Which training method is better for building base SST or Coggans endurance pace?

[MIHECH]

Hello,

well I dont want to make any mistakes this winter so maybe the experts here can help with this: Which approach is better for building base the SST, which is of course at a higher intersitiy or Coggans endurance pace, which is at a lower intensity or the new approach of Friel, which says to combine zone 1 riders with aerobic rides??Im a bit confused with all these approaches so maybe you help?I would very grateful.
Thanks in advance.

Miha

 

[Alex Simmons]

Hello,

well I dont want to make any mistakes this winter so maybe the experts here can help with this: Which approach is better for building base the SST, which is of course at a higher intersitiy or Coggans endurance pace, which is at a lower intensity or the new approach of Friel, which says to combine zone 1 riders with aerobic rides??Im a bit confused with all these approaches so maybe you help?I would very grateful.
Thanks in advance.

Miha

It depends.

Since we know nothing about you, your riding history, experience, goals, time available etc etc, there is no one correct answer for your question.

But a coach can sure sort it all out for you.

 

[MIHECH]

It depends.

Since we know nothing about you, your riding history, experience, goals, time available etc etc, there is no one correct answer for your question.

But a coach can sure sort it all out for you.

Well I am 21 years old and I have finished my first year of serious cycling with races and so on. My FTP this year at peak was 270 W...I am 1,82 cm tall and have 68 kg. I have pretty much time for training. So what do the experts here suggest me?Which method?The LSD method is out of use right?

 

[blkhotrod]

Well I am 21 years old and I have finished my first year of serious cycling with races and so on. My FTP this year at peak was 270 W...I am 1,82 cm tall and have 68 kg. I have pretty much time for training. So what do the experts here suggest me?Which method?The LSD method is out of use right?

100% LSD is out of use I suspect. In winter I like a typical week to have 2 or even 3 LSD workouts out of 4-5 total.......with the others being some low quality intervals and hill climbing. Need to enjoy winter training as hard mentally as it can be.

 

[lanierb]

Hello,

well I dont want to make any mistakes this winter so maybe the experts here can help with this: Which approach is better for building base the SST, which is of course at a higher intersitiy or Coggans endurance pace, which is at a lower intensity or the new approach of Friel, which says to combine zone 1 riders with aerobic rides??Im a bit confused with all these approaches so maybe you help?I would very grateful.
Thanks in advance.

Miha

My view: LSD is a waste of time unless your doing it purely for fun. During the offseason I think you should train FTP but hold back so you're never giving your all (don't overreach). Concentrate on SST and level 4 but don't kill yourself.

 

[rmur17]

aye it's hard to give advice without knowing your 'client'. even a free one
A good coach would ask many, many questions and get you set up on annual plan.

In the big picture, I guess there ought to be room in an annual plan for a chunk of relatively easy plain Jane endurance training. That assumes you have time, weather and daylight to make that practical.

Currently I'm five months away from solid outdoor group rides, six months from racing and I could do with a period of unstructured but solid training. The problem is: daylight hours are already cut quite short and soon the weather will make it even harder to get in long rides. IOW, it's just not practical to get in the volume of L2 training required to roughly maintain let alone build form (CTL for PMC users). I suspect that's the case for a lot of folks in the Northern Hemisphere.

So right now, i've backed off to pretty much pure SST training (1.5hrs typical) with the occasional harder workout thrown in when I feel like it. On the weekend I try to ride five hours Sat and three Sunday - a lot of that ends up in the tempo range but if I'm in L2 so be it. It doesn't matter that much this time of year. I just keep an eye to CTL and make it's not dropping too much w/o worrying at all about the details.

 

[MIHECH]

aye it's hard to give advice without knowing your 'client'. even a free one
A good coach would ask many, many questions and get you set up on annual plan.

In the big picture, I guess there ought to be room in an annual plan for a chunk of relatively easy plain Jane endurance training. That assumes you have time, weather and daylight to make that practical.

Currently I'm five months away from solid outdoor group rides, six months from racing and I could do with a period of unstructured but solid training. The problem is: daylight hours are already cut quite short and soon the weather will make it even harder to get in long rides. IOW, it's just not practical to get in the volume of L2 training required to roughly maintain let alone build form (CTL for PMC users). I suspect that's the case for a lot of folks in the Northern Hemisphere.

So right now, i've backed off to pretty much pure SST training (1.5hrs typical) with the occasional harder workout thrown in when I feel like it. On the weekend I try to ride five hours Sat and three Sunday - a lot of that ends up in the tempo range but if I'm in L2 so be it. It doesn't matter that much this time of year. I just keep an eye to CTL and make it's not dropping too much w/o worrying at all about the details.

How do I calculate CTL?Thanks for the answers. I also have to say I am pretty limited by not having a power metre, but that the way it is and I cant change that.

With best regards

Miha

 

[rmur17]

How do I calculate CTL?Thanks for the answers. I also have to say I am pretty limited by not having a power metre, but that the way it is and I cant change that.

With best regards

Miha

sorry for the very late reply. Without a power-meter, you're stuck I'm afraid. Good news is that with new lighter/wireless models coming out, the older yet reliable PM's can be obtained 2nd hand at decent prices. I've seen very lightly used PT Pro's (for example) going for around $500 USD (complete set-ups).

you can check out http://cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/

for a summary of the Power world.

 

[daveryanwyoming]

...Without a power-meter, you're stuck I'm afraid. ...

No doubt a PM is the best way to go for many reasons, but I think there's a lot of value in the Performance Manager or TRIMPS approach to quantifying training load even if you have to estimate workout intensities. Sure it won't be as accurate, but IMHO it's a lot better than just tracking miles or hours.

When I cross train in the winter with things like ski skating or riding my cross bike with no PM, I estimate my IF by asking myself how my workout related to my best one hour effort for that activity. I create a manual workout in WKO+ with that estimated IF and total exercise time. Sure it's a swag but that method did a good job of predicting training fatigue and recovery prior to my on-bike workouts. There's a lot of debate about the cross training benefits of other activities, but from a fatigue standpoint it seemed to model my training load really well. FWIW I tend to underestimate IF when in doubt since it's hard to mentally account for warmups and cooldowns and easier periods during cross training.

You could either build a CTL spreadsheet or for $99 buy a copy of WKO+ and enter manual workouts. Seems to me the concepts of CTL, ATL and TSB are so useful as a way of monitoring training load that they're worth using even if you don't have a PM and the estimates are understood to be rough.

-Dave