Which if any cycling org. should I join?

Quoted message said:

I don't at present belong to any cycling organisation, and am
wondering whether I should. My two main reasons for joining would be:

1) to contribute to campaigns that defend the sort of road cycling I
do eg recent campaigns against changes to the highway code;

Quoted message said:

2) to support fellow cyclists where legal issues arise eg the Daniel
Cadden case; I'd like to support these cases because of the policy
issues they raise, and I also like the idea that some support is there
for me in the unlikely event that I need it.

Quoted message said:

I suppose I should have 3rd party liability insurance, but not having
it doesn't particularly bother me.

Quoted message said:

I know a little about the CTC but don't feel any afinity with them.

On what grounds? They top the bill for 1) above, they were instrumental
in the creation of the Cyclists' Defence Fund that's top of the bill for
2), and they provide 3rd party insurance as standard. You'll also get
legal help if you're the victim of a prang.

Quoted message said:

So, what - if anything - do other people belong to and why (or why
not)?

CTC, primarily for the exact reasons you give yourself for wanting to
join something. They are not perfect, but they're IMHO a lot better
than nothing.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Quoted message said:

Frustrations

* The way public policy sees cycling as a "good thing" - less CO2,
reduces congestion, reduces pollution, health benefits - yet we're
treated as outcasts. I think the laws protecting us are generally OK
(they could of course be improved) but 99.9% unenforced. The
injustices this leads to make me seethe.

People (and public policy) sees cycling as good
thing - for them.

It's the old "me traveller, you tourist" thing.

People "like" cycling because it frees up the road
for cars.

Even car drivers want less traffic, so they can
zoom around on nice clear roads.

(and I can state personally that the pyramids at Gizah
would be nicer without all the tourists standing
around gawking)

BugBear

Peter Clinch said:

Quoted message said:

So, what - if anything - do other people belong to and why (or why
not)?

CTC, primarily for the exact reasons you give yourself for wanting to
join something. They are not perfect, but they're IMHO a lot better
than nothing.

Me too also. Plus a couple of campaigning (currently in a genteel sort
of way) groups in my home area, partly to keep an ear / eye on what's
happening locally.

--
Brian G
www.wetwo.co.uk

Quoted message said:

I don't at present belong to any cycling organisation, and am
wondering whether I should. My two main reasons for joining would be:

[snip]

Based on all that, you should join the CTC to support their work.
The Cyclists Defence Fund is a more limited part of what they do,
aimed just at legal cases so e.g. the recent highway code lobbying
couldn't have come out of that.

I understand why you don't feel an affinity with them, but they
are the ones doing the lobbying for what you want.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

in message <[email hidden]>,

(' ') said:

I've been posting responses here for a little while, but before asking
my question, I thought I'd introduce myself properly. A few bullet
points:

* did a lot of cycling as a child; I now find it hard to believe that
aged 12 I cycled from Birmingham to Bournemouth with a friend of the
same age, staying in youth hostels; the following year did a big loop
through north and mid Wales; and all on a 3 spd SA;

* hardly cycled in my 20s;

* in my 30s bought something dangerously close to a BSO, did some
evening rides on Wimbledon Common/Richmond Park/Thames footpath;

* in my 40s moved to a village 600' up in the Cotswolds; the near-BSO
got me up 1 in 6 hills and stopped at the bottom going down, so it
can't have been too bad; it was eventually stolen by the local bike
thief (can't imagine he got much for it);

* near-BSO replaced by a 2nd hand early 90s Raleigh MTB/hybrid, a
lucky purchase from LBS - lucky because I was still pretty uninformed
at the time, and it suits me rather well (though I'm starting to think
about upgrading);

* I now commute by bike at least twice a week, 15 mile round trip, but
includes 650 feet of ascent in a couple of miles, so keeps me pretty
fit; have done my longer commute for the other 3 days of the week a
few times (30 mile round trip/1,000' of ascent)

* Occasionally hire MTBs for a bit of off road fun and also tandems,
but this isn't a major part of my cycling.

Ambitions

* To commute by bike 5 days a week - the longer route is on a rural
rat run, unpleasant when I'm not able to avoid rush hour, can't
imagine doing it in the dark in winter; most drivers round here are OK
though;

* To do some more cycle touring (probably somewhere with more reliable
weather than the UK).

* To do some centuries; was originally planning to start with
kilometres, but Danny's posting about Exmouth Exodus got me
interested, so I'm planning to do that this weekend (but may wimp out
if the weather doesn't improve a bit). I've also been fascinated by
Simon's 7 stanes reports, though I don't think I'm up to that.

Frustrations

* The way public policy sees cycling as a "good thing" - less CO2,
reduces congestion, reduces pollution, health benefits - yet we're
treated as outcasts. I think the laws protecting us are generally OK
(they could of course be improved) but 99.9% unenforced. The
injustices this leads to make me seethe.

* Public money being spent on cycle farcilities. Why do they do that?
Having said that, I like some of the ones based on old railway lines.
I'm happy to trade slowing down for dog walkers in exchange for not
worrying about whether the vehicle I can hear coming up behind me is
the one that's going to come that bit too close.

-----------------------------------------------------

My question:

I don't at present belong to any cycling organisation, and am
wondering whether I should. My two main reasons for joining would be:

1) to contribute to campaigns that defend the sort of road cycling I
do eg recent campaigns against changes to the highway code;

2) to support fellow cyclists where legal issues arise eg the Daniel
Cadden case; I'd like to support these cases because of the policy
issues they raise, and I also like the idea that some support is there
for me in the unlikely event that I need it.

I suppose I should have 3rd party liability insurance, but not having
it doesn't particularly bother me.

I know a little about the CTC but don't feel any afinity with them. I
know I can give money to the Cyclists' Defence Fund and may well do
so. Some local cycle campaigns look good, but there isn't one that
covers my area.

So, what - if anything - do other people belong to and why (or why
not)?

Like Peter Clinch I think you should probably join the CTC. This is a bit
hypocritical because I'm not a member of it myself, but they are the
organisation which does stand up for us on things like the Highway Code. I
wouldn't worry too much about insurance because you've almost certainly
got it already on your house contents cover.

Apart from that there are almost certainly a number of cycling clubs in
your area and while some will probably be more or less exclusively
racing-oriented others will not.

Personally I'm a member (and chairman) of my local cycling club, and also a
member of British Cycling. I'm a member of BC primarily because I organise
events, and it helps with the bureaucracy if the organiser is a member.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; If any council in the country has anything to say to cyclists
;; about cycle paths, it should be: "We are terribly, terribly sorry."
- Zoe Williams, The Guardian, 13th Sept 2006

Quoted message said:

So, what - if anything - do other people belong to and why (or why
not)?

Like others have mentioned, the CTC. I had been thinking
about joining for a few years, and then after hearing
about Daniel Cadden last year I joined.

Quoting <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

* To do some centuries; was originally planning to start with
kilometres, but Danny's posting about Exmouth Exodus got me
interested, so I'm planning to do that this weekend (but may wimp out
if the weather doesn't improve a bit). I've also been fascinated by
Simon's 7 stanes reports, though I don't think I'm up to that.

Besides the CTC; Audax UK?
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!
Today is First Monday, Presuary.

Quoted message said:

So, what - if anything - do other people belong to and why (or why
not)?

I'm a member of the CTC and considering joining the London Cycling
Campaign, and haven't done so simply because you can't pay online and
I can never remember where my cheque book is, and if I do find it I
can't find a stamp!

[email hidden] (Arthur Clune)typed

Quoted message said:

Based on all that, you should join the CTC to support their work.
The Cyclists Defence Fund is a more limited part of what they do,
aimed just at legal cases so e.g. the recent highway code lobbying
couldn't have come out of that.

Quoted message said:

I understand why you don't feel an affinity with them, but they
are the ones doing the lobbying for what you want.

Wot 'e said.

I'd suggest London Cycling Campaign if you were still in London. Both
offer third party insurance and legal advice; useful if things go wrong.

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

Rob,

You ask a very good question applicable to many others. The answer is
of course "it depends..." but here are some guide points:

1.
The CTC (which I joined twice and left twice in frustration) should at
the very least do three things for you:
a. Round up of news and issues in the magazine
b. Provide sources of local contacts who may know X who knows Y
c. Do 'good works' (in mysterious ways.)
Worth a year's subscription to find out more.

2.
Organised rides and challenges are not based on a single organisation.
Each is quite specialised and so you may need to 'join' or at least 'get
in the loop' of ones that are particularly interesting to discover how
they work, when things happen and who can introduce you gently. (The
CTC have local groups which typically have frequent rides.)

3.
Private cycle activity groups tend to work by local knowledge and
meeting people with similar interests. You could try an advert in the
village magazine.

4.
General financial support for national cycle campaigning[1] is one
possibility if you have no time. Otherwise local involvement in one way
or another is the key. A good example of National-Local is Sustrans.
They can't work without cash or local volunteers.

5.
Promoting cycling locally, (which unfortunately includes hours of
god-awful meetings with clueless but arrogant highways wonks from the
county council who shelter behind red tape and layers of inefficiency)
is a really good way of making a difference; and getting to know people.
Sustrans has already been mentioned, but there may be other local
organisations who would benefit from a cyclist even if it is only
offering the Scouts some of your time to show how to keep bikes in
repair. There is plenty of scope and a thousand "oh I didn't
realise..."[1] moments out there waiting for you on your doorstep.

6.
The parish council probably hasn't got a clue about cycling, and they
might be involved with PROW (Public rights of way) and providing
somewhere for people to chain their bikes up to at the Village hall.
You don't have to join officially, but if you are known to them as the
'bod-wot-know' and you know who's-who there is some chance of avoiding
smaller stupidities.

To conclude, I'd suggest
(1) You join CTC for a year and see what you can get out of it for 'days
on your bike' and
(2) try to get to know the local Sustrans people who may be able to help
you (and possibly you them) with the raft of background knowledge and
contacts required for becoming an authoritative local campaigner.

All organisations vary in competence and interests of their volunteers -
try and see. As time goes by your network of contacts will evolve and
you'll have lots of choices.

[1] Eexcept BHIT of course.

[2] Really, really simple things: How close the woods were on a bike,
how to change gear, how dumb it is to cycle in the hedge, how to carry
your library books, how to turn right safely at the Post Office, and
many others.

--
Peter Fox [2 Tees Close, Witham, CM8 1LG (Tel: Braintree 517206)]

Peter Clinch twisted the electrons to say:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I know a little about the CTC but don't feel any afinity with them.

On what grounds?

It could be the whole "Touring" part of the name? I know I managed to
get the very definite impression that the BHPC[1] was all about racing
recumbents, since I wasn't interested in that though I was interested in
recumbents I didn't bother joining. I've since learnt that this is not
entirely accurate, but I've still not joined ...

[1] British Human Power Club (http://www.bhpc.org.uk/) which I'm 99% sure
you already know, but I'll say this in case anyone else doesn't!
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

Alistair Gunn said:

It could be the whole "Touring" part of the name?

Look at their web page and try and find the word... It's "CTC - the
UK's national cyclists' organisation" these days, not "Cycle
Touring Club".

While tourers are catered for with a specialist department it's not
much more of a touring club than the RAC is "Royal" (or, indeed, a
club). The name is mainly historical baggage.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Quoted message said:

I know a little about the CTC but don't feel any afinity with them. I
know I can give money to the Cyclists' Defence Fund and may well do
so. Some local cycle campaigns look good, but there isn't one that
covers my area.

So, what - if anything - do other people belong to and why (or why
not)?

Rob

CTC because of Daniel Cadden.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ambitions

* To commute by bike 5 days a week - the longer route is on a rural
rat run, unpleasant when I'm not able to avoid rush hour, can't
imagine doing it in the dark in winter; most drivers round here are OK
though;

* To do some more cycle touring (probably somewhere with more reliable
weather than the UK).

* To do some centuries; was originally planning to start with
kilometres, but Danny's posting about Exmouth Exodus got me
interested, so I'm planning to do that this weekend (but may wimp out
if the weather doesn't improve a bit). I've also been fascinated by
Simon's 7 stanes reports, though I don't think I'm up to that.

Frustrations

* The way public policy sees cycling as a "good thing" - less CO2,
reduces congestion, reduces pollution, health benefits - yet we're
treated as outcasts. I think the laws protecting us are generally OK
(they could of course be improved) but 99.9% unenforced. The
injustices this leads to make me seethe.

* Public money being spent on cycle farcilities. Why do they do that?
Having said that, I like some of the ones based on old railway lines.
I'm happy to trade slowing down for dog walkers in exchange for not
worrying about whether the vehicle I can hear coming up behind me is
the one that's going to come that bit too close.

-----------------------------------------------------

My question:

I don't at present belong to any cycling organisation, and am
wondering whether I should. My two main reasons for joining would be:

1) to contribute to campaigns that defend the sort of road cycling I
do eg recent campaigns against changes to the highway code;

2) to support fellow cyclists where legal issues arise eg the Daniel
Cadden case; I'd like to support these cases because of the policy
issues they raise, and I also like the idea that some support is there
for me in the unlikely event that I need it.

I suppose I should have 3rd party liability insurance, but not having
it doesn't particularly bother me.

I know a little about the CTC but don't feel any afinity with them. I
know I can give money to the Cyclists' Defence Fund and may well do
so. Some local cycle campaigns look good, but there isn't one that
covers my area.

So, what - if anything - do other people belong to and why (or why
not)?

Rob

Rob,

I'm confused. The CTC appears to do everything you want, and a lot more
besides, but you "feel no afinity with them." I have to ask why you don't
feel afinity for a group which does everything you want? You don't appear
to have been on any local CTC group rides, have read their magazine, studied
their policy positions or indeed, to understand anything about the CTC at
all, so why do you appear to be antagonistic to them?

I joined the CTC about 25 years ago, and it's the best thing that ever
happened to my cycling, expanding my horizons, educating me about
cycletouring and what really makes cycling safe, getting lots of experience
from other members, some great Sunday rides, trips to places I'd never have
thought of going, and one hell of a lot of laughs on the way. If you live
anywhere near Bristol, come on one of the local rides, meet some great
people and have a good time. We don't even insist that you join first.

Tom Crispin said:

Quoted message said:

So, what - if anything - do other people belong to and why (or why
not)?

I'm a member of the CTC and considering joining the London Cycling
Campaign, and haven't done so simply because you can't pay online and
I can never remember where my cheque book is, and if I do find it I
can't find a stamp!

I joined the LCC online - I may have set up the renewal by direct debit
by post though.

Here you are:

"How to pay

"The most cost-effective way to pay for your membership is by direct
debit. Plus we are currently giving away an extra 3 MONTHS on your
membership if you set up a new DD. Simply fill in the form, print it off
and post to us.

"You can also pay for your membership securely online by debit/credit
card. Fill in the form and have your debit/credit card to hand.
Questions about security? Follow the link on the right. To pay by
cheque, fill in the form, print it off and post it to us with your payment."

So no excuses...

Peter Clinch said:

Quoted message said:

I know a little about the CTC but don't feel any afinity with them.

On what grounds?

Fair question, it's taken me a little while to think about it.

First reason is entirely superficial and I had to dig back in my
memory to find it - a teacher at school was the ultimate cycling bore,
the last person I'd ever want to go on a ride with. His enthusiasm for
them had the effect of putting me off. Along the same lines, the
"touring club" thing sounds dated, I'm pleased and reassured they've
dropped it. Again on the same lines, a local affiliated group about
which I used to read ride reports in the local paper calls themselves
the something "wheelers" - sounds like something out of the 50s to me.
No doubt they are perfectly nice people, it's just it doesn't create a
good image in my mind.

Rather more substantively, references I've seen to CTC in this group
have varied from quite critical (these usually on relatively minor
issues) to what seemed to me to be "damning with faint praise". I was
left with the impression that it wasn't entirely certain how much they
had contributed to getting the HC changed. I don't have time to read
everything, so maybe I've missed more positive stuff.

I guess I've been comparing a dated image of CTC with the bit I know
about some local cycle campaigns, which seem much more vibrant -
that's probably easier to achieve with local single issue groups.

Anyway, thanks for all your inputs, some of which were very thoughtful
- it's rather reassuring to see everybody swinging behind CTC, it's
got to be worth a year's membership.

Don't think I have time for some of the other ideas at the moment, but
I'll bear them in mind. The one local thing I'd like to achieve is
getting people to understand that the big hill I cycle up to get home
isn't that bad. People think I can cycle up it because I'm superfit,
but its the other way round - I wasn't that fit when I moved here,
I've become fitter by getting out there on my bike, and had lots of
enjoyment at the same time. But nobody believes that when I tell them.

Rob

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:57:52 +0100, Stevo <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Tom Crispin said:

Quoted message said:

So, what - if anything - do other people belong to and why (or why
not)?

I'm a member of the CTC and considering joining the London Cycling
Campaign, and haven't done so simply because you can't pay online and
I can never remember where my cheque book is, and if I do find it I
can't find a stamp!

I joined the LCC online - I may have set up the renewal by direct debit
by post though.

Here you are:

"How to pay

"The most cost-effective way to pay for your membership is by direct
debit. Plus we are currently giving away an extra 3 MONTHS on your
membership if you set up a new DD. Simply fill in the form, print it off
and post to us.

"You can also pay for your membership securely online by debit/credit
card. Fill in the form and have your debit/credit card to hand.
Questions about security? Follow the link on the right. To pay by
cheque, fill in the form, print it off and post it to us with your payment."

So no excuses...

Thanks for that, they've updated in the past 3 months. I am now a
proud member of the LCC and the CTC.

Quoted message said:

Again on the same lines, a local affiliated group about
which I used to read ride reports in the local paper calls themselves
the something "wheelers" - sounds like something out of the 50s to me.

Quite possibly the original dates back at least that long! CTC is past
its 125th birthday, so cycling clubs aren't new, and there's plenty of
clubs that have rather odd names because they're so old.

Quoted message said:

Rather more substantively, references I've seen to CTC in this group
have varied from quite critical (these usually on relatively minor
issues) to what seemed to me to be "damning with faint praise". I was
left with the impression that it wasn't entirely certain how much they
had contributed to getting the HC changed. I don't have time to read
everything, so maybe I've missed more positive stuff.

With the HC I think it's fair to say they were significant in the
process, but reading their press release you might come away thinking
that nobody else did a thing, which is /not/ true. Certainly the case
that individuals were writing to their MPs for a good week before CTC
seemed to have said anything, including suggestions to its members of
what to do.
But the thing about being the only national body shouting for cyclists
is that everyone demands and expects the world of it, and it's not going
to be possible to deliver on everyone's full wants and expectations
(especially if they spin up what they do in their press releases!).
You can't please all the people all of the time, and CTC certainly
doesn't, but I'm happy to opine that they are a generally benign force
and without them the cycle training options in the UK would be fewer and
worse, representation to government for cyclists would be worse, and the
lot of individual cyclists caught in RTAs of someone else's making would
be a lot worse off.

Quoted message said:

I guess I've been comparing a dated image of CTC with the bit I know
about some local cycle campaigns, which seem much more vibrant -
that's probably easier to achieve with local single issue groups.

Indeed. And to be fair I think there's a worthwhile place and function
for both.

Quoted message said:

Don't think I have time for some of the other ideas at the moment, but
I'll bear them in mind. The one local thing I'd like to achieve is
getting people to understand that the big hill I cycle up to get home
isn't that bad. People think I can cycle up it because I'm superfit,
but its the other way round - I wasn't that fit when I moved here,
I've become fitter by getting out there on my bike, and had lots of
enjoyment at the same time. But nobody believes that when I tell them.

That rings bells... ;-/

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

in message <[email hidden]>,

(' ') said:

Again on the same lines, a local affiliated group about
which I used to read ride reports in the local paper calls themselves
the something "wheelers" - sounds like something out of the 50s to me.

We started a new club in 2004. What's it called? Yes, you guessed it:

http://www.stewartry-wheelers.org/

Yes, it's a 'traditional' thing to call a cycling club, but
what's 'fifties' about it?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; For in much wisdom is much grief; and he that increaseth
;; knowledge increaseth sorrow.." - Ecclesiastes 1:18