Wheel Master Spokes OK for non-critical wheels?

landotter said:

I built my first wheel out of necessity a couple days ago, and was
flabbergasted at how simple it was, so I'm considering upgrading a
small fleet of 4-5 ancient bikes with steel rims to all be consistent
700c to make life a bit more simple. All have the proper clearances,
etc. Fwiw, it was my first lacing, but I've been "destressing" and
truing wheels for years, which are the blacker of the arts--well that's
what I hear. :-P

At any rate, I know Wheelsmith and DT make fabulous spokes, I've had
wheels with either, and never broken a spoke. Then again, I've only
broken a single spoke in the past decade, and it was a smooth head
generic version. I can live with that.

So I'm thinking about upgrading the "fleet" to something like basic
Alex DM18 rims, as I've got a bunch of people visiting in the spring,
and we'll be biking around town a bit, and I want folks to be able to
stop. This isn't racing or any sort of critical use, so I'm thinking
about going cheap on the spokes.

Wheel Master spokes would save me a hundred clams or so. Any reason not
to use 'em? Anybody have experience with them? If you have, can you
tell me if they come with nipples or not? Are they complete [censored], or
just the thing for crusty three speeds ridden at 12mph?

I haven't built with them and don't know anything factual about how far
no-name spoke makers have come in terms of matching the premium ones
for quality (probably pretty far I'd guess, but I think earlier this
year there was a huge recall involving a Taiwanese spoke maker that
skimped on materials or something, so probably not all the way). You
might check this out though:
http://74.8.32.132/nondealer/view.phtml?f_cat=SPOKES%3A+WHEEL+MASTER .
WheelMaster is a J&B house brand and the page is the same thing a
dealer would see except without wholesale prices and this is where all
these spokes come from at the moment... so as the page shows, all but
some plated ones come with nipples.

I think they'll probably be fine for what you're thinking about.

landotter said:

Wheel Master spokes would save me a hundred clams or so. Any reason not
to use 'em? Anybody have experience with them?

I've used them, and found them entirely satisfactory. I've had no
breakages. I don't remember whether they come with nipples or not.

Another budget-friendly option (If you are located in the USA) is Sapim
spokes from danscomp.com, cut to order with brass nipples included at a
price of $14 for a bag of 50. Sapim spokes are Belgian-made and of top
quality, on a par with DT and Wheelsmith spokes.

Chalo

"landotter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I built my first wheel out of necessity a couple days ago, and was
flabbergasted at how simple it was, so I'm considering upgrading a
small fleet of 4-5 ancient bikes with steel rims to all be consistent
700c to make life a bit more simple. All have the proper clearances,
etc. Fwiw, it was my first lacing, but I've been "destressing" and
truing wheels for years, which are the blacker of the arts--well that's
what I hear. :-P

At any rate, I know Wheelsmith and DT make fabulous spokes, I've had
wheels with either, and never broken a spoke. Then again, I've only
broken a single spoke in the past decade, and it was a smooth head
generic version. I can live with that.

So I'm thinking about upgrading the "fleet" to something like basic
Alex DM18 rims, as I've got a bunch of people visiting in the spring,
and we'll be biking around town a bit, and I want folks to be able to
stop. This isn't racing or any sort of critical use, so I'm thinking
about going cheap on the spokes.

Wheel Master spokes would save me a hundred clams or so. Any reason not
to use 'em? Anybody have experience with them? If you have, can you
tell me if they come with nipples or not? Are they complete [censored], or
just the thing for crusty three speeds ridden at 12mph?

I have used Wheelmaster spokes no problem.
I haven't run into any problems with them. The cheaper plated spokes might
rust one day, but what the heck.

Earl Bollinger said:

"landotter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I built my first wheel out of necessity a couple days ago, and was
flabbergasted at how simple it was, so I'm considering upgrading a
small fleet of 4-5 ancient bikes with steel rims to all be consistent
700c to make life a bit more simple. All have the proper clearances,
etc. Fwiw, it was my first lacing, but I've been "destressing" and
truing wheels for years, which are the blacker of the arts--well that's
what I hear. :-P

At any rate, I know Wheelsmith and DT make fabulous spokes, I've had
wheels with either, and never broken a spoke. Then again, I've only
broken a single spoke in the past decade, and it was a smooth head
generic version. I can live with that.

So I'm thinking about upgrading the "fleet" to something like basic
Alex DM18 rims, as I've got a bunch of people visiting in the spring,
and we'll be biking around town a bit, and I want folks to be able to
stop. This isn't racing or any sort of critical use, so I'm thinking
about going cheap on the spokes.

Wheel Master spokes would save me a hundred clams or so. Any reason not
to use 'em? Anybody have experience with them? If you have, can you
tell me if they come with nipples or not? Are they complete [censored], or
just the thing for crusty three speeds ridden at 12mph?

I have used Wheelmaster spokes no problem.
I haven't run into any problems with them. The cheaper plated spokes might
rust one day, but what the heck.

LOL, yeah, I was thinking about truly slumming and going with zinc
plated ones. 😄

Thanks, ya'll. Pretty much what I expected. They is what they is.

Remember if they came with nips, Earl? Or if they fit DT or WS nips?

landotter said:

Earl Bollinger said:

"landotter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I built my first wheel out of necessity a couple days ago, and was
flabbergasted at how simple it was, so I'm considering upgrading a
small fleet of 4-5 ancient bikes with steel rims to all be consistent
700c to make life a bit more simple. All have the proper clearances,
etc. Fwiw, it was my first lacing, but I've been "destressing" and
truing wheels for years, which are the blacker of the arts--well that's
what I hear. :-P

At any rate, I know Wheelsmith and DT make fabulous spokes, I've had
wheels with either, and never broken a spoke. Then again, I've only
broken a single spoke in the past decade, and it was a smooth head
generic version. I can live with that.

So I'm thinking about upgrading the "fleet" to something like basic
Alex DM18 rims, as I've got a bunch of people visiting in the spring,
and we'll be biking around town a bit, and I want folks to be able to
stop. This isn't racing or any sort of critical use, so I'm thinking
about going cheap on the spokes.

Wheel Master spokes would save me a hundred clams or so. Any reason not
to use 'em? Anybody have experience with them? If you have, can you
tell me if they come with nipples or not? Are they complete [censored], or
just the thing for crusty three speeds ridden at 12mph?

I have used Wheelmaster spokes no problem.
I haven't run into any problems with them. The cheaper plated spokes might
rust one day, but what the heck.

LOL, yeah, I was thinking about truly slumming and going with zinc
plated ones. 😄

Thanks, ya'll. Pretty much what I expected. They is what they is.

Remember if they came with nips, Earl? Or if they fit DT or WS nips?

Eric, & list:

I use Wheelmaster stainless spokes quite a bit. They are just 2.0
plain gauge and the nipples (yes they come with nipples) are a little
coarse, but they lace up just fine. I would use TiPrep or antiseize
compound is all. They wholesale for $12 a box (72), so if you have a
J&B account or a friend at a bike shop, you should be able to get them
pretty cheap.

good luck

jn

"Thursday"

"landotter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Earl Bollinger said:

"landotter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I built my first wheel out of necessity a couple days ago, and was
flabbergasted at how simple it was, so I'm considering upgrading a
small fleet of 4-5 ancient bikes with steel rims to all be consistent
700c to make life a bit more simple. All have the proper clearances,
etc. Fwiw, it was my first lacing, but I've been "destressing" and
truing wheels for years, which are the blacker of the arts--well that's
what I hear. :-P

At any rate, I know Wheelsmith and DT make fabulous spokes, I've had
wheels with either, and never broken a spoke. Then again, I've only
broken a single spoke in the past decade, and it was a smooth head
generic version. I can live with that.

So I'm thinking about upgrading the "fleet" to something like basic
Alex DM18 rims, as I've got a bunch of people visiting in the spring,
and we'll be biking around town a bit, and I want folks to be able to
stop. This isn't racing or any sort of critical use, so I'm thinking
about going cheap on the spokes.

Wheel Master spokes would save me a hundred clams or so. Any reason not
to use 'em? Anybody have experience with them? If you have, can you
tell me if they come with nipples or not? Are they complete [censored], or
just the thing for crusty three speeds ridden at 12mph?

I have used Wheelmaster spokes no problem.
I haven't run into any problems with them. The cheaper plated spokes
might
rust one day, but what the heck.

LOL, yeah, I was thinking about truly slumming and going with zinc
plated ones. 😄

Thanks, ya'll. Pretty much what I expected. They is what they is.

Remember if they came with nips, Earl? Or if they fit DT or WS nips?

The ones I got came with their own nipples. Chrome plated brass nipples too.
So far I haven't had any Wheel master spokes pop, but I have had a number of
DT spokes let go.

Earl Bollinger said:

"landotter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Earl Bollinger said:

"landotter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>I built my first wheel out of necessity a couple days ago, and was
> flabbergasted at how simple it was, so I'm considering upgrading a
> small fleet of 4-5 ancient bikes with steel rims to all be consistent
> 700c to make life a bit more simple. All have the proper clearances,
> etc. Fwiw, it was my first lacing, but I've been "destressing" and
> truing wheels for years, which are the blacker of the arts--well that's
> what I hear. :-P
>
> At any rate, I know Wheelsmith and DT make fabulous spokes, I've had
> wheels with either, and never broken a spoke. Then again, I've only
> broken a single spoke in the past decade, and it was a smooth head
> generic version. I can live with that.
>
> So I'm thinking about upgrading the "fleet" to something like basic
> Alex DM18 rims, as I've got a bunch of people visiting in the spring,
> and we'll be biking around town a bit, and I want folks to be able to
> stop. This isn't racing or any sort of critical use, so I'm thinking
> about going cheap on the spokes.
>
> Wheel Master spokes would save me a hundred clams or so. Any reason not
> to use 'em? Anybody have experience with them? If you have, can you
> tell me if they come with nipples or not? Are they complete [censored], or
> just the thing for crusty three speeds ridden at 12mph?
>

I have used Wheelmaster spokes no problem.
I haven't run into any problems with them. The cheaper plated spokes
might
rust one day, but what the heck.

LOL, yeah, I was thinking about truly slumming and going with zinc
plated ones. 😄

Thanks, ya'll. Pretty much what I expected. They is what they is.

Remember if they came with nips, Earl? Or if they fit DT or WS nips?

The ones I got came with their own nipples. Chrome plated brass nipples too.
So far I haven't had any Wheel master spokes pop, but I have had a number of
DT spokes let go.

Now THAT's an endorsement. :-D I just wondered if they were dire, and
it sounds like they aren't. Crude tapping on the nipples shouldn't
matter much to me, I use an ancient oval Swedish spoke wrench that's 3"
across. Major leverage.

Very good news guys, and indeed, I know a guy at REI that can source me
stuff from J&B. Will probably make it a fall project. So three wheels
with CR18s and Wheel Master spokes to go. Can't be worse than dimpled
chrome steel and oxidized zinc.

Thanks a bunch!
-Max

In article
<[email hidden]>,

landotter said:

Earl Bollinger said:

"landotter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Earl Bollinger wrote:
> "landotter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
> >I built my first wheel out of necessity a couple days ago, and was
> > flabbergasted at how simple it was, so I'm considering upgrading a
> > small fleet of 4-5 ancient bikes with steel rims to all be consistent
> > 700c to make life a bit more simple. All have the proper clearances,
> > etc. Fwiw, it was my first lacing, but I've been "destressing" and
> > truing wheels for years, which are the blacker of the arts--well that's
> > what I hear. :-P
> >
> > At any rate, I know Wheelsmith and DT make fabulous spokes, I've had
> > wheels with either, and never broken a spoke. Then again, I've only
> > broken a single spoke in the past decade, and it was a smooth head
> > generic version. I can live with that.
> >
> > So I'm thinking about upgrading the "fleet" to something like basic
> > Alex DM18 rims, as I've got a bunch of people visiting in the spring,
> > and we'll be biking around town a bit, and I want folks to be able to
> > stop. This isn't racing or any sort of critical use, so I'm thinking
> > about going cheap on the spokes.
> >
> > Wheel Master spokes would save me a hundred clams or so. Any reason not
> > to use 'em? Anybody have experience with them? If you have, can you
> > tell me if they come with nipples or not? Are they complete [censored], or
> > just the thing for crusty three speeds ridden at 12mph?
> >
>
> I have used Wheelmaster spokes no problem.
> I haven't run into any problems with them. The cheaper plated spokes
> might
> rust one day, but what the heck.

LOL, yeah, I was thinking about truly slumming and going with zinc
plated ones. 😄

Thanks, ya'll. Pretty much what I expected. They is what they is.

Remember if they came with nips, Earl? Or if they fit DT or WS nips?

The ones I got came with their own nipples. Chrome plated brass nipples too.
So far I haven't had any Wheel master spokes pop, but I have had a number of
DT spokes let go.

Now THAT's an endorsement. :-D I just wondered if they were dire, and
it sounds like they aren't. Crude tapping on the nipples shouldn't
matter much to me, I use an ancient oval Swedish spoke wrench that's 3"
across. Major leverage.

Very good news guys, and indeed, I know a guy at REI that can source me
stuff from J&B. Will probably make it a fall project. So three wheels
with CR18s and Wheel Master spokes to go. Can't be worse than dimpled
chrome steel and oxidized zinc.

Those CR18's are unglamorous workhorses. You could do much, much worse.

--
Michael Press

On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 22:22:21 -0500, "Earl Bollinger"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

The ones I got came with their own nipples. Chrome plated brass nipples too.
So far I haven't had any Wheel master spokes pop, but I have had a number of
DT spokes let go.

Dear Earl,

Elsewhere, a post says that the Wheel Master nipples have coarse
threads, so I'm guessing that you mean the spokes pulled out (popped
out) of the nipples.

But please reassure me that the spokes themselves didn't pop or break,
they just tore out of the nipples.

Right?

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 22:22:21 -0500, "Earl Bollinger"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

The ones I got came with their own nipples. Chrome plated brass nipples
too.
So far I haven't had any Wheel master spokes pop, but I have had a number
of
DT spokes let go.

Dear Earl,

Elsewhere, a post says that the Wheel Master nipples have coarse
threads, so I'm guessing that you mean the spokes pulled out (popped
out) of the nipples.

But please reassure me that the spokes themselves didn't pop or break,
they just tore out of the nipples.

Right?

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

The Wheelmaster spokes did not break, or pop out. Yes the threading isn't
all that great on the wheelmaster spokes or nipples but it works.
No spokes have pulled out of their nipples. But I did find a couple of bad
nipples that would not screw on though.
The Wheelmaster spoke and nipple threading is compatible with DT or
Wheelsmith spokes and nipples as well.

What I meant was that I have had some DT or Wheelsmith spokes break at the
elbow. Two DT spokes broke about two inches up from the elbow.
But I have not had any Wheel Master Spokes break on me anywhere (knock on
wood).
It is easy to tell a non-stainless steel spoke from the nicer brand name
spokes by the metal colors. The Zinc plated ones are even easier to tell
apart.
But if the spokes are stainless steel you basically can't tell them apart
without the spoke heads on them.
..

..

Earl Bollinger said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 22:22:21 -0500, "Earl Bollinger"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

The ones I got came with their own nipples. Chrome plated brass nipples
too.
So far I haven't had any Wheel master spokes pop, but I have had a number
of
DT spokes let go.

Dear Earl,

Elsewhere, a post says that the Wheel Master nipples have coarse
threads, so I'm guessing that you mean the spokes pulled out (popped
out) of the nipples.

But please reassure me that the spokes themselves didn't pop or break,
they just tore out of the nipples.

Right?

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

The Wheelmaster spokes did not break, or pop out. Yes the threading isn't
all that great on the wheelmaster spokes or nipples but it works.
No spokes have pulled out of their nipples. But I did find a couple of bad
nipples that would not screw on though.
The Wheelmaster spoke and nipple threading is compatible with DT or
Wheelsmith spokes and nipples as well.

What I meant was that I have had some DT or Wheelsmith spokes break at the
elbow. Two DT spokes broke about two inches up from the elbow.
But I have not had any Wheel Master Spokes break on me anywhere (knock on
wood).

[snip]

Dear Earl,

Thanks--I guessed wrong.

Those DT spokes that broke "about two inches up from the elbow" are
curious. Did they break while you were just riding around, or was
something odd like a stick involved?

Jobst thinks that spokes shouldn't break at that spot in normal use,
as opposed to destructive testing:

"Failures at the spoke elbow or threads are nearly always
fatigue failures. In contrast, a forced break will usually
occur about 20 mm away from one of the spoke ends."

"Tension tests using new spokes of various brands show that
all high-quality spokes tested, butted and unbutted, break
at more than three times the maximum tension they could
encounter in use. The point of failure was, in all cases,
neither in the threads nor at the elbow. These tests
indicate that fatigue, in its various stages, plays a part
in nearly every spoke failure."
--"The Bicycle Wheel," 2nd edition, p. 34

(The 20 mm paragraph was removed from the 3rd edition.)

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

Earl Bollinger said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 22:22:21 -0500, "Earl Bollinger"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

>The ones I got came with their own nipples. Chrome plated brass nipples
>too.
>So far I haven't had any Wheel master spokes pop, but I have had a number
>of
>DT spokes let go.

Dear Earl,

Elsewhere, a post says that the Wheel Master nipples have coarse
threads, so I'm guessing that you mean the spokes pulled out (popped
out) of the nipples.

But please reassure me that the spokes themselves didn't pop or break,
they just tore out of the nipples.

Right?

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

The Wheelmaster spokes did not break, or pop out. Yes the threading isn't
all that great on the wheelmaster spokes or nipples but it works.
No spokes have pulled out of their nipples. But I did find a couple of bad
nipples that would not screw on though.
The Wheelmaster spoke and nipple threading is compatible with DT or
Wheelsmith spokes and nipples as well.

What I meant was that I have had some DT or Wheelsmith spokes break at the
elbow. Two DT spokes broke about two inches up from the elbow.
But I have not had any Wheel Master Spokes break on me anywhere (knock on
wood).

[snip]

Dear Earl,

Thanks--I guessed wrong.

Those DT spokes that broke "about two inches up from the elbow" are
curious. Did they break while you were just riding around, or was
something odd like a stick involved?

Jobst thinks that spokes shouldn't break at that spot in normal use,
as opposed to destructive testing:

"Failures at the spoke elbow or threads are nearly always
fatigue failures. In contrast, a forced break will usually
occur about 20 mm away from one of the spoke ends."

"Tension tests using new spokes of various brands show that
all high-quality spokes tested, butted and unbutted, break
at more than three times the maximum tension they could
encounter in use. The point of failure was, in all cases,
neither in the threads nor at the elbow. These tests
indicate that fatigue, in its various stages, plays a part
in nearly every spoke failure."
--"The Bicycle Wheel," 2nd edition, p. 34

(The 20 mm paragraph was removed from the 3rd edition.)

Meh, after I broke my one and only spoke in years, I threw a couple
spares in the hydration pack along with a spoke wrench. Don't weigh a
thing, and I can stop worrying and love the bomb. :-P It's a pretty
standard length spoke for small flange 3x affair, so I can always stop
and give it to somebody that's popped one. Indeed, back in the 80s when
I started riding, it was pretty common to carry a spare. Never saw one
fail anywhere but the curve near the head.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Earl Bollinger said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 22:22:21 -0500, "Earl Bollinger"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

>The ones I got came with their own nipples. Chrome plated brass nipples
>too.
>So far I haven't had any Wheel master spokes pop, but I have had a
>number
>of
>DT spokes let go.

Dear Earl,

Elsewhere, a post says that the Wheel Master nipples have coarse
threads, so I'm guessing that you mean the spokes pulled out (popped
out) of the nipples.

But please reassure me that the spokes themselves didn't pop or break,
they just tore out of the nipples.

Right?

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

The Wheelmaster spokes did not break, or pop out. Yes the threading isn't
all that great on the wheelmaster spokes or nipples but it works.
No spokes have pulled out of their nipples. But I did find a couple of bad
nipples that would not screw on though.
The Wheelmaster spoke and nipple threading is compatible with DT or
Wheelsmith spokes and nipples as well.

What I meant was that I have had some DT or Wheelsmith spokes break at the
elbow. Two DT spokes broke about two inches up from the elbow.
But I have not had any Wheel Master Spokes break on me anywhere (knock on
wood).

[snip]

Dear Earl,

Thanks--I guessed wrong.

Those DT spokes that broke "about two inches up from the elbow" are
curious. Did they break while you were just riding around, or was
something odd like a stick involved?

Jobst thinks that spokes shouldn't break at that spot in normal use,
as opposed to destructive testing:

"Failures at the spoke elbow or threads are nearly always
fatigue failures. In contrast, a forced break will usually
occur about 20 mm away from one of the spoke ends."

"Tension tests using new spokes of various brands show that
all high-quality spokes tested, butted and unbutted, break
at more than three times the maximum tension they could
encounter in use. The point of failure was, in all cases,
neither in the threads nor at the elbow. These tests
indicate that fatigue, in its various stages, plays a part
in nearly every spoke failure."
--"The Bicycle Wheel," 2nd edition, p. 34

(The 20 mm paragraph was removed from the 3rd edition.)

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

The two spokes falied at a point where two of the spokes cross each other
touching..
I think a scratch or wear point occured there at the criss cross leading to
the failure.
I figured it was just one of those bad luck kind of things.