Wheels,

tommydoc said:

Good afternoon folk, I am new to "Forums" and a friend told me join and ask around for information on new carbon wheels i was thinking of buying, they are the,, 2012 Zipp 404 Firecrest Carbon Clinchers Black Label Wheelset and looking to buy from a company in Indonesia called Penaklug Sporty Cv, they also trade with/under DIYTrade, has anybody heard or dealt with this company or can anybody give me info on a company that sells wheels at affordable price, i know it sounds bad but not racing but do a lot of charity spins and only after buying new Giant TCR and wanted put nice set of wheels on it, thanks for any help you can give me and look forward to hear from you all, thanks again, Yours in Sport Tommy.

That sounds like a great idea if you never want to see the wheels or your money...ever again. Indonesia and Malaysia are the hot spots for "low price" bike scams right now. As always, if the price is too good to be true, it's likely because it is.

If you're not racing, do your SAG drivers a favor and get a decent set of alloy wheels with a 32+ spoke count. I helped wrench for a charity tour last week (and rode). Those of us with decent alloy wheels had no problems, while a high percentage of the folks with carbon wheels, or deep-V rims with odd-sized spokes, or an otherwise non-standard wheel were nothing but trouble all week long.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by jpr95 [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

If you're not racing, do your SAG drivers a favor and get a decent set of alloy wheels with a 32+ spoke count. I helped wrench for a charity tour last week (and rode). Those of us with decent alloy wheels had no problems, while a high percentage of the folks with carbon wheels, or deep-V rims with odd-sized spokes, or an otherwise non-standard wheel were nothing but trouble all week long.

Truth.

I saw the same thing on TOSRV last weekend.

[bike tech]No, sorry...we don't carry any red, hollow, bladed, carbon fiber, high modulus, triple-butted, straight bulb-headed, 3MM x 2.0MM left-hand threaded spokes with the Gold, self-locking Scandium nipples.[/bike tech]

[fred]Well, can you true an 8-spoke, 100MM aero Forzamultissimodollaros wheel and just work around the busted spoke?[/fred]

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by jpr95 [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

If you're not racing, do your SAG drivers a favor and get a decent set of alloy wheels with a 32+ spoke count.

+1

A chap on the sunday club run had his pump fall and go into his rear wheel, it broke one of the few spokes and the wheel had quite a buckle in it. If that had been a more traditional 32 spoke wheel, the wheel would not have buckled half as much.

jpr95 said:

If you're not racing, do your SAG drivers a favor and get a decent set of alloy wheels with a 32+ spoke count.  I helped wrench for a charity tour last week (and rode).  Those of us with decent alloy wheels had no problems, while a high percentage of the folks with carbon wheels, or deep-V rims with odd-sized spokes, or an otherwise non-standard wheel were nothing but trouble all week long.

That's not the problem you make it out to be. Please specify what that high percentage was. Please specify what caused their problems (not "it happened cuz they didn't have 32 spoke box section rimmed wheels). Without data claims are just claims. By your claims, wheels that don't have 32+ spokes should be failing left and right all over the country, but there are no reports indicating as much.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by tommydoc [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Good afternoon folk,
I am new to "Forums" and a friend told me join and ask around for information on new carbon wheels i was thinking of buying,
they are the,, 2012 Zipp 404 Firecrest Carbon Clinchers Black Label Wheelset and looking to buy from a company in Indonesia
called Penaklug Sporty Cv, they also trade with/under DIYTrade, has anybody heard or dealt with this company or can anybody
give me info on a company that sells wheels at affordable price, i know it sounds bad but not racing but do a lot of charity spins
and only after buying new Giant TCR and wanted put nice set of wheels on it, thanks for any help you can give me and look forward
to hear from you all, thanks again,
Yours in Sport
Tommy.

If these are the wheels you want all you need to do is locate a reliable source who can supply them at a price that is reasonable to you. As far as the Sag driver goes he's not the one riding your bike. If they cant fix it so be it.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by alienator [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

That's not the problem you make it out to be. Please specify what that high percentage was. Please specify what caused their problems (not "it happened cuz they didn't have 32 spoke box section rimmed wheels).
Without data claims are just claims. By your claims, wheels that don't have 32+ spokes should be failing left and right all over the country, but there are no reports indicating as much.

Blah, blah, blah.

No, I didn't conduct some multi-million dollar study and meticulously gather data on wheel and spoke material, instances of failure versus miles traveled and all that jazz. I stated my OPINION that those people on tours riding on fancy wheels with low spoke counts have more problems--in part because those wheels are not intended for the purpose. Why? Because it's not a race, the riders don't have sponsors with large budgets, and each rider doesn't have their own mechanic following in a chase car.

Wheels were actually the #2 problem by my estimation. The top problem was people who didn't know how to oil their chains and lube their derailleurs and had very poor shifting as a result, particularly after it rained and their drivetrains were full of grit and grime.

Believe it or not, people can make valid, truthful claims without them being backed by exhaustive application of the scientific method.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by alienator [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Without data claims are just claims. By your claims, wheels that don't have 32+ spokes should be failing left and right all over the country, but there are no reports indicating as much.

I think the point is that if you're shopping for wheels keep your purpose in mind.

My main wheels are the Ksyrium SLs that came with the bike, they're rugged as hell for their weight, and I love them dearly (and I overhaul the cassette body annually whether it needs it or not), but if something fails when I'm far from home, I'm on my own. Likewise, I built my dream set of tubular wheels--box section rims, 32 butted spokes, 23mm Evos. With tires they're a bit lighter than the Ksyriums. I'm afraid to use them because I'd be the only one on tubulars and I'm afraid of stranding myself if I flat the spare.

Dr Lodge said:

+1 A chap on the sunday club run had his pump fall and go into his rear wheel, it broke one of the few spokes and the wheel had quite a buckle in it. If that had been a more traditional 32 spoke wheel, the wheel would not have buckled half as much.

Please provide evidence to support your claim.

oldbobcat said:

I think the point is that if you're shopping for wheels keep your purpose in mind. My main wheels are the Ksyrium SLs that came with the bike, they're rugged as hell for their weight, and I love them dearly (and I overhaul the cassette body annually whether it needs it or not), but if something fails when I'm far from home, I'm on my own. Likewise, I built my dream set of tubular wheels--box section rims, 32 butted spokes, 23mm Evos. With tires they're a bit lighter than the Ksyriums. I'm afraid to use them because I'd be the only one on tubulars and I'm afraid of stranding myself if I flat the spare.

If that's the point, it's a good one, but the idea that 32+ spoke wheels are required to get you through a century is total BS and is completely ignorant of physics. Since 2005, I've been getting along just fine--all 175 lbs of me--on 24/28 wheels or wheels with fewer spokes. That includes centuries that, by gosh, I survived without traumatic wheel incidents. No one has yet provided any evidence that sub 32 spoke wheels are the bane of century riders. By evidence I mean actual numbers, not exaggerated claims.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by alienator [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

No one has yet provided any evidence that sub 32 spoke wheels are the bane of century riders. By evidence I mean actual numbers, not exaggerated claims.

Absolutely. There are lots of rugged wheels with fewer than 32 spokes.

The point is that if you pop a spoke...something that can happen to ANY wheel...the SAG service will be MORE LIKELY to be able to repair them if they are conventional and commonly used 'standards'.

They will be MORE LIKELY to stock a stack of spokes and nipples for them.

They will be MORE LIKELY to be able to true them.

No scientific study required.

Try getting Century Cycles, a reputable pro-level shop that sagged TOSRV, to whip out a set of Lew carbon flexi-spokes or a spare Campy G3 driveside rear spoke.

Ain't. Gonna. Happen.

You want spare boutique spokes on your club ride? Go old school. Tape a few spares to you top tube or your seat tube or your seat stay. Sure...your new carbon wonderbike will look a little dweeby, but you WILL have spare spokes when you need them most. The same goes for that off-the-wall weirdo spoke driver you need and those bizarro nipples that are only sourced from East Timor.

If you do not want to look 'dweeby', spokes also fit nicely inside the seatpost. Shove a chunk a styrofoam or polystrene in the open end of the seatpost and then insert your spare spokes.

I am not sure why someone would want to use high dollar, bling wheels for pleasure or charity riding however.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by maydog [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

If you do not want to look 'dweeby', spokes also fit nicely inside the seatpost. Shove a chunk a styrofoam or polystrene in the open end of the seatpost and then insert your spare spokes.

I am not sure why someone would want to use high dollar, bling wheels for pleasure or charity riding however.

Great advice on spoke storage - very creative. But maybe some folks just want to run a single set of nice wheels on their single nice bike. I got this friend and that friend telling me about training wheels and race wheels but I've been doing both on whatever wheels are on my bike at any particular time for the better part of 25 years. The Zipps the OP asked about seem like a reasonable choice - fast, light, apparently tough enough for Flanders and Roubaix (maybe not for a clydesdale, but at least as far as the tubbies go Zipp decided the Firecrest design was tough enough to forgo their cyclocross option) and they use relatively straight forward spoke technology, but I am no wheelbuilder so would not care to comment on the maintenance of those or any wheels.

maydog said:

If you do not want to look 'dweeby', spokes also fit nicely inside the seatpost. Shove a chunk a styrofoam or polystrene in the open end of the seatpost and then insert your spare spokes. I am not sure why someone would want to use high dollar, bling wheels for pleasure or charity riding however.

Maybe because the want to or they like the wheels and the way they perform? Who cares? I'm not sure why the idea that you need at least 32+ spokes on a wheel is discussed as if it's the divine word of the gods. It's entirely possible and likely that blingy wheelset will be at least as good as Mavic OP's laced with at least 32 spokes.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by alienator [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Maybe because the want to or they like the wheels and the way they perform? Who cares? I'm not sure why the idea that you need at least 32+ spokes on a wheel is discussed as if it's the divine word of the gods. It's entirely possible and likely that blingy wheelset will be at least as good as Mavic OP's laced with at least 32 spokes.

You're still missing the point. Break a spoke on that blingy wheel a day or two into a week-long bike trip and you're likely done for the week. Not to mention there are likely to be inexperienced riders who might bump you and do more than break one of your spokes--they may ruin the wheel. Again, done for the week. It's just the wrong tool for the job. Not that it can't or won't work, but it's less than ideal.

In Soviet Russia...logic rule YOU!

[IMG]cyclingforums.com167Open ↗[/IMG]

16 spokes are just as strong as 32! Nyet! MORE strong! Thanks to Glorious Leader's new 5-year plan, all stores will now be well stocked with Trayvoncomp hollow red spokes for all peoples of the worker's party to unite and ride charity rides on!

Long live logic and science! Long live The Party!

Just did a quick weight calculation on using 28 vs 32 spokes.

Spokes weights used are Sapim race, except for 32 spoked front which can use the lighter Sapim laser

28 spokes: 2 x 28 x 5.95g = 333.2g

32 spokes: 32 x 5.95 (R) + 32 x 4.26 (F) = 190.4 + 136.3 = 326.7

In this combo, 32 spokes is actually lighter!

So better to use slightly more lighter spokes than fewer heavier/stronger spokes.

Capitalist LIES!

Only in Soviet Russia 32 holes more lighter and more strong! Like arm of Timofeyovich, Hero wheelsmith of all Komsomol!

In lacky running dog west, 32 spokes is air whisk! Not good for even runs of anti-cancer!