Wheels for touring bikes

Sojourner said:

Wow, I'm gone for 10 years, I come back, and lo and behold, the Helmet
Wars are still going!

Anyway here's an actual technical question focused at the opposite side
of the bike from where the helmet would normally reside.

I read on somebody's website that touring bike wheels should have at
least 36 spokes.

I'm getting a Terry Madeleine (ostensibly a touring bike, and don't
tell me about other wondermous touring bikes that are
stronger/bigger/better because NONE OF THEM FIT ME) which comes stock
fitted with Velocity Aerohead 32H wheels.

Now, I'm unlikely to ever do "fully loaded" touring - eg hauling me and
everything but the kitchen sink. But I would like to do some light
touring, with a tent, couple changes of clothes, a sleeping bag, rain
gear, like that, on some rails-to-trails type ventures.

So how important might it be to have big, strong wheels (eg asking
Terry to upgrade to a 36 spoke wheel, which I believe the aerohead
comes in)?

Not terribly important. I'm guessing you are a woman since you mention
the Terry Madeleine bike. Unless you are a very, very heavy woman, you
weigh a LOT less, even with all the touring gear you can carry, than
men I ride with every day. And these 230+ pound men are not destroying
their 32 spoke wheels. And no they do not unload the wheels by getting
off the saddle on every pothole they hit. So their weight is just like
the unsprung weight of gear hanging on the bike.

Quoted message said:

Thanks.

Sojourner

Sojourner said:

Wow, I'm gone for 10 years, I come back, and lo and behold, the Helmet
Wars are still going!

Anyway here's an actual technical question focused at the opposite side
of the bike from where the helmet would normally reside.

I read on somebody's website that touring bike wheels should have at
least 36 spokes.

I'm getting a Terry Madeleine (ostensibly a touring bike, and don't
tell me about other wondermous touring bikes that are
stronger/bigger/better because NONE OF THEM FIT ME) which comes stock
fitted with Velocity Aerohead 32H wheels.

Now, I'm unlikely to ever do "fully loaded" touring - eg hauling me and
everything but the kitchen sink. But I would like to do some light
touring, with a tent, couple changes of clothes, a sleeping bag, rain
gear, like that, on some rails-to-trails type ventures.

So how important might it be to have big, strong wheels (eg asking
Terry to upgrade to a 36 spoke wheel, which I believe the aerohead
comes in)?

I am about 215lbs, and I ride 32 hole Aeroheads, with the off-center
model in the rear. They are some of the best wheels I have built,
although getting the right tension is critical. I run them a little
high, about 110-120 KgF right/rear.

With that said, I do not think that the Aeroheads are all that
resistant to mechanical damage, e.g. sidewall damage from a pot hole.
If I were doing real, loaded touring at my weight, I would use a wider
box-section rim and maybe 36 holes. For you and for light touring, the
32 hole Aeroheads probably are fine. -- Jay Beattie.

Sojourner said:

Wow, I'm gone for 10 years, I come back, and lo and behold, the Helmet
Wars are still going!

Anyway here's an actual technical question focused at the opposite side
of the bike from where the helmet would normally reside.

I read on somebody's website that touring bike wheels should have at
least 36 spokes.

I'm getting a Terry Madeleine (ostensibly a touring bike, and don't
tell me about other wondermous touring bikes that are
stronger/bigger/better because NONE OF THEM FIT ME) which comes stock
fitted with Velocity Aerohead 32H wheels.

Now, I'm unlikely to ever do "fully loaded" touring - eg hauling me and
everything but the kitchen sink. But I would like to do some light
touring, with a tent, couple changes of clothes, a sleeping bag, rain
gear, like that, on some rails-to-trails type ventures.

Not fully loaded? With a tent and multiple changes of clothes and a
sleeping bag and raingear, and - I assume - cooking gear and some
amount of food - sounds like you will be fully loaded to me. What else
would you carry if you -were- to go fully loaded?

dkl

Quoted message said:

Not fully loaded? With a tent and multiple changes of clothes and a
sleeping bag and raingear, and - I assume - cooking gear and some
amount of food - sounds like you will be fully loaded to me. What else
would you carry if you -were- to go fully loaded?

Two changes of clothes amounts to around 8 lbs.

The sleeping bag weighs about 3 lbs.

Raingear weighs less than 2 lbs.

The tent weighs in at about 15 lbs WITH the tarp.

Say 5 lbs with water and cycling snacks, ID and miscellaneous stuff.
I'm not taking any serious amount of food, nor any cooking gear - I'm
looking at rails-to-trails TOURING, not deep-woods camping. I want to
eat out when I get there! And I have no qualms whatsoever about
washing my 2 changes of clothes at a laundromat, so I don't need more
than that.

So we're talking like 33 lbs total. Even if you add in another 7 lbs
for slop, it's still only 40 lbs. I could carry that on my back, and
if I can carry it on my back, surely my bike should be able to easily
handle it. At any rate, I consider that light and NOT fully loaded
touring.

But thanks anyway, LOL!

Sojourner

Quoted message said:

Not terribly important. I'm guessing you are a woman since you mention
the Terry Madeleine bike.

Yup, and a short, shrimpy woman, at that. 5' 2".

Quoted message said:

Unless you are a very, very heavy woman, you
weigh a LOT less, even with all the touring gear you can carry, than
men I ride with every day. And these 230+ pound men are not destroying
their 32 spoke wheels. And no they do not unload the wheels by getting
off the saddle on every pothole they hit. So their weight is just like
the unsprung weight of gear hanging on the bike.

Thanks for the input! I'll quit worrying about it.

First-new-bike-in-ten-years jitters, LOL!

Sojourner

Quoted message said:

With that said, I do not think that the Aeroheads are all that
resistant to mechanical damage, e.g. sidewall damage from a pot hole.
If I were doing real, loaded touring at my weight, I would use a wider
box-section rim and maybe 36 holes. For you and for light touring, the
32 hole Aeroheads probably are fine. -- Jay Beattie.

Thanks. And I guarantee you I'm not riding through any potholes, at
least not on purpose, so I don't think that'll be a big issue for me.
It's not likely to happen often, if at all.

Thanks for the input!

Sojourner

Sojourner said:

Wow, I'm gone for 10 years, I come back, and lo and behold, the Helmet
Wars are still going!

Anyway here's an actual technical question focused at the opposite side
of the bike from where the helmet would normally reside.

I read on somebody's website that touring bike wheels should have at
least 36 spokes.

I'm getting a Terry Madeleine (ostensibly a touring bike, and don't
tell me about other wondermous touring bikes that are
stronger/bigger/better because NONE OF THEM FIT ME) which comes stock
fitted with Velocity Aerohead 32H wheels.

Now, I'm unlikely to ever do "fully loaded" touring - eg hauling me and
everything but the kitchen sink. But I would like to do some light
touring, with a tent, couple changes of clothes, a sleeping bag, rain
gear, like that, on some rails-to-trails type ventures.

So how important might it be to have big, strong wheels (eg asking
Terry to upgrade to a 36 spoke wheel, which I believe the aerohead
comes in)?

Thanks.

Sojourner

I just got back from 500 miles around Tuscany, hauling about the load
you describe (plus an SLR camera and a few lenses) on some paved roads
and some gravel roads (strade bianche) on a bike with 32 spoke, 26"
wheels that I built myself. Two years ago I covered almost 1000 miles
around Scotland on the same bike (different rims/spokes, I confess, but
also built by myself). No spoke breakage problems. Like another poster,
I'm guessing that you're a female, and I suspect that you weigh a tiny
bit less than my 165 lbs.

I think that the quality of the parts used in the wheel and the skill of
the wheelbuilder are a major contributor to the longevity of a wheel. I
also think that wider tires reduce the stresses imposed on the spokes
(to say nothing of the rest of the bike and the rider), which is why I
tour on 26 x 1.75" tires.

Spokes themselves have improved somewhat over the years, modern
stainless steel butted spokes are much more durable than the old
galvanized spokes that are usually only used on the absolute cheapest
bikes these days. I sometimes wonder if people take this into account
when making sweeping statements about how many spokes a touring wheel
should have.

I would suggest riding the bike the way Terry specced it for a while, if
you're planning a camping tour you can get the wheels upgraded with
double butted spokes, wider rims, and perhaps a rear rim with offset
spoke holes to reduce dishing of the rear wheel, if the bike doesn't
already have these features. Rims do eventually wear out or fail,
whether from abrasion by gritty brake pads or hitting road hazards, so
when/if the rims need replacing that might be a good time to find a
skilled wheel builder and build up a set of rims exactly the way you want.

HTH,
mark

Sojourner said:

Wow, I'm gone for 10 years, I come back, and lo and behold, the Helmet
Wars are still going!

Anyway here's an actual technical question focused at the opposite side
of the bike from where the helmet would normally reside.

I read on somebody's website that touring bike wheels should have at
least 36 spokes.

I'm getting a Terry Madeleine (ostensibly a touring bike, and don't
tell me about other wondermous touring bikes that are
stronger/bigger/better because NONE OF THEM FIT ME) which comes stock
fitted with Velocity Aerohead 32H wheels.

Quoted message said:

From reading further down the thread, I see you have made a great

choice in a bike. You can trust the crew at Terry to have spec'd your
bike with sensible (to your needs) wheels.

Everyone I know with a Terry is quite happy. Enjoy!

Sojourner said:

Quoted message said:

With that said, I do not think that the Aeroheads are all that
resistant to mechanical damage, e.g. sidewall damage from a pot hole.
If I were doing real, loaded touring at my weight, I would use a wider
box-section rim and maybe 36 holes. For you and for light touring, the
32 hole Aeroheads probably are fine. -- Jay Beattie.

Thanks. And I guarantee you I'm not riding through any potholes, at
least not on purpose, so I don't think that'll be a big issue for me.
It's not likely to happen often, if at all.

It's not the "on purpose" ones that are the hazard.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the input!

Sojourner

Robin Hubert

Sojourner said:

Wow, I'm gone for 10 years, I come back, and lo and behold, the Helmet
Wars are still going!

Anyway here's an actual technical question focused at the opposite side
of the bike from where the helmet would normally reside.

I read on somebody's website that touring bike wheels should have at
least 36 spokes.

I'm getting a Terry Madeleine (ostensibly a touring bike, and don't
tell me about other wondermous touring bikes that are
stronger/bigger/better because NONE OF THEM FIT ME) which comes stock
fitted with Velocity Aerohead 32H wheels.

Now, I'm unlikely to ever do "fully loaded" touring - eg hauling me and
everything but the kitchen sink. But I would like to do some light
touring, with a tent, couple changes of clothes, a sleeping bag, rain
gear, like that, on some rails-to-trails type ventures.

So how important might it be to have big, strong wheels (eg asking
Terry to upgrade to a 36 spoke wheel, which I believe the aerohead
comes in)?

Thanks.

Sojourner

How much of a problem would it be to be stuck in the MON(middle of
nowhere) with a gooned up wheel? How much do 4 spokes and a heavier rim
weigh(ans-not much, part 2-MUCH streonger wheel, 36h, heavier rims). A
'touring' bike with 32h, Velocity Aeroheads is NOT smart, IMO-

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

How much of a problem would it be to be stuck in the MON(middle of
nowhere) with a gooned up wheel? How much do 4 spokes and a heavier rim
weigh(ans-not much, part 2-MUCH streonger wheel, 36h, heavier rims). A
'touring' bike with 32h, Velocity Aeroheads is NOT smart, IMO-

I love my Velocity Dyads with their agricultural low stessed spokes.
I've taken weeks to notice that I have a broken spoke, an advantage of
having so many and a tandem-rated rim.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

How much of a problem would it be to be stuck in the MON(middle of
nowhere) with a gooned up wheel? How much do 4 spokes and a heavier rim
weigh(ans-not much, part 2-MUCH streonger wheel, 36h, heavier rims). A
'touring' bike with 32h, Velocity Aeroheads is NOT smart, IMO-

Well, considering that she is a small woman [5'2"], I think the 32
will be fine.
I don't disagree with the idea that 36h would be the safer choice, but
I doubt she will need it. Providing that the wheel is properly built.

I now have 8500 miles on the Velocity Aerohead, DA hub, 28h F, 32h R
wheels that you built for me in Spring of 2004. They have been problem
free and only the rear has needed a couple of minor adjustments to
true.
My riding weight is aound 165lbs, most likely quite a bit heavier than
the OP.

Life is Good!
Jeff

use this -

http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCEqSection.jsp?sid=EquipTubesRoad

did you read bicycle mag tours wine country with a lemond touring
ferrari at 32?
outasight!
bring the LBS guide with you -wrap it around the pool cue
anyone have the address of it?

On 19 Jul 2006 20:53:17 -0700, "Sojourner" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The tent weighs in at about 15 lbs WITH the tarp.

PMFJI, but 15 pounds for a tent? Is this one of those old Sears/
Penneys canvas monstrosities, or do you park the bike inside the tent?
There are lots of tents a lot lighter, you know...

Pat

Email address works as is.

Sojourner said:

Quoted message said:

Not fully loaded? With a tent and multiple changes of clothes and a
sleeping bag and raingear, and - I assume - cooking gear and some
amount of food - sounds like you will be fully loaded to me. What else
would you carry if you -were- to go fully loaded?

Two changes of clothes amounts to around 8 lbs.

The sleeping bag weighs about 3 lbs.

Raingear weighs less than 2 lbs.

The tent weighs in at about 15 lbs WITH the tarp.

Say 5 lbs with water and cycling snacks, ID and miscellaneous stuff.
I'm not taking any serious amount of food, nor any cooking gear - I'm
looking at rails-to-trails TOURING, not deep-woods camping. I want to
eat out when I get there! And I have no qualms whatsoever about
washing my 2 changes of clothes at a laundromat, so I don't need more
than that.

So we're talking like 33 lbs total. Even if you add in another 7 lbs
for slop, it's still only 40 lbs. I could carry that on my back, and
if I can carry it on my back, surely my bike should be able to easily
handle it. At any rate, I consider that light and NOT fully loaded
touring.

Well you are right, 40 lbs is less than fully loaded; I did not
consider the need for the sleeping bag and tent but not cooking gear
and food for at least a meal or two. I'd have to know for a fact that
there's a restaurant or store coming up within a [very] few miles of
every sleeping stop to travel w/o food... bike can break, and you
didn't mention tools or warm clothing.

You did add 7 lbs slop, which is good, but I think that the sundry
items (camera, pocketknife, sunscreen, laptop, cellphone, 2 a/c
adapters) come to more than 7 lbs.

dkl

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sojourner said:

Wow, I'm gone for 10 years, I come back, and lo and behold, the Helmet
Wars are still going!

Anyway here's an actual technical question focused at the opposite side
of the bike from where the helmet would normally reside.

I read on somebody's website that touring bike wheels should have at
least 36 spokes.

I'm getting a Terry Madeleine (ostensibly a touring bike, and don't
tell me about other wondermous touring bikes that are
stronger/bigger/better because NONE OF THEM FIT ME) which comes stock
fitted with Velocity Aerohead 32H wheels.

Now, I'm unlikely to ever do "fully loaded" touring - eg hauling me and
everything but the kitchen sink. But I would like to do some light
touring, with a tent, couple changes of clothes, a sleeping bag, rain
gear, like that, on some rails-to-trails type ventures.

So how important might it be to have big, strong wheels (eg asking
Terry to upgrade to a 36 spoke wheel, which I believe the aerohead
comes in)?

Thanks.

Sojourner

How much of a problem would it be to be stuck in the MON(middle of
nowhere) with a gooned up wheel? How much do 4 spokes and a heavier rim
weigh(ans-not much, part 2-MUCH streonger wheel, 36h, heavier rims). A
'touring' bike with 32h, Velocity Aeroheads is NOT smart, IMO-

Exactly, why would you want to mess with this on a touring rig? I've ridden
36h 26" rims, 14ga straight spokes on my loaded tourer for 12 years with
hardly a spoke problem.
I could probably get by with 32, but what's the point, just to test fate and
see what happens? Not say all of you are wrong in that she'll probably be
ok, but 36 is good cheap, reasonably light
insurance, IME.
Simple and sturdy, the two most important things to remember for loaded
touring bike components. Light isn't in that list.

Not to mention, no one seems to be adding in things like pannier weight and
water. Four panniers range from light at maybe 6-7 lbs to heavy at >12.
Plus water weight, which can be significant depending on how far you're
between water sources. I've riddden high desert when loaded touring before,
carrying 200oz of water which is around 15lbs...

-pete (who had a front Dura-Ace STI lever die MON years ago, learned that
lesson)

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

How much of a problem would it be to be stuck in the MON(middle of
nowhere) with a gooned up wheel? How much do 4 spokes and a heavier rim
weigh(ans-not much, part 2-MUCH streonger wheel, 36h, heavier rims). A
'touring' bike with 32h, Velocity Aeroheads is NOT smart, IMO-

As long as she's not doing loaded touring, and the wheels are properly
built, I'm sure it'll be fine. A true touring bike will have 36 spoke,
or even 40 spoke wheels, but this isn't a real touring bike. For credit
card touring it'll be fine, but I wouldn't put a tent, sleeping bag, and
40 pounds of loaded panniers on it, without upgrading the wheels.

SMS said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

How much of a problem would it be to be stuck in the MON(middle of
nowhere) with a gooned up wheel? How much do 4 spokes and a heavier rim
weigh(ans-not much, part 2-MUCH streonger wheel, 36h, heavier rims). A
'touring' bike with 32h, Velocity Aeroheads is NOT smart, IMO-

As long as she's not doing loaded touring, and the wheels are properly
built, I'm sure it'll be fine. A true touring bike will have 36 spoke,
or even 40 spoke wheels, but this isn't a real touring bike. For credit
card touring it'll be fine, but I wouldn't put a tent, sleeping bag, and
40 pounds of loaded panniers on it, without upgrading the wheels.

Let us not forget that the rider in this case is a small woman of 5'
2". Just guessing, maybe less than 120lbs (?). So, in this case, the
rider + a touring load might weigh less than some large rider sans load.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sojourner said:

Wow, I'm gone for 10 years, I come back, and lo and behold, the

Helmet

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Wars are still going!

Anyway here's an actual technical question focused at the opposite

side

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of the bike from where the helmet would normally reside.

I read on somebody's website that touring bike wheels should have at
least 36 spokes.

I'm getting a Terry Madeleine (ostensibly a touring bike, and don't
tell me about other wondermous touring bikes that are
stronger/bigger/better because NONE OF THEM FIT ME) which comes

stock

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fitted with Velocity Aerohead 32H wheels.

Now, I'm unlikely to ever do "fully loaded" touring - eg hauling me

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

everything but the kitchen sink. But I would like to do some light
touring, with a tent, couple changes of clothes, a sleeping bag,

rain

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

gear, like that, on some rails-to-trails type ventures.

Not fully loaded? With a tent and multiple changes of clothes and a
sleeping bag and raingear, and - I assume - cooking gear and some
amount of food - sounds like you will be fully loaded to me. What

else

Quoted message said:

would you carry if you -were- to go fully loaded?

dkl

A credit card!