Which is more flat resistant?

"Ken Bessler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Which is more flat resistant - a 24x1.195 MTB knobby tire or a 700x25 road slick?

Sorry that's a 24x1.95, not 1.195...D'oh!

Quoted message said:

The reason I'm asking is while I've had 1 flat in the last 100 miles on the road bike, my 12 year
old son has had 4 in the last 5 miles, despite my cautions to "stay on the pavement". His tubes
are starting to look like patch city. The flats are always caused by tumbleweed thorns.

Ken

Ken Bessler said:

Which is more flat resistant - a 24x1.195 MTB knobby tire or a 700x25 road slick?

Kobbies tend to be simply because there is more rubber to penetrate. Other factors like compound
hardness and kevlar belts are less important.

Quoted message said:

The reason I'm asking is while I've had 1 flat in the last 100 miles on the road bike, my 12 year
old son has had 4 in the last 5 miles, despite my cautions to "stay on the pavement". His tubes
are starting to look like patch city. The flats are always caused by tumbleweed thorns.

He's still riding over more thorns than you are!

You may be able to find him some tyres with deeper knobs - although they won't be so efficient and
comfortable as slicks on the pavement. Newer and better tyres may help anyway if existing ones are
well worn cheap ones.

~PB

Ken Bessler said:

Which is more flat resistant - a 24x1.195 MTB knobby tire or a 700x25 road slick?

More data is required; a general comparison would probably be worthless.

I'd expect a MTB tire to be tougher, but many 700x25 road slicks are kevlar-belted, and many 24" MTB
tires are really cheap.

Quoted message said:

The reason I'm asking is while I've had 1 flat in the last 100 miles on the road bike, my 12 year
old son has had 4 in the last 5 miles, despite my cautions to "stay on the pavement". His tubes
are starting to look like patch city. The flats are always caused by tumbleweed thorns.

Is he right against the edge of the road, and you ride a few feet out?

I'd bet he has cheap tires and you have good ones.

Quoted message said:

Ken

--
Rick Onanian

In my experience, the wider the tire, the fewer the flats. This gives a larger contact patch so
there is less weight on anything sharp you run over will not be pressed as hard into the rubber.
I've had really good luck with fat slicks from a flat perspective. I think sometimes the knobs of a
knobby can help lever sharp items into the tread but I'm not familiar with the problems of
tumbleweed thorns and whether this is an issue.

But given identical widths and carcass construction I would expect a slick to get less flats than a
knobby. In your example I would expect the narrow slick to have more flats because it is only half
as wide as the knobby.

Mike Mullen

"Rick Onanian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ken Bessler said:

Which is more flat resistant - a 24x1.195 MTB knobby tire or a 700x25 road slick?

More data is required; a general comparison would probably be worthless.

I'd expect a MTB tire to be tougher, but many 700x25 road slicks are kevlar-belted, and many 24"
MTB tires are really cheap.

Is he right against the edge of the road, and you ride a few feet out?

I'd bet he has cheap tires and you have good ones.

Quoted message said:

Ken

--
Rick Onanian

I have Discovery Kevlar CyclePro 700x25 tires, he has the stock 24x1.95 MTB tires that came from
Wal-Mart where I bought the bike. Also, his tubes are suspect - I replaced the front tube (it
exploded) with a LBS bought heavy duty thorn resistant one and now all the flats are in the rear
stock tube.....

Thanks for the tips/advice!

Ken

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Which is more flat resistant - a 24x1.195 MTB knobby tire or a 700x25 road slick?

Too many variables. How much air in the tires? How thick is the tread on the tires?

Quoted message said:

The reason I'm asking is while I've had 1 flat in the last 100 miles on the road bike, my 12 year
old son has had 4 in the last 5 miles, despite my cautions to "stay on the pavement". His tubes are
starting to look like patch city. The flats are always caused by tumbleweed thorns.

You need to teach him to recognize the thorns and ride around them.
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)

"Alex Rodriguez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Which is more flat resistant - a 24x1.195 MTB knobby tire or a 700x25 road slick?

Too many variables. How much air in the tires? How thick is the tread on the tires?

Quoted message said:

The reason I'm asking is while I've had 1 flat in the last 100 miles on the road bike, my 12 year
old son has had 4 in the last 5 miles, despite my cautions to "stay on the pavement". His tubes
are starting to look like patch city. The flats are always caused by tumbleweed thorns.

You need to teach him to recognize the thorns and ride around them.
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)

Better yet I'm going to start taking the repair costs out of *his* income......

I must say I am getting a lot of experience repairing flats....

LOL

Ken

Ken Bessler said:

Which is more flat resistant - a 24x1.195 MTB knobby tire or a 700x25 road slick?

Quoted message said:

The reason I'm asking is while I've had 1 flat in the last 100 miles on the road bike, my 12 year
old son has had 4 in the last 5 miles, despite my cautions to "stay on the pavement". His tubes
are starting to look like patch city. The flats are always caused by tumbleweed thorns.

"They" are puncture vine thorns (goatheads) aka Tribulus Terrestris:
or.blm.govpuncture.htmOpen ↗ tinyurl.comd0xoOpen ↗

Unless your son is picking up all his goatheads only ON the knobs, he would have as many flats. I
think you are riding along a different route than he. Get to know how the plant looks and avoid it.
Just as with poison oak, those who suffer most from it have no idea how the plant looks. Other
riders aren't plagued by this enough to mention. Just keep your eyes open.

Puncture vine grows only on barren soil and will not compete with roadside grasses.

draco.acs.uci.edu9.34.htmlOpen ↗

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

"Ken Bessler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Which is more flat resistant - a 24x1.195 MTB knobby tire or a 700x25 road slick?

The reason I'm asking is while I've had 1 flat in the last 100 miles on the road bike, my 12 year
old son has had 4 in the last 5 miles, despite my cautions to "stay on the pavement". His tubes
are starting to look like patch city. The flats are always caused by tumbleweed thorns.

In the case of something that's guaranteed to cause a flat, like a tack (or thorn, I guess), the
bigger the "target", the greater the probability.

"Ken Bessler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Which is more flat resistant - a 24x1.195 MTB knobby tire or a 700x25 road slick?

The reason I'm asking is while I've had 1 flat in the last 100 miles on the road bike, my 12 year
old son has had 4 in the last 5 miles, despite my cautions to "stay on the pavement". His tubes
are starting to look like patch city. The flats are always caused by tumbleweed thorns.

In the case of something that's guaranteed to cause a flat, like a tack (or thorn, I guess), the
bigger the "target", the greater the probability.

What you got there, sounds like to me, is the Trouble with Tribulus. Ye olde Goathead thorns.

Tribulus thorns laugh at "thorn resistant" tubes, kevlar belts, slime tubes, etc. That sh** is
worthless. Sometimes the knobbies of an MTB tire are big enough that thorns stuck in them don't
reach tube. But the thorns as you know eventually get stuck through the thin part of the tire.

Only cure for goatheads is to ride where others have ridden or walked before. Your son gets the
thorns because he hauls off across a vacant lot somewhere. If he stays on the pavement, or even on
the well-worn dirt paths, he will get about 90% less thorn flats. Figure out what the plant looks
like. Shouldn't be too hard. Then you'll know what you're up against. It's all over the durn place.
But the beauty of the goathead thorn is that it goes many more places than just where it grew up.

Good thing you're getting some flat fixing practice. In goathead country, you'll need it. Don't
forget to carefully run your fingers all around the inside of the tire after you think you've got
all the thorns out, just to be sure.

Robert welcome to goathead country

(R15757) may have said:

Don't forget to carefully run your fingers all around the inside of the tire after you think
you've got all the thorns out, just to be sure.

I prefer to check using either a cotton ball or a pair of discarded nylons; the damn thorns are
sometimes still a trifle sharper than I want to sacrifice a finger on, but they'll snag and pull on
either of the things mentioned. (The latter in particular, but that's a hard thing to justify having
in the spares bag.)

At present, to my *intense* relief, it appears that puncture vine remains absent from this area. I'm
pretty sure that it was the same nasty beast we had in parts of the Miami area some forty years ago,
though. The pictures looked way too familiar. Those spines would go right through a cheap tennis
shoe's sole. I went a long time without running into it, until I had to pry some out of a pair of
sandals a couple of times on my last visit to the left coast. (That's where I became acquainted with
the cotton ball or other highly snaggable fiber trick.)

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(R15757) may have said:

Don't forget to carefully run your fingers all around the inside of the tire after you think
you've got all the thorns out, just to

be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sure.

I prefer to check using either a cotton ball or a pair of discarded nylons; the damn thorns are
sometimes still a trifle sharper than I want to sacrifice a finger on, but they'll snag and pull
on either of the things mentioned. (The latter in particular, but that's a hard thing to justify
having in the spares bag.)

At present, to my *intense* relief, it appears that puncture vine remains absent from this area.
I'm pretty sure that it was the same nasty beast we had in parts of the Miami area some forty
years ago, though. The pictures looked way too familiar. Those spines would go right through a
cheap tennis shoe's sole. I went a long time without running into it, until I had to pry some out
of a pair of sandals a couple of times on my last visit to the left coast. (That's where I became
acquainted with the cotton ball or other highly snaggable fiber trick.)

Myth. Having run my fingers inside literally many thousands of tires, often with nicely mounted
glass shards, staples, wire, nails and evey imaginable penetrating object, I cannot recall ever
having cut my finger while wiping the inside of a tire. It may be theoreticallypossible but it is
unknown in the industry. Cotton ball indeed.
--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

Myth. Having run my fingers inside literally many thousands of tires, often with nicely mounted
glass shards, staples, wire, nails and evey imaginable penetrating object, I cannot recall ever
having cut my finger while wiping the inside of a tire.

I have once, on a flint. However, I don't think it's worth buggering about with cotton balls to
prevent one trivial injury in many years of riding.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Kill the tomato!

A Muzi said:

Myth. Having run my fingers inside literally many thousands of tires, often with nicely mounted
glass shards, staples, wire, nails and evey imaginable penetrating object, I cannot recall ever
having cut my finger while wiping the inside of a tire. It may be theoreticallypossible but it is
unknown in the industry. Cotton ball indeed.
--

Rare but not a complete myth. I've never cut my own, but a friend last year cut his finger enough to
bleed profusely, on a glass shard. He was rushing the job, trying not to keep the group waiting too
long. If you use reasonable caution, low speed and light finger pressure, not even the sharpest
debris will cut deep enough to draw any blood.

Dave Lehnen

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(R15757) may have said:

Don't forget to carefully run your fingers all around the inside of the tire after you think
you've got all the thorns out, just to

be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sure.

I prefer to check using either a cotton ball or a pair of discarded nylons; the damn thorns are
sometimes still a trifle sharper than I want to sacrifice a finger on, but they'll snag and pull
on either of the things mentioned. (The latter in particular, but that's a hard thing to justify
having in the spares bag.)

At present, to my *intense* relief, it appears that puncture vine remains absent from this area.
I'm pretty sure that it was the same nasty beast we had in parts of the Miami area some forty
years ago, though. The pictures looked way too familiar. Those spines would go right through a
cheap tennis shoe's sole. I went a long time without running into it, until I had to pry some
out of a pair of sandals a couple of times on my last visit to the left coast. (That's where I
became acquainted with the cotton ball or other highly snaggable fiber trick.)

Myth. Having run my fingers inside literally many thousands of tires, often with nicely mounted
glass shards, staples, wire, nails and evey imaginable penetrating object, I cannot recall ever
having cut my finger while wiping the inside of a tire. It may be theoreticallypossible but it is
unknown in the industry. Cotton ball indeed.

I got a wire from a steel belted car tire in my rear wheel. Running my fingers around the inside,
the wire split the tip of my index finger. I wasn't wearing gloves. I fixed the tire and left some
blood all over the tire during the repair.

Dave Lehnen said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I prefer to check using either a cotton ball or a pair of discarded nylons; the damn thorns are
sometimes still a trifle sharper than I want to sacrifice a finger on, but they'll snag and pull
on either of the things mentioned. (The latter in particular, but that's a hard thing to justify
having in the spares bag.)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Myth. Having run my fingers inside literally many thousands of tires, often with nicely mounted
glass shards, staples, wire, nails and every imaginable penetrating object, I cannot recall ever
having cut my finger while wiping the inside of a tire. It may be theoretically possible but it
is unknown in the industry. Cotton ball indeed.

I'll second that!

Quoted message said:

Rare but not a complete myth. I've never cut my own, but a friend last year cut his finger enough
to bleed profusely, on a glass shard. He was rushing the job, trying not to keep the group waiting
too long. If you use reasonable caution, low speed and light finger pressure, not even the
sharpest debris will cut deep enough to draw any blood.

Oh the bloody horror of it. This sort of story and "it happened to a friend..." is what
propagates this myth. With intent to get cut, even the inner edge of the tire bead can be a
hazard while running the thumb around the inside of the tire. It is the thumb with which this
exercise is best performed, it having a large enough surface and roundness to cover the area of
interest inside the tire.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

<[email hidden]> wrote: [cutting fingers on debris inside tyres]

Quoted message said:

Oh the bloody horror of it. This sort of story and "it happened to a friend..." is what propagates
this myth.

It didn't happen to a friend, it happened to me. That doesn't mean the resulting injury - a tiny
nick and a drop of blood - was worth worrying about, mind...
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Kill the tomato!

David Damerell may have said:

<[email hidden]> wrote: [cutting fingers on debris inside tyres]

Quoted message said:

Oh the bloody horror of it. This sort of story and "it happened to a friend..." is what propagates
this myth.

It didn't happen to a friend, it happened to me. That doesn't mean the resulting injury - a tiny
nick and a drop of blood - was worth worrying about, mind...

Mine was worse; the small scar on my finger is still visible thirty-odd years after I first got cut
that way. I got a lot more careful after that, but still collected the odd snag or scrape, and then
fairly recently someone who lives in the land of cholla spines showed me the other trick, although
it wasn't explicitly for tires in that case. If the materials are at hand, what's the harm in using
them? But hey, if anybody doesn't want to use that technique, they're free to ignore the suggestion,
because that's all it was.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.