a real feeling
of accomplishment that goes with all those aching muscles, and there are a
lot of long term benefits as well. By the end of the 50 km/day tour you
should be distinctly fitter than you are now, and that gain in fitness will
make all your subsequent cycling activity much more enjoyable.

Not necessarily, I could also get disgusted with the whole process and
chill out from overkill. I know this is a tendentious remark in a forum
full of cycling addicts, but it _is_ possible to develop a strong
aversion to cycling and it has happened to me for various periods in the
past. In January last year I took a fall and had panic attacks every
time I approached a bike. Then in April I had such a disastrous cycling
holiday in the UK (hailstorms every day, festering sores on my soft
parts, terminal exhaustion to the point that all I wanted to do was
sleep all day) that it took me much of the summer to recover my sense of
enjoyment.

I also have a recurring problem with arthritis in the knee. So far,
cycling has never brought it on, which is its advantage over other
sports I've tried. I cannot jog because of this problem and it recurred
from time to time when I was kick-scooting. It is debilitating and lasts
for weeks. 50 km a day may push me past a critical point and if I get
arthritis at the beginning of the trip, that pretty well bolloxes the
outcome.

Quoted message said:

Out of curiousity, which company are you touring with?

www.tripsite.com

EFR
Ile de France

JLB a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:

Quoted message said:

I'd be inclined to go for it. On flat terrain 50km a day will probably
be 3 hours (easy touring speed) to 4 hours (a very gentle pace) of
cycling. If you have a saddle you are comfortable with, you'll be fine.
If you have *any* doubt about the saddle, use padded cycling shorts.
Take some anyway, just in case.

What I'm taking with me is my whole bike. The tour company does provide
a Dutch style bike, but since it is unfamiliar I'm unwilling to trust
that we will get on. I managed my 28 kms on the bike that I plan to
take. I can deal with the saddle, which is suspended. I'm not sure what
will happen, to me or to the frail folding Dahon loaded beyond its
capacity that it is, over those distances, however.

I have never seen cycling shorts in my size. I will have a look in the
UK before I head out to the Netherlands, or indeed try within the
Netherlands which must have its quotient of fat ladies who cycle.
Apparently there is no such animal in France, apart from myself.

EFR
Ile de France

Zoot Katz a écrit :

Quoted message said:

I concur with that statement with the added qualifier that chafing or
blisters caused by saddle or shoes could quickly become debilitating.

You're telling me. Been there, done that. Never knew it was possible to
have blisters in quite that configuration.

EFR
Ile de France

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

The different vacation for the same dates takes the same route, but
there is much more cycling - average 50 km a day rather than 25, and the
barge is less comfortable (there would be a slight refund for this). I'm
worried that I do not have the physical level suddenly to start doing 50
km a day, when the most I've ever done in one stint is 28. I will not
have time (or a place) to train on my current schedule. And I don't want
to undertake an ordeal for what is supposed to be a fun, relaxing holiday.

I think you'll be OK. 50 K a day on flat roads is challenging,
but not deadly. In Holland the main problem is exposure to wind;
there's very little shelter. However, if you read up on
"slip streaming" or the "sitting in you'll do much
better ;-)

With regards to comfort, proper shorts are (IMHO) ESSENTIAL.
They make a remarkable difference to comfort.

I don't think the people on the 50 K-a-day tour will
be race-fit enthusiasts, out for a burn up.
Those people will be on a much more punishing
holiday than even this.

My recommendationss;
* ensure your bike is well set up; smooth tyres,
decent pump (to maintain tyre pressure, which makes
a collossal difference to ease of travel), saddle height etc.
Many people who are new to cycling have their saddle
too low for efficient peddaling.

* purchase "real" cycling shorts

* train (or practise ;-) as much much (but also as
gently and enjoyably) as you reasonably can.

* GO ON THE HOLIDAY

BugBear

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

I have never seen cycling shorts in my size. I will have a look
in the UK before I head out to the Netherlands, or indeed try
within the Netherlands which must have its quotient of fat ladies
who cycle. Apparently there is no such animal in France, apart
from myself.

I'm not sure quite how big you are, but <www.teamestrogen.com> have
woman-specific padded shorts that go up to at least 4X. Any use?

--
Dave...

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

snip......... I managed my 28 kms on the bike that I
plan to take. I can deal with the saddle, which is suspended. I'm not
sure what will happen, to me or to the frail folding Dahon loaded
beyond its capacity that it is, over those distances, however.

I have never seen cycling shorts in my size. I will have a look in the
UK before I head out to the Netherlands, or indeed try within the
Netherlands which must have its quotient of fat ladies who cycle.
Apparently there is no such animal in France, apart from myself.

Err, I think I might be one of them?! I have cycling shorts from Lidl,
not padded though. Also some Adidas mens ones from our local brocante. I
also use a gel seat on the saddle, also from Lidl. Gloves with gel are
handy too, my hands get sore if I cycle for long distances. If you
practice longer distances a bit beforehand I don't think you will have
any trouble with 50km. Go for it - I would!

HTH

--
Holly, in France.
Holiday home in the Dordogne,
website: http://la-plaine.chez.tiscali.fr

"Elisa Francesca Roselli" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I had the annoying news that my scheduled group vacation, touring

the

Quoted message said:

Netherlands by barge and bike, from the 30th April to the 7th May,

has

Quoted message said:

been cancelled for lack of a sufficient number of participants.

I agree with everyone else who has suggested taking the 50 km/day
holiday. It sounds as if the tour company's customers agree too, if
there aren't enough customers for the 25km tour.

You might not be able to meet your barge in the middle of the day,
but I imagine that you could take a complete day off on the barge, if
the day before had been too uncomfortable, perhaps only riding a km
or two along the towpath, between locks..

When you did your 28 km ride, was it one continuous ride, with only a
few short stops, or a commute, a 14 km ride in the morning, and
another 14 km going home at night? If it was either of those, 50 km,
spread throughout the day, with plenty of stops, ought to be no
trouble at all. If it took you all day to ride 28 km, and the last
few kilometres were a struggle, I still think the holiday would be
ok, but you had better do some training between now and then. You
have enough time. It would be a good idea to do at least one 50 km
ride, just to see how comfortable your clothes were for that distance

I can't remember all the things you have said about your own bikes,
but I doubt if you will have anything slower than the tour company's
Dutch bikes, so you might be faster than some others, not slower.

Good luck

Jeremy Parker
London

"James Annan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

How can this forum help me in my decision? I suppose the only

opinions

Quoted message said:

you can input are regarding the longer journeys. Given that this is

flat

Quoted message said:

terrain and good Dutch country roads, and that there should be
relatively less mental stress because there will be guides to show us

Quoted message said:

the way and we will be in a group, so I won't have to worry about
traffic or getting lost, is 50 km much more tiring than 25? Another
consideration is, people on this tour will be fitter and more active
than on the lazy tour, and I'm worried about not fitting in as well
socially. I don't want to be a drag on the group.

What do you suggest? Oh, and does anyone want to buy a cut-rate
round-trip Paris-Amsterdam by Thalys for the 30th-7th?

50km unloaded on flat roads will not really be very hard so long as you
are reasonably accustomed to sitting on a saddle regularly. If you have
the option of a day off (or a half-day) part-way though then certainly
it shouldn't be a struggle. As for the group thing, I imagine that
anyone who wants to cycle fast would not be interested in such a
holiday in the first place. Sounds like a very pleasant and relaxed
trip.

A few years back my husband and I took a tandem trip in France
that was a unloaded, we will bring your bags to the next town but
you need to make it there on your own type tour. Average distance
was 50km a day, but not necessarily flat. Note the word average.
A long day was 80km. I don't remember a day with a shorter trip
than 35km. To ready ourselves for this trip we upped our riding
from 40Km twice a week to 50km five times a week. We had
the touring seats, padded shorts, and incredibly good bike. By
the 10th day the riding wasn't all that fun. However, the vacation
stories impress my non-cycling friends a ton.

I have no doubt anyone who rides 25km once a week could
ride 50km in a day. Or even 50km two days in a row. But
by the 5th day it might not be so fun. The other key is the
original trip lets you toodle around the towns, so if you got
tired you just headed back to the barge. On the meet the
barge trip you need to make it to the town by dinner. Even
on the longest day we got to our final destination with a few
hours to spare. Not all on our trip did...

So, if you want a more challenging type vacation, where you
come home with stories of grit and distances conquered go
for the longer distances. You will come out of it feeling good
about yourself. If you are looking for a relaxing, site seeing
type trip with enough exercise to allow some splurging at
dinner, go for the original trip.

Elisa Francesca Roselli of Guest of ProXad - France said:

I have never seen cycling shorts in my size. I will have a look in the
UK before I head out to the Netherlands, or indeed try within the
Netherlands which must have its quotient of fat ladies who cycle.
Apparently there is no such animal in France, apart from myself.

The UK large ladies who cycle contingent on this news group snap up the
bargain XXL padded cycling shorts from Aldi when they have cycling gear
twice a year. No idea when it's time for that to come round again, but the
odds are not soon enough for your trip.

Steph
Fat bird on a bike

Steph Peters said:

Elisa Francesca Roselli <[email hidden]> of Guest of ProXad - France

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have never seen cycling shorts in my size. I will have a look in

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

UK before I head out to the Netherlands, or indeed try within the
Netherlands which must have its quotient of fat ladies who cycle.
Apparently there is no such animal in France, apart from myself.

The UK large ladies who cycle contingent on this news group snap up

the

Quoted message said:

bargain XXL padded cycling shorts from Aldi when they have cycling

gear

Quoted message said:

twice a year. No idea when it's time for that to come round again,

but the

Quoted message said:

odds are not soon enough for your trip.

Steph
Fat bird on a bike

I'm guessing it shouldn't be long now, last one was late September

"Elisa Francesca Roselli" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JLB a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:

Quoted message said:

I'd be inclined to go for it. On flat terrain 50km a day will probably
be 3 hours (easy touring speed) to 4 hours (a very gentle pace) of
cycling. If you have a saddle you are comfortable with, you'll be fine.
If you have *any* doubt about the saddle, use padded cycling shorts.
Take some anyway, just in case.

What I'm taking with me is my whole bike. The tour company does provide
a Dutch style bike, but since it is unfamiliar I'm unwilling to trust
that we will get on. I managed my 28 kms on the bike that I plan to
take. I can deal with the saddle, which is suspended. I'm not sure what
will happen, to me or to the frail folding Dahon loaded beyond its
capacity that it is, over those distances, however.

I have never seen cycling shorts in my size. I will have a look in the
UK before I head out to the Netherlands, or indeed try within the
Netherlands which must have its quotient of fat ladies who cycle.
Apparently there is no such animal in France, apart from myself.

EFR
Ile de France

You might try the baggy "mtb" type of padded shorts. if you can't find a
women's, you can try a men's.
http://www.gbcycles.co.uk/eshop.asp?wci=product&wce=SHSP04END01&desc=SPECIAL
IZED+ENDURO+SHORTS

Cathy Kearns a écrit :

Quoted message said:

So, if you want a more challenging type vacation, where you
come home with stories of grit and distances conquered go
for the longer distances. You will come out of it feeling good
about yourself. If you are looking for a relaxing, site seeing
type trip with enough exercise to allow some splurging at
dinner, go for the original trip.

That's pretty much my reckoning. I think 25-30 km a day is already an
enormous challenge for me, far more than I have ever done in my life,
and my goal is to enjoy myself, my group and the Netherlands. I don't
believe in Stakhanovite vacations.

I've more or less decided to remit the whole tour to another session of
the Comfort trip, in early June. I lose the train fare, but it works out
better personally, professionally and astrologically.

EFR
Ile de France

Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:26:01 +0100,
<[email hidden]>, Elisa Francesca Roselli
<[email hidden]> concluded:
\snip

Quoted message said:

I've more or less decided to remit the whole tour to another session of
the Comfort trip, in early June. I lose the train fare, but it works out
better personally, professionally and astrologically.

But you miss the tulip bloom.
--
zk