When to replace jockeys?

On 20 May 2004 22:00:38 GMT, David Reuteler <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Rick Onanian said:

Is it friction? I was under the impression that Campy levers offered
more trim (such as I requested) but were indexed, not friction...

they're not indexed, but nor are they friction. its a kind of ratchet,
each click moves the f/d a small amount .. it's like 3 to 5 clicks per
chainring (i have a triple). i (and i would guess most people) like
it quite a bit more than the shimano setup. it's certainly not a true
friction system with an infinite number of locations. it's finite.

My Shimano 105 levers offer two to three clicks per chainring ring
(also triple), but only on upshifts (pull the cable). I'd classify
Campy as indexed, just with more stops (and presumably they can be
accessed in both directions).

I have a screwdriver that drives in one direction, and freewheels in
the other direction, but does NOT have any clickyness whatsoever. It
is reversible with the rotation of a selector switch. I have a vague
guess that it's got a clutch inside that contracts with rotation, or
pawls that don't require detentes. I won't disassemble it, however,
because it's the only one I have, and I don't know where to buy a
replacement.

I have some tie-down belts, like the ratchet straps common in heavy
duty cargo securing applications, except the buckle holds them with
friction. For that matter, I think I once had a cloth pants belt
with a similar buckle. The spring-loaded buckle is shaped to easily
allow the belt to pass through in one direction, but it's knurled
surface digs in and gets tighter when the belt is pulled in the
other direction. By pressing down on the opposite end, it's forced
to open and allow the cable through. I imagine similar mechanisms, 2
or 4 of them per cable, used in a friction brifter. Such would allow
an infinite location ability.

Of course, that would be fixing a problem that already has a
sufficient fix, in the form of Campy's 3-5 click per ring indexing.
--
Rick Onanian

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The front derailleur is good enough for what it does, comparatively
rare shifts befween two or three big gears, but it's more prone to
catastrophe and seems to benefit from the easily wiggled friction
shifter, as opposed to the routinely indexed rear cluster.

This reminds me...when is Shimano going to offer trim in BOTH
directions? I do okay, but trimming down would be nice.

Hi Rick, they already do offer trim in both directions. My Dura-Ace
triple can be trimmed in either direction, in middle and large
chainrings. If I am in the large chainring, with the FD all the way to
the outside, I can lightly press the inner lever and it will move
slightly in. The next step is to shift down to the middle chainring.

If your cable is too tight it won't work properly. I was having
problems with the FD skipping the middle ring. Troubleshooting
recommends tightening the cable by turning the barrel adjuster. It
would work for a while, but if I tightened it too much I lost the
ability to trim to the inside.

This problem was really bothering me and I was going to start over. I
turned the barrel adjuster all the way back in and rechecked the top
adjustment. What I finally discovered was that I had adjusted the
outer stop, so that when I was in the large ring and smallest cog, I
set it to have a clearance of about 1mm, as Shimano recommended. Well
thinking about it, when I trimmed it in one click, I had rubbing on
the outer cage and it stood to reason that the next click was taking
it too far in. So, often it would drop just past catching the middle
ring.

I readjusted it so that the outer stop was further out. It then
shifted better in all ways, with less cable tension. It now trims in
all directions, smoothly, and most importantly, during my last five
rides and now 100 miles, it has never missed the middle ring.

I can't remember exactly how it worked, but I do know that my Tiagra
brifters also trimmed in both directions, but with less options. I
think the DA triple might offer the most trim positions.

I think you need to find out exactly how your Ultegra[?] or 105[?]
shifter is designed to work and then start over. It seems the less
tension on the cable the better. No tighter than necessary. I think
that you are going to be pleasantly surprised.

Life is Good!
Jeff

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The front derailleur is good enough for what it does, comparatively
rare shifts befween two or three big gears, but it's more prone to
catastrophe and seems to benefit from the easily wiggled friction
shifter, as opposed to the routinely indexed rear cluster.

This reminds me...when is Shimano going to offer trim in BOTH
directions? I do okay, but trimming down would be nice.

Hi Rick, they already do offer trim in both directions. My Dura-Ace
triple can be trimmed in either direction, in middle and large
chainrings. If I am in the large chainring, with the FD all the way to
the outside, I can lightly press the inner lever and it will move
slightly in. The next step is to shift down to the middle chainring.

If your cable is too tight it won't work properly. I was having
problems with the FD skipping the middle ring. Troubleshooting
recommends tightening the cable by turning the barrel adjuster. It
would work for a while, but if I tightened it too much I lost the
ability to trim to the inside.

This problem was really bothering me and I was going to start over. I
turned the barrel adjuster all the way back in and rechecked the top
adjustment. What I finally discovered was that I had adjusted the
outer stop, so that when I was in the large ring and smallest cog, I
set it to have a clearance of about 1mm, as Shimano recommended. Well
thinking about it, when I trimmed it in one click, I had rubbing on
the outer cage and it stood to reason that the next click was taking
it too far in. So, often it would drop just past catching the middle
ring.

I readjusted it so that the outer stop was further out. It then
shifted better in all ways, with less cable tension. It now trims in
all directions, smoothly, and most importantly, during my last five
rides and now 100 miles, it has never missed the middle ring.

I can't remember exactly how it worked, but I do know that my Tiagra
brifters also trimmed in both directions, but with less options. I
think the DA triple might offer the most trim positions.

I think you need to find out exactly how your Ultegra[?] or 105[?]
shifter is designed to work and then start over. It seems the less
tension on the cable the better. No tighter than necessary. I think
that you are going to be pleasantly surprised.

Life is Good!
Jeff

On 21 May 2004 08:23:41 -0700, [email hidden] (Jeff Starr)

Quoted message said:

I can't remember exactly how it worked, but I do know that my Tiagra
brifters also trimmed in both directions, but with less options. I
think the DA triple might offer the most trim positions.

If Tiagra does it, 105 ought to too, I guess.

Quoted message said:

I think you need to find out exactly how your Ultegra[?] or 105[?]
shifter is designed to work and then start over. It seems the less
tension on the cable the better. No tighter than necessary. I think
that you are going to be pleasantly surprised.

105 shifter, ultegra derailer. I've suspected that the cable is too
tight since the day I installed the new Ultegra derailer, as it
requires a stronger push for shifts to larger gears, and gives a
pretty harsh shift into a smaller gear.

Maybe I'll give it a shot. Everything is out of adjustment right
now, and this is a good excuse to change that rear derailer I want
to change...
--
Rick Onanian