Wheel lacing question



A

Adam Kadlubek

Guest
Greetings.

I am amidst building a recumbent bike for a little road riding.

Anyhow - I am using a 20" drive wheel with a disk brake, 36 holes. I
want to lace the drive side radially and brake side using X2 or X3
pattern.

Does this wheel have a chance to hold?

Regards
--
Adam Kadlubek
 
Adam Kadlubek wrote:
> Greetings.
>
> I am amidst building a recumbent bike for a little road riding.
>
> Anyhow - I am using a 20" drive wheel with a disk brake, 36 holes. I
> want to lace the drive side radially and brake side using X2 or X3
> pattern.
>
> Does this wheel have a chance to hold?
>


Why would you "want" to lace the drive side radially? The question here
shouldn't be "can I", but "should I"?

The answer to that question is no. Radial spoking offers little
torsional strength, and since drive-side spokes are under more tension,
crossing them will create a much stronger wheel.

Dan
 
Adam Kadlubek wrote:
> Greetings.
>
> I am amidst building a recumbent bike for a little road riding.
>
> Anyhow - I am using a 20" drive wheel with a disk brake, 36 holes. I
> want to lace the drive side radially and brake side using X2 or X3
> pattern.
>
> Does this wheel have a chance to hold?
>
> Regards
> --
> Adam Kadlubek



Radially lacing the drive side will help even out the difference in
tensions between drive and non-drive especially if you lace with heads
in on the drive and have a larger flange dia. Generally it will only
even out tensions by a maximum of 100n over a 3x drive and non-drive
wheel. This will depend largly on flange diameter. A smaller flange
diameter will even out spoke tensions to a lesser degree. The
disadvantages are that the drive side will have to wind up a decent
amont before it can create enough torque to counter the drive forces.
This will decrease the fatigue life of the spoke causing premature
spoke failure. Also most hubs are not designed to take the stress of
radial lacing which can cause flange failure.
As for your final question, yes, your wheel does have a chance of
holding up but it is awful risky just to achieve that cool look or
slightly more even spoke tension.

Steve Sauter
 
Steve Sauter writes:

>> I am amidst building a recumbent bike for a little road riding.


>> Anyhow - I am using a 20" drive wheel with a disk brake, 36
>> holes. I want to lace the drive side radially and brake side using
>> X2 or X3 pattern.


>> Does this wheel have a chance to hold?


> Radially lacing the drive side will help even out the difference in
> tensions between drive and non-drive especially if you lace with
> heads in on the drive and have a larger flange dia. Generally it
> will only even out tensions by a maximum of 100n over a 3x drive and
> non-drive wheel. This will depend largely on flange diameter. A
> smaller flange diameter will even out spoke tensions to a lesser
> degree.


With a small diameter wheel, lateral spoke angles are greater and the
difference with spoking heads-in radially makes little difference.
The main problem with that method is that flange stresses are
significantly higher and can cause break-out. 36-spokes is a fairly
dense mesh of spokes anyway, so it doesn't require as high tension as
a 700c wheel.

> The disadvantages are that the drive side will have to wind up a
> decent amount before it can create enough torque to counter the
> drive forces. This will decrease the fatigue life of the spoke
> causing premature spoke failure. Also most hubs are not designed to
> take the stress of radial lacing which can cause flange failure.


If there is any wind-up, the damage will appear as hub shaft failure,
not something to do with spokes. I don't know how large the hub
center diameter is, but for such spoking it should be large enough to
withstand all torque going to the left side... which will occur.

> As for your final question, yes, your wheel does have a chance of
> holding up but it is awful risky just to achieve that cool look or
> slightly more even spoke tension.


Is this about appearance or function?

Jobst Brandt
 
On 10 Dec 2006 09:34:26 -0800, "Adam Kadlubek" <[email protected]>
may have said:

>Greetings.
>
>I am amidst building a recumbent bike for a little road riding.
>
>Anyhow - I am using a 20" drive wheel with a disk brake, 36 holes. I
>want to lace the drive side radially and brake side using X2 or X3
>pattern.
>
>Does this wheel have a chance to hold?


You didn't say what kind of hub; with a typical aluminum-flange hub,
I'd call that a failure waiting to happen.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
 
Werehatrack wrote:
> On 10 Dec 2006 09:34:26 -0800, "Adam Kadlubek" <[email protected]>
> may have said:
>
> >Greetings.
> >
> >I am amidst building a recumbent bike for a little road riding.
> >
> >Anyhow - I am using a 20" drive wheel with a disk brake, 36 holes. I
> >want to lace the drive side radially and brake side using X2 or X3
> >pattern.
> >
> >Does this wheel have a chance to hold?

>
> You didn't say what kind of hub; with a typical aluminum-flange hub,
> I'd call that a failure waiting to happen.
>


If it is a typical *disk-brake* hub, it will probably be OK. These hubs
usually have a large central barrel, which will resist torsional twist
nicely. A 20" wheel with 36 spokes is hugely overbuilt for road riding
anyway- this is the same specification that BMX riders use for racing.

If it were my wheel, I would build it with 24 spokes, cross-2 on both
sides. Finding the appropriate rims and hubs becomes a problem, though.

Jeff
 
Adam Kadlubek wrote:
> Greetings.
>
> I am amidst building a recumbent bike for a little road riding.
>
> Anyhow - I am using a 20" drive wheel with a disk brake, 36 holes. I
> want to lace the drive side radially and brake side using X2 or X3
> pattern.
>
> Does this wheel have a chance to hold?
>
> Regards
> --
> Adam Kadlubek


If the hub is a standard hub, you may twist the center section..NO
reasi=on the lace radially, anywhere really.
 
Thanks everybody for your answers.

Yes - I am vain, therefore I want to build such wheel just for its
style, but since I like my bikes to be maintenece free (read: I am a
lazy a**) then I think I'll stick to typical lacing :)

Regards
--
Adam Kadlubek