wheel choices - sdeals.com

[Chesney Christ]

Hi all,

I'm considering getting a lovely new set of wheels from sdeals.com, and they provide a handy feature
on their site that lets you customize them (navigate to the "wheels" section on www.sdeals.com). I'd
like them to be as light as possible, but I mainly want a set of wheels that will stay true and
last, rather than shaving off milligrams here and there to save weight - for that reason I think
I'll go for 36 spokes rather than 32 (and I don't mind spending a few extra quid). I've also already
decided I'm going to get Mavic CXP33 rims and a Shimano 105 hub.

But it seems there are a number of other variables Sdeals provide six different choices of spoke
for the rear wheel (four for the front) and about ten different choices of nipple. Can anyone
suggest what the differences are between them are, and why I might chose a specific
manufacturer/type ? I'm also guessing that x3 front/x3 x2 rear is probably the most ideal cross
pattern to use.

Thanks in advance ...

--

"Jokes mentioning ducks were considered particularly funny." - cnn.com

 

[Fraggle]

Chesney Christ <[email protected]> wrote in news:Uld7IJLjreU [email protected]:

> www.sdeals.com

I just get "Loading Sdeals cycle shop" and no further. No sale to Mozilla using folk

Fragg

 

[Pete Biggs]

Chesney Christ wrote:
> I'm considering getting a lovely new set of wheels from sdeals.com, and they provide a handy
> feature on their site that lets you customize them (navigate to the "wheels" section on
> www.sdeals.com). I'd like them to be as light as possible, but I mainly want a set of wheels that
> will stay true and last, rather than shaving off milligrams here and there to save weight - for
> that reason I think I'll go for 36 spokes rather than 32 (and I don't mind spending a few extra
> quid). I've also already decided I'm going to get Mavic CXP33 rims and a Shimano 105 hub.

SDeals allow ordering odd wheels so you could get 36 spoke rear, 32 front. Rear is where you need
all the strength and reliability you can reasonably get. Four fewer spokes at the front makes the
wheel a tiny bit lighter and more aerodynamic yet will be still be highly reliable for just about
everyone. Only downside: a spare rim won't do for both wheels.

> But it seems there are a number of other variables Sdeals provide six different choices of
> spoke for the rear wheel (four for the front) and about ten different choices of nipple. Can
> anyone suggest what the differences are between them are, and why I might chose a specific
> manufacturer/type ?

Manufacturer: It's hard to find out if ACI spokes are any less reliable than Sapim (or DT). There
only seems to be anacdotal evidence which is not conclusive in this case. My guess is that
they're ok.

Guage is important. Butted/double butted means the end(s) are thicker than the middle. A thinner
middle section makes the spoke more elastic to improve fatigue resistance as well as saving weight -
so avoid plain guage. Sapim "Strong" 13/14 spokes are even thicker at the hub end (where spokes
usually break) and are supposed to be more fatigue resistant that
14/16 "Race" - but I have broken one (or was it two?). I think they also make wheel building/truing
easier as they don't wind up so easily - which is particular useful on rear drive side with the
extra high tension there. They are considerably heavier than Race but this doesn't matter too
much if they're used for rear drive side only. I suppose: don't bother with them if you're
average weight or under and not riding mostly on the roughest roads. I'm now using DT Alpine III
for rear ds which are even stronger but lighter. It's a shame they don't offer Sapim Laser or DT
Revolution which are both more fatigue resistant and lighter than Sapim Race. I suppose you could
ask them to be ordered especially or send them some. Or alternatively use Parker International or
another builder. All are stainless steel ("SS").

Nipples: Aluminium ones are lighter than brass but round off more easily. Since I've rounded off too
many brass nipples in my time, I would never use al unless I needed the very lightest wheels. I
can't remember the number of grams now but the total difference is very small.
14i: Less likely to round with a suitable spoke key. Also, I reckon their threaded section is
slightly longer than the 12's have so they should be slightly more reliable altogether.
Plus, if they ever do get rounded, the top outer section can be filed to create new flats
(so they can be undone and replaced with a spoke key). Rear drive side is where you need
these benefits most (if at all). Otherwise 12mm brass should be fine and is what most
builders use all round.

> I'm also guessing that x3 front/x3 x2 rear is probably the most ideal cross pattern to use.

x3 all round is generally regarded as the reliable norm - but I went for
x3/x2 rear. Spokes *might* be less likely to unwind with x3.

Reminder: SDeals prices exclude VAT.

~PB

 

[Pete Biggs]

I wrote:

> 16mm [nipples]: Less likely to round with a suitable spoke key
[compared to 12mm]

CORRECTION: That's not always the case with all brands - and there's not much in it anyway.

Longer nipples are usually saved for deeper rims. I'm not sure what's best for CXP33. I would leave
it to the builders to recommend the length.

~PB

 

[Simon Brooke]

Chesney Christ <[email protected]> writes:

> But it seems there are a number of other variables Sdeals provide six different choices of
> spoke for the rear wheel (four for the front) and about ten different choices of nipple. Can
> anyone suggest what the differences are between them are, and why I might chose a specific
> manufacturer/type ? I'm also guessing that x3 front/x3 x2 rear is probably the most ideal cross
> pattern to use.

The more the spokes cross the softer the wheel will be. But you need some crossing on the rear wheel
otherwise it won't drive. Also, if you use disk or hub brakes, you need some crossing so that the
brakes will work! The last time I built myself a pair for road use I went for radial front and
two-cross rear, which gives a stiff, flippy bike which I like (and radials just look so trick...).
If you mostly ride on good quality road surfaces then two cross is the maximum you need. If you ride
on cobbles, dirt tracks, or really beat-up and potholed tarmac then radial will be too stiff and two
cross will also probably beat you up a bit.

Remember that you need different length spokes for different crossings!

I've never tried a bike which had one side of the rear wheel radial. That sounds very radical, and
from an engineering point of view I'm not really clear how it would work. I think I'd probably tend
to avoid that, myself. Anyone any real experience?

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Age equals angst multiplied by the speed of fright squared.
;; the Worlock

 

[Pete Biggs]

Simon Brooke wrote:

> The more the spokes cross the softer the wheel will be. But you need some crossing on the rear
> wheel otherwise it won't drive. Also, if you use disk or hub brakes, you need some crossing so
> that the brakes will work! The last time I built myself a pair for road use I went for radial
> front and two-cross rear, which gives a stiff, flippy bike which I like (and radials just look so
> trick...).

Radial lacing puts extra stress on the hub flanges and the spokes are more likely to pull through.
Campag's (and Shimano's?) warranty is void if you use radial. Spokes are also more likely to come
undone with radial and
2x.

> If you mostly ride on good quality road surfaces then two cross is the maximum you need.

I disagree. Except possibly for rear left, 3x is more sensible and is what the best wheel builders
generally recommend for 32 and 36 spokes.

~PB

 

[Chesney Christ]

A certain Pete Biggs, of uk.rec.cycling "fame", writes :
>Chesney Christ wrote:
>> I'm considering getting a lovely new set of wheels from sdeals.com, and they provide a handy
>> feature on their site that lets you customize them (navigate to the "wheels" section on
>> www.sdeals.com). I'd like them to be as light as possible, but I mainly want a set of wheels that
>> will stay true and last, rather than shaving off milligrams here and there to save weight - for
>> that reason I think I'll go for 36 spokes rather than 32 (and I don't mind spending a few extra
>> quid). I've also already decided I'm going to get Mavic CXP33 rims and a Shimano 105 hub.
>
>SDeals allow ordering odd wheels so you could get 36 spoke rear, 32 front.

What a comprehensive reply. Thank you very much indeed Paul

--

"Jokes mentioning ducks were considered particularly funny." - cnn.com

 

[Chesney Christ]

A certain Chesney Christ, of uk.rec.cycling "fame", writes :
>A certain Pete Biggs, of uk.rec.cycling "fame", writes :
>>Chesney Christ wrote:
>>> I'm considering getting a lovely new set of wheels from sdeals.com, and they provide a handy
>>> feature on their site that lets you customize them (navigate to the "wheels" section on
>>> www.sdeals.com). I'd like them to be as light as possible, but I mainly want a set of wheels
>>> that will stay true and last, rather than shaving off milligrams here and there to save weight -
>>> for that reason I think I'll go for 36 spokes rather than 32 (and I don't mind spending a few
>>> extra quid). I've also already decided I'm going to get Mavic CXP33 rims and a Shimano 105 hub.
>>
>>SDeals allow ordering odd wheels so you could get 36 spoke rear, 32 front.
>
>What a comprehensive reply. Thank you very much indeed Paul

Robbing Pete to pay Paul there. Sorry Pete

--

"Jokes mentioning ducks were considered particularly funny." - cnn.com

 

[Pete Biggs]

Chesney Christ wrote:

>> What a comprehensive reply. Thank you very much indeed Paul
>
> Robbing Pete to pay Paul there. Sorry Pete

No problem at all Leslie ;-)

cheers ~Boris

 

[Pete Biggs]

I wrote:
> Spokes are also more likely to come undone with radial and 2x.

According to Sheldon Brown, I'm wrong about that when it comes to 2x. Sorry.

~PB