Wheel Buliding.

Quoted message said:

I just curious a buddies built a wheel set .It turned out to be 4 cross on
the spokes .Is this better than 3 or did he mess up .The wheel have held up
so far but not too many mile on them yet .\
Ps
These are MT biking wheels and he's 300 lbs
Thanks in advance. .
My good wheels are 3 cross and have been around for years and are true.
--
J/O TrailBlazer At Large!!

Search the topic and you'll find the general impression that while 4X
can be strong, it can also create stresses when the first cross passes
over a spoke head. It's also a huge pain in the ass if you break a
spoke in the field. On the other hand, you might not have any issues at
all. I'd seriously think about rebuilding 3x, which may necessitate
shorter spokes.

"landotter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I just curious a buddies built a wheel set .It turned out to

be 4 cross on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the spokes .Is this better than 3 or did he mess up .The

wheel have held up

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so far but not too many mile on them yet .\
Ps
These are MT biking wheels and he's 300 lbs
Thanks in advance. .
My good wheels are 3 cross and have been around for years and

are true.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

--
J/O TrailBlazer At Large!!

Search the topic and you'll find the general impression that

while 4X

Quoted message said:

can be strong, it can also create stresses when the first cross

passes

Quoted message said:

over a spoke head. It's also a huge pain in the ass if you

break a

Quoted message said:

spoke in the field. On the other hand, you might not have any

issues at

Quoted message said:

all. I'd seriously think about rebuilding 3x, which may

necessitate

Quoted message said:

shorter spokes.

This is kind of funny because 30 years ago, a low-flange 4X wheel
was SOP for touring. The lore was that 4X was "plush" and 3X was
"harsh." I still think 4X is fine on a low flange hub -- maybe
slightly heavier because of the longer spokes, but otherwise no
different in terms of serviceability or longevity, IMO. I did
lots of tours on 4X and even broke a spoke or two which was not
unduly difficult to replace. I would just leave the OP's wheels
alone. -- Jay Beattie.

P.S. for inconvenience try a 48 hole, 5X tandem wheel. I used to
build those back in the day and always had skinned knuckles from
maneuvering through the nest of spokes. You could also waste your
entire life getting the wheel laser straight with no undulation
at all between spokes.

landotter said:

Search the topic and you'll find the general impression that while 4X
can be strong, it can also create stresses when the first cross passes
over a spoke head. It's also a huge pain in the ass if you break a
spoke in the field. On the other hand, you might not have any issues at
all. I'd seriously think about rebuilding 3x, which may necessitate
shorter spokes.

Ah veh... I did read back on some old threads and now I am a little
worried. You see, I just had new wheels built. I'm a 6'6" 250+ lb.
rider on a fully rigid 700C mountain bike. I told them I wanted strong
wheels. They recommended 36-hole LX hubs laced four-cross to Velocity
Dyad rims.

This made perfect sense to me. Maybe overbuilt, but then again:

1. No suspension, so the wheels take more of a beating.
2. I ride a 1x8 drivetrain. No granny ring so more standing and mashing
on climbs.
3. Rider weight and strength.
4. Bike weight isn't an issue: Instead of a 'weight weenie' I think I'm
a 'steel snob.'

Did the shop give a good recommendation? I just took it for granted
that 4-cross was stronger.

Reminds me of back when I was a teenaged roadie (early 90's), I had a
problem with the rear wheel going out of true and also breaking spokes
on sprints and hard climbs. I took my bike into a shop that built
wheels for BMX guys doing five-foot drops and they built a monster
wheel, 5-cross on drive side and 4-cross on the other side. Sounds
crazy today, but that was the last time I ever had that wheel in the
shop.

Regards,
Anthony

Quoted message said:

I just curious a buddies built a wheel set .It turned out to be 4 cross on
the spokes .Is this better than 3 or did he mess up .The wheel have held up
so far but not too many mile on them yet .\
Ps
These are MT biking wheels and he's 300 lbs
Thanks in advance. .
My good wheels are 3 cross and have been around for years and are true.

Depends how many spokes. x4 is good for 40 spokes and above, but not
good for 36 spokes; the kink at the rim is quite acute even with small
flange hubs.

In article <fjOUg.7136$vT1.2315@trndny03>,

Quoted message said:

I just curious a buddies built a wheel set .It turned out to be 4 cross on
the spokes .Is this better than 3 or did he mess up .The wheel have held up
so far but not too many mile on them yet .\
Ps
These are MT biking wheels and he's 300 lbs
Thanks in advance. .
My good wheels are 3 cross and have been around for years and are true.

Q: What is the goal of the crossing pattern?

A: The goal of the crossing pattern is to configure the
spoke pattern so as to make the spokes leave the hub as
close to tangential as possible. The point is to have as
much hub flange material as possible resisting the spoke
tearing out of the hub flange.

36 hole, ISO 622 wheels are 3 cross. 28 hole are probably
2 cross.

--
Michael Press

if you have reasonably large tires, you should be fine. The tires absorb most of the punishment. if the rim is absorbing punishment it's probably bending.

when suspension first came out and was unreliable, the "cheap" suspension was simply putting some 2.5" tires on. Many mtb riders/racers ran those on those skinny rims (26" MA2's or Sun rims, I think they were 20mm wide) with no problems. not sure if 2.5's will fit your frame.

the question is how tightly is your wheel laced? If it's tensioned on the high side, spoke fatigue will play a factor - easier to break spokes and easier to taco your wheel. If it's not too high, no problems.

did the shop tie/solder your spokes? this has the effect of making your hub flange a foot wide. it'll greatly stiffen the wheel.

cdr

Michael Press said:

Q: What is the goal of the crossing pattern?

A: The goal of the crossing pattern is to configure the
spoke pattern so as to make the spokes leave the hub as
close to tangential as possible.

Quoted message said:

36 hole, ISO 622 wheels are 3 cross.

If that is your stated goal, 36-hole wheels should be 4-cross, and 32
should be 3-cross. In reality, 36-hole wheels can reasonably be built
with either 3x or 4x. 32-hole 4x creates a lot of spoke interference with
neighboring spokes at the flange.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not
_`\(,_ | certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to
(_)/ (_) | reality. -- Albert Einstein

In article <[email hidden]>,
carpediemracing

Quoted message said:

if you have reasonably large tires, you should be fine. The tires
absorb most of the punishment. if the rim is absorbing punishment
it's probably bending.

when suspension first came out and was unreliable, the "cheap"
suspension was simply putting some 2.5" tires on. Many mtb
riders/racers ran those on those skinny rims (26" MA2's or Sun rims,
I think they were 20mm wide) with no problems. not sure if 2.5's
will fit your frame.

the question is how tightly is your wheel laced? If it's tensioned
on the high side, spoke fatigue will play a factor - easier to break
spokes and easier to taco your wheel. If it's not too high, no
problems.

did the shop tie/solder your spokes? this has the effect of making
your hub flange a foot wide. it'll greatly stiffen the wheel.

Ummm. You must be new here.

Tim McNamara said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
carpediemracing

Quoted message said:

if you have reasonably large tires, you should be fine. The tires
absorb most of the punishment. if the rim is absorbing punishment
it's probably bending.

when suspension first came out and was unreliable, the "cheap"
suspension was simply putting some 2.5" tires on. Many mtb
riders/racers ran those on those skinny rims (26" MA2's or Sun rims,
I think they were 20mm wide) with no problems. not sure if 2.5's
will fit your frame.

the question is how tightly is your wheel laced? If it's tensioned
on the high side, spoke fatigue will play a factor - easier to break
spokes and easier to taco your wheel. If it's not too high, no
problems.

did the shop tie/solder your spokes? this has the effect of making
your hub flange a foot wide. it'll greatly stiffen the wheel.

Ummm. You must be new here.

Doesn't tying and soldering make the wheel hang from the top spokes? 😉

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.
I am supporting cannibalism by eating more nuts.

In article <[email hidden]>,

David L. Johnson said:

Michael Press said:

Q: What is the goal of the crossing pattern?

A: The goal of the crossing pattern is to configure the
spoke pattern so as to make the spokes leave the hub as
close to tangential as possible.

Quoted message said:

36 hole, ISO 622 wheels are 3 cross.

If that is your stated goal, 36-hole wheels should be 4-cross, and 32
should be 3-cross. In reality, 36-hole wheels can reasonably be built
with either 3x or 4x. 32-hole 4x creates a lot of spoke interference with
neighboring spokes at the flange.

Yes, the stated goal prescribes 36 hole, 4X. As that leads
to severe interference among the spokes and covering spoke
holes, I hereby amend the goal to `tangential as is
practicable'. <:^)

--
Michael Press

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

Tim McNamara said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
carpediemracing

Quoted message said:

if you have reasonably large tires, you should be fine. The tires
absorb most of the punishment. if the rim is absorbing punishment
it's probably bending.

when suspension first came out and was unreliable, the "cheap"
suspension was simply putting some 2.5" tires on. Many mtb
riders/racers ran those on those skinny rims (26" MA2's or Sun rims,
I think they were 20mm wide) with no problems. not sure if 2.5's
will fit your frame.

the question is how tightly is your wheel laced? If it's tensioned
on the high side, spoke fatigue will play a factor - easier to break
spokes and easier to taco your wheel. If it's not too high, no
problems.

did the shop tie/solder your spokes? this has the effect of making
your hub flange a foot wide. it'll greatly stiffen the wheel.

Ummm. You must be new here.

Doesn't tying and soldering make the wheel hang from the top spokes? 😉

Naaah, it pushes inward from the bottom spoke. In cartwheels all the
spokes are under compression, odd that.