I have two nearly identical vintage frames with Campy dropouts. I have had to insert a 1mm washer between the hub nut and the right dropout in order to avoid the chain hitting the dropout. No problems with one, but the wheel on the other one slips under pressure, such as standing up on a steep hill, and rubs the left chain stay. The quick release is very very tight. I thought that a serrated washer of some sort might help, but I can't seem to find one. Do such exist, and if they do, is it likely to help? And can anyone guess why one behaves this way and the other one doesn't?
On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 18:11:31 -0400, Bob Wheeler <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
I have two nearly identical vintage frames with Campy dropouts. I have had to insert a 1mm washer between the hub nut and the right dropout in order to avoid the chain hitting the dropout. No problems with one, but the wheel on the other one slips under pressure, such as standing up on a steep hill, and rubs the left chain stay. The quick release is very very tight. I thought that a serrated washer of some sort might help, but I can't seem to find one. Do such exist, and if they do, is it likely to help? And can anyone guess why one behaves this way and the other one doesn't?
Is the dropout chromed on the one that slips?
BTW, put a couple of drops of oil on the pivot of that skewer and see if it still feels like it's getting tight. -- Typoes are a feature, not a bug. Some gardening required to reply via email. Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 18:11:31 -0400, Bob Wheeler <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
I have two nearly identical vintage frames with Campy dropouts. I have had to insert a 1mm washer between the hub nut and the right dropout in order to avoid the chain hitting the dropout. No problems with one, but the wheel on the other one slips under pressure, such as standing up on a steep hill, and rubs the left chain stay. The quick release is very very tight. I thought that a serrated washer of some sort might help, but I can't seem to find one. Do such exist, and if they do, is it likely to help? And can anyone guess why one behaves this way and the other one doesn't?
Is the dropout chromed on the one that slips?
BTW, put a couple of drops of oil on the pivot of that skewer and see if it still feels like it's getting tight.
Both are chromed, and as nearly identical as possible. I can't think that it matters, but the dropouts were both aligned using the Park FFG-1 tool. The hubs are identical. I'll degrease the parts, perhaps that will help.
On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 18:11:31 -0400, Bob Wheeler <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
I have two nearly identical vintage frames with Campy dropouts. I have had to insert a 1mm washer between the hub nut and the right dropout in order to avoid the chain hitting the dropout. No problems with one, but the wheel on the other one slips under pressure, such as standing up on a steep hill, and rubs the left chain stay. The quick release is very very tight. I thought that a serrated washer of some sort might help, but I can't seem to find one. Do such exist, and if they do, is it likely to help? And can anyone guess why one behaves this way and the other one doesn't?
Is the dropout chromed on the one that slips?
BTW, put a couple of drops of oil on the pivot of that skewer and see if it still feels like it's getting tight.
Both are chromed, and as nearly identical as possible. I can't think that it matters, but the dropouts were both aligned using the Park FFG-1 tool. The hubs are identical. I'll degrease the parts, perhaps that will help.
it's not just a function of the dropouts, [although chrome is not good in this regard]. if you have quick-release skewers & they're the open cam type, not campy, they can be hard to tighten sufficiently to stop slippage in horizontal dropouts. werehatrack's question is to help with diagnosis and potentially provide a solution of this problem.
I have two nearly identical vintage frames with Campy dropouts. I have had to insert a 1mm washer between the hub nut and the right dropout in order to avoid the chain hitting the dropout. No problems with one, but the wheel on the other one slips under pressure, such as standing up on a steep hill, and rubs the left chain stay. The quick release is very very tight. I thought that a serrated washer of some sort might help, but I can't seem to find one. Do such exist, and if they do, is it likely to help?
(Campy) serrated locknut? What about putting the washer (or some sort of spacer) under the locknut? --TP
"Bob Wheeler" wrote: Both are chromed, and as nearly identical as possible. (clip) I'll degrease the parts, perhaps that will help. ^^^^^^^^^^^^ How about running a grinder lightly over the chromed surface--orient the grinder so the scratches are vertical, to hinder slipping.
This will not explain who one slips and one doesn't, but it could eliminate the problem.
"Bob Wheeler" wrote: Both are chromed, and as nearly identical as possible. (clip) I'll degrease the parts, perhaps that will help. ^^^^^^^^^^^^ How about running a grinder lightly over the chromed surface--orient the grinder so the scratches are vertical, to hinder slipping.
This will not explain who one slips and one doesn't, but it could eliminate the problem.
it could help, but i wouldn't do it. in my experience, a decent hub with serrated axle nut facings - campy are particularly good in this regard - pretty much presses through the thin chrome plate to indent the dropout beneath /if/ the q.r. is adequately tightened. "tightness" on the q.r. lever is not always a reliable indicator of tightness in the axle closure if the q.r. lever mechanism is not clean & free to easily rotate under pressure. an additional serrated washer is mist unlikely to be as good as a campy serrated nut facing, so if it needs to be spaced, as suggested before, put any washer under the facing nut, not on top.
I have two nearly identical vintage frames with Campy dropouts. I have had to insert a 1mm washer between the hub nut and the right dropout in order to avoid the chain hitting the dropout. No problems with one, but the wheel on the other one slips under pressure, such as standing up on a steep hill, and rubs the left chain stay. The quick release is very very tight. I thought that a serrated washer of some sort might help, but I can't seem to find one. Do such exist, and if they do, is it likely to help?
(Campy) serrated locknut? What about putting the washer (or some sort of spacer) under the locknut? --TP
I have two nearly identical vintage frames with Campy dropouts. I have had to insert a 1mm washer between the hub nut and the right dropout in order to avoid the chain hitting the dropout. No problems with one, but the wheel on the other one slips under pressure, such as standing up on a steep hill, and rubs the left chain stay. The quick release is very very tight. I thought that a serrated washer of some sort might help, but I can't seem to find one. Do such exist, and if they do, is it likely to help? And can anyone guess why one behaves this way and the other one doesn't?
-- Bob Wheeler ---
The extra washer is on the outside of the outer locknut? Bad idea, and I can't imagine anything that would make that workable. But the very simple idea someone else had, moving the washer to the inside, between cone & locknut, is the normal way of achieving wider spacing. That alone should make a huge difference.
If it still slips, and you've got one of the newer-style quick releases, switch to any Shimano or Campy model and the problem will probably go away. The difference in clamping action (between the old-style "hidden" cam and the newer "open" versions) is huge.
"Bob Wheeler" wrote: Both are chromed, and as nearly
identical as
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
possible. (clip) I'll degrease the parts, perhaps that will help.
Quoted message said:
Leo Lichtman said:
How about running a grinder lightly over the chromed surface--orient the grinder so the scratches are vertical, to hinder slipping. This will not explain who one slips and one doesn't, but it could eliminate the problem.
jim beam said:
it could help, but i wouldn't do it. in my experience, a decent hub with serrated axle nut facings - campy are particularly good in this regard - pretty much presses through the thin chrome plate to indent the dropout beneath /if/ the q.r. is adequately tightened. "tightness" on the q.r. lever is not always a reliable indicator of tightness in the axle closure if the q.r. lever mechanism is not clean & free to easily rotate under pressure. an additional serrated washer is mist unlikely to be as good as a campy serrated nut facing, so if it needs to be spaced, as suggested before, put any washer under the facing nut, not on top.
I'm coming into an established conversation it seems but in my experience the biggest variable is the skwewer. A skewer is a cam which translates the swing of the lever into wheel clamping pressure. A dry surface doesn't do that very well. Moreover the traditional 'bell' design has more leverage than many of the new open cam styles. As MrBeam notes a moderate hand pressure will emboss a steel end right through the chrome.
Assuming you've already checked to ensure the axle doesn't protrude so far as the outside face of the frame end, my advice is to swap out a traditional steel skewer. With some oil inside the head.
-- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
