Whited sepulchres

[email hidden] wrote in news:hnqeo291pc0ipen1ps90psb37cg5ei0rs2@
4ax.com:

Quoted message said:

Better results could be obtained with hotter liquids, stronger
solvents, longer shaking, and a more powerful ultrasonic cleaner, but
it's likely that any cleaning liquid works only on the thin outer
edges of the pipe-shaped coating of oily grime between the pin and
roller.

Imagine pressing two plates covered with filthy oil together and then
trying to wash between the plates while they're still pressed
together.

The next time that you clean a chain, wipe it dry with a paper towel,
fold it up a few times, spray it liberally with WD40, and wipe it on a
fresh paper towel.

Carl,

Thanks for the report! It does make sense that it's next to impossible to
get to the film of oil between the links. On the other hand, it would
seem that the extra agitation of the ultrasonic gets more out than
without it.

I have a chain that I recently removed for cleaning, so I think I will
join you in attempting to find the ideal (if any) cleaning process.

Report to follow...

Cheers,
David

Solvang Cyclist said:

[email hidden] wrote in news:hnqeo291pc0ipen1ps90psb37cg5ei0rs2@
4ax.com:

Quoted message said:

Better results could be obtained with hotter liquids, stronger
solvents, longer shaking, and a more powerful ultrasonic cleaner, but
it's likely that any cleaning liquid works only on the thin outer
edges of the pipe-shaped coating of oily grime between the pin and
roller.

Imagine pressing two plates covered with filthy oil together and then
trying to wash between the plates while they're still pressed
together.

The next time that you clean a chain, wipe it dry with a paper towel,
fold it up a few times, spray it liberally with WD40, and wipe it on a
fresh paper towel.

Carl,

Thanks for the report! It does make sense that it's next to impossible to
get to the film of oil between the links. On the other hand, it would
seem that the extra agitation of the ultrasonic gets more out than
without it.

I have a chain that I recently removed for cleaning, so I think I will
join you in attempting to find the ideal (if any) cleaning process.

Report to follow...

Cheers,
David

Why not try some compressed air after the soak & agitation?

Quoted message said:

After cleaning my chain extensively with a recently acquired
ultrasonic cleaner, I sprayed it with WD40, noted that it left black
smears on a paper towel, put it back on my bike, oiled it, and rode 90
miles on pavement.

Tonight, I wiped the chain off, put it in a plastic jug, poured in
some Simple Green, and shook it for 8 minutes.

I washed the chain off in hot water, put it in the ultrasonic cleaner,
added hot water, and set the cleaner running for 8 minutes.

Meanwhile, I found a new use for the filter and paper that my
coffee-loving sister uses when she visits . . .

I poured the dirty water out of the ultrasonic cleaner, cleaned the
tray out, washed the chain off with hot water, and put the chain back
into the ultrasonic cleaner for another 8 minutes with fresh Simple
Green instead of water.

(I didn't re-use the filtered Simple Green, lest it contain sludge.
Come Christmas Day, I must remember to ask my sister how effective she
thinks her coffee filter paper is.)

I washed the chain off in hot water again, wiped it dry with paper
towels, and sprayed some WD40 solvent on the chain that had been
cleaned for 8 minutes by shaking in a plastic jug of Simple Green, 8
more minutes in hot water in an ultrasonic cleaner, and 8 more minutes
in the ultrasonic cleaner with fresh Simple Green.

Here's what two paper towels looked like after all that cleaning:

http://i17.tinypic.com/4bgc4z9.jpg

I suspect that many claims made in good faith about chain cleaning
were based on the shiny outside of the chain. There seems to be a
tenacious reservoir of hidden filth inside the chain rollers.

Better results could be obtained with hotter liquids, stronger
solvents, longer shaking, and a more powerful ultrasonic cleaner, but
it's likely that any cleaning liquid works only on the thin outer
edges of the pipe-shaped coating of oily grime between the pin and
roller.

Imagine pressing two plates covered with filthy oil together and then
trying to wash between the plates while they're still pressed
together.

The next time that you clean a chain, wipe it dry with a paper towel,
fold it up a few times, spray it liberally with WD40, and wipe it on a
fresh paper towel.

Matthew 23:27 comes to mind.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Dear Carl -

I use the on-the-bike cleaning method with Prolink. Liberally soak the
chain while spinning the crank backwards (a thick and wide blanket of
newspaper or neighbor's lawn is necessary due to spatter) and allow to
penetrate. Repeat until the Prolink runs clean from the chain.

Every 500 or so miles I use the bottle/orange cleaner/hot water/shaking
method. Takes 2-3 repetitions but I believe that the chain is clean,
even between the plates and in the rollers.

If I have the time in the near future, I will take an old chain I have
that has been subjected to the above cleaning schedule and clean it
with my on the bike method (with Prolink). Then, I will crack a few
links and take some pics for you. I will also do the bottle method and
crack a few more links.

It is interesting to note the earlier postings about an evaluation of
chain wear versus cleaning rigor. The upshot of those was that a dirty
chain doesn't wear itself out faster but rather wears out the
chainrings. Which suggests that even if the interior of the chain
retains some grit, it doesn't matter, but removal of exterior caked on
crud is valuable.

D'ohBoy

Earls61 said:

Solvang Cyclist said:

[email hidden] wrote in news:hnqeo291pc0ipen1ps90psb37cg5ei0rs2@
4ax.com:

Quoted message said:

Better results could be obtained with hotter liquids, stronger
solvents, longer shaking, and a more powerful ultrasonic cleaner, but
it's likely that any cleaning liquid works only on the thin outer
edges of the pipe-shaped coating of oily grime between the pin and
roller.

Imagine pressing two plates covered with filthy oil together and then
trying to wash between the plates while they're still pressed
together.

The next time that you clean a chain, wipe it dry with a paper towel,
fold it up a few times, spray it liberally with WD40, and wipe it on a
fresh paper towel.

Carl,

Thanks for the report! It does make sense that it's next to impossible to
get to the film of oil between the links. On the other hand, it would
seem that the extra agitation of the ultrasonic gets more out than
without it.

I have a chain that I recently removed for cleaning, so I think I will
join you in attempting to find the ideal (if any) cleaning process.

Report to follow...

Cheers,
David

Why not try some compressed air after the soak & agitation?

Why not buy a new chain?

yeah, what he said.......

Tosspot said:

Why not buy a new chain?

D'ohBoy said:

Quoted message said:

After cleaning my chain extensively with a recently acquired
ultrasonic cleaner, I sprayed it with WD40, noted that it left black
smears on a paper towel, put it back on my bike, oiled it, and rode 90
miles on pavement.

Tonight, I wiped the chain off, put it in a plastic jug, poured in
some Simple Green, and shook it for 8 minutes.

I washed the chain off in hot water, put it in the ultrasonic cleaner,
added hot water, and set the cleaner running for 8 minutes.

Meanwhile, I found a new use for the filter and paper that my
coffee-loving sister uses when she visits . . .

I poured the dirty water out of the ultrasonic cleaner, cleaned the
tray out, washed the chain off with hot water, and put the chain back
into the ultrasonic cleaner for another 8 minutes with fresh Simple
Green instead of water.

(I didn't re-use the filtered Simple Green, lest it contain sludge.
Come Christmas Day, I must remember to ask my sister how effective she
thinks her coffee filter paper is.)

I washed the chain off in hot water again, wiped it dry with paper
towels, and sprayed some WD40 solvent on the chain that had been
cleaned for 8 minutes by shaking in a plastic jug of Simple Green, 8
more minutes in hot water in an ultrasonic cleaner, and 8 more minutes
in the ultrasonic cleaner with fresh Simple Green.

Here's what two paper towels looked like after all that cleaning:

http://i17.tinypic.com/4bgc4z9.jpg

I suspect that many claims made in good faith about chain cleaning
were based on the shiny outside of the chain. There seems to be a
tenacious reservoir of hidden filth inside the chain rollers.

Better results could be obtained with hotter liquids, stronger
solvents, longer shaking, and a more powerful ultrasonic cleaner, but
it's likely that any cleaning liquid works only on the thin outer
edges of the pipe-shaped coating of oily grime between the pin and
roller.

Imagine pressing two plates covered with filthy oil together and then
trying to wash between the plates while they're still pressed
together.

The next time that you clean a chain, wipe it dry with a paper towel,
fold it up a few times, spray it liberally with WD40, and wipe it on a
fresh paper towel.

Matthew 23:27 comes to mind.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Dear Carl -

I use the on-the-bike cleaning method with Prolink. Liberally soak the
chain while spinning the crank backwards (a thick and wide blanket of
newspaper or neighbor's lawn is necessary due to spatter) and allow to
penetrate. Repeat until the Prolink runs clean from the chain.

Every 500 or so miles I use the bottle/orange cleaner/hot water/shaking
method. Takes 2-3 repetitions but I believe that the chain is clean,
even between the plates and in the rollers.

If I have the time in the near future, I will take an old chain I have
that has been subjected to the above cleaning schedule and clean it
with my on the bike method (with Prolink). Then, I will crack a few
links and take some pics for you. I will also do the bottle method and
crack a few more links.

It is interesting to note the earlier postings about an evaluation of
chain wear versus cleaning rigor. The upshot of those was that a dirty
chain doesn't wear itself out faster but rather wears out the
chainrings. Which suggests that even if the interior of the chain
retains some grit, it doesn't matter, but removal of exterior caked on
crud is valuable.

Too much time on your hands :-)

"zen cycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

yeah, what he said.......

Tosspot said:

Why not buy a new chain?

Mainly because there's nothing wrong with the old one other than it's a
little dirty. When I have things that are dirty, such as clothes, carpet,
dishes, or bicycle chains, I tend to clean them rather than throw them
out and get new ones. It tends to provide me with more spending money so
I can get other stuff.

Now what Carl is discovering is that it's not easy (perhaps impossible)
to clean a chain thoroughly. This makes me want to discover better ways
of cleaning rather than immediately giving up.

Cheers,
David

I use mineral spirits (AKA paint thinner) and an Axiom chain cleaner gizmo.
The second change of mineral spirits hardly shows any dirt and the towl wipes clean. Just use as directed , twice. The on-the-bike cleaner has the advantage of flexing the links as they go through the solvent.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it! (the story, not the chain.)

Quoted message said:

After cleaning my chain extensively

Dear Carl

I suggest you put the chain in a washing machine with some Tide to see
if it'll finally come clean.

I'm betting the Tide and a washing machine will yield a clean paper towel.

-paul

Dear Carl, which brand of paper towels do you usually use for tests
like this? :-)

Kind regards.

Lewis.

*****

Quoted message said:

After cleaning my chain extensively with a recently acquired
ultrasonic cleaner, I sprayed it with WD40, noted that it left black
smears on a paper towel, put it back on my bike, oiled it, and rode 90
miles on pavement.

Tonight, I wiped the chain off, put it in a plastic jug, poured in
some Simple Green, and shook it for 8 minutes.

I washed the chain off in hot water, put it in the ultrasonic cleaner,
added hot water, and set the cleaner running for 8 minutes.

Meanwhile, I found a new use for the filter and paper that my
coffee-loving sister uses when she visits . . .

I poured the dirty water out of the ultrasonic cleaner, cleaned the
tray out, washed the chain off with hot water, and put the chain back
into the ultrasonic cleaner for another 8 minutes with fresh Simple
Green instead of water.

(I didn't re-use the filtered Simple Green, lest it contain sludge.
Come Christmas Day, I must remember to ask my sister how effective she
thinks her coffee filter paper is.)

I washed the chain off in hot water again, wiped it dry with paper
towels, and sprayed some WD40 solvent on the chain that had been
cleaned for 8 minutes by shaking in a plastic jug of Simple Green, 8
more minutes in hot water in an ultrasonic cleaner, and 8 more minutes
in the ultrasonic cleaner with fresh Simple Green.

Here's what two paper towels looked like after all that cleaning:

http://i17.tinypic.com/4bgc4z9.jpg

I suspect that many claims made in good faith about chain cleaning
were based on the shiny outside of the chain. There seems to be a
tenacious reservoir of hidden filth inside the chain rollers.

Better results could be obtained with hotter liquids, stronger
solvents, longer shaking, and a more powerful ultrasonic cleaner, but
it's likely that any cleaning liquid works only on the thin outer
edges of the pipe-shaped coating of oily grime between the pin and
roller.

Imagine pressing two plates covered with filthy oil together and then
trying to wash between the plates while they're still pressed
together.

The next time that you clean a chain, wipe it dry with a paper towel,
fold it up a few times, spray it liberally with WD40, and wipe it on a
fresh paper towel.

Matthew 23:27 comes to mind.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

"bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

D'ohBoy said:

Quoted message said:

After cleaning my chain extensively with a recently acquired
ultrasonic cleaner, I sprayed it with WD40, noted that it left black
smears on a paper towel, put it back on my bike, oiled it, and rode

90

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

miles on pavement.

Tonight, I wiped the chain off, put it in a plastic jug, poured in
some Simple Green, and shook it for 8 minutes.

I washed the chain off in hot water, put it in the ultrasonic

cleaner,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

added hot water, and set the cleaner running for 8 minutes.

Meanwhile, I found a new use for the filter and paper that my
coffee-loving sister uses when she visits . . .

I poured the dirty water out of the ultrasonic cleaner, cleaned the
tray out, washed the chain off with hot water, and put the chain

back

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

into the ultrasonic cleaner for another 8 minutes with fresh Simple
Green instead of water.

(I didn't re-use the filtered Simple Green, lest it contain sludge.
Come Christmas Day, I must remember to ask my sister how effective

she

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thinks her coffee filter paper is.)

I washed the chain off in hot water again, wiped it dry with paper
towels, and sprayed some WD40 solvent on the chain that had been
cleaned for 8 minutes by shaking in a plastic jug of Simple Green, 8
more minutes in hot water in an ultrasonic cleaner, and 8 more

minutes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in the ultrasonic cleaner with fresh Simple Green.

Here's what two paper towels looked like after all that cleaning:

http://i17.tinypic.com/4bgc4z9.jpg

I suspect that many claims made in good faith about chain cleaning
were based on the shiny outside of the chain. There seems to be a
tenacious reservoir of hidden filth inside the chain rollers.

Better results could be obtained with hotter liquids, stronger
solvents, longer shaking, and a more powerful ultrasonic cleaner,

but

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it's likely that any cleaning liquid works only on the thin outer
edges of the pipe-shaped coating of oily grime between the pin and
roller.

Imagine pressing two plates covered with filthy oil together and

then

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

trying to wash between the plates while they're still pressed
together.

The next time that you clean a chain, wipe it dry with a paper

towel,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fold it up a few times, spray it liberally with WD40, and wipe it on

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fresh paper towel.

Matthew 23:27 comes to mind.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Dear Carl -

I use the on-the-bike cleaning method with Prolink. Liberally soak

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

chain while spinning the crank backwards (a thick and wide blanket of
newspaper or neighbor's lawn is necessary due to spatter) and allow to
penetrate. Repeat until the Prolink runs clean from the chain.

Every 500 or so miles I use the bottle/orange cleaner/hot

water/shaking

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

method. Takes 2-3 repetitions but I believe that the chain is clean,
even between the plates and in the rollers.

If I have the time in the near future, I will take an old chain I have
that has been subjected to the above cleaning schedule and clean it
with my on the bike method (with Prolink). Then, I will crack a few
links and take some pics for you. I will also do the bottle method

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

crack a few more links.

It is interesting to note the earlier postings about an evaluation of
chain wear versus cleaning rigor. The upshot of those was that a

dirty

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

chain doesn't wear itself out faster but rather wears out the
chainrings. Which suggests that even if the interior of the chain
retains some grit, it doesn't matter, but removal of exterior caked on
crud is valuable.

Too much time on your hands :-)

Excuse me while I re-arrange my sock drawer.... ;-)

The comes a point of declining returns.

I used to soak my chains in a Safety-Kleen parts washer for a day or two.
I used Sedis chains which at the time cost under $7 and changed them at
about 3000 miles. I never saw much difference between Sedis and the
Italian Regina and Everest chains except the later cost more money.

I switched to Shimano Uni-Glide chains in the late 70s because they
shifted much better than anything else on the market at the time. The
Shimano chains cost more and didn't last as long as the European brands.
I'm using SRAM chains now.

WD-40 is not a very good lubricant. It's mostly solvent. It was designed
to displace water (Water Displacing compound #40) and provide light duty
corrosion prevention. It penetrates well because of it's low viscosity
(lots of solvent). I used WD-40 for a long time but later experimented
with other products.

LPS-2 provides much better lubrication than WD-40. It has much less
solvent and leaves a light layer of oil that soaks into moving parts. More
oil on the surface picks up more dirt. There are probably a lot better
products on the market that are designed for different kind of riding.

For the past 15 years I've been using mostly dry types of chain lubes. I
don't need water protection so they don't pick up a lot of grit and crud.
People who ride a lot in wet climates probably need much more oily
lubricants that need to be cleaned more often.

http://www.safety-kleen.com

http://www.lpslabs.com/products/Lubricants/Lps2.asp

http://www.wd40.com/Brands/wd40_product_info.html

Chas.

"* * Chas" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:QP-
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Too much time on your hands :-)

Excuse me while I re-arrange my sock drawer.... ;-)

The comes a point of declining returns.

I think the point of Carl's exercise to exorcise the dirt in his chain
was scientific. I don't think he was describing a normal cleaning ritual.

It takes time to compare various cleaning methods, but hopefully the end
result will be a simple method - or the discovery that nothing actually
works so you might as well just spray on more lube and wipe off the
outside once in a while.

For $7 chains, it's probably not worth bothering with anything. Just
replace them each season. But with narrow 10-speed chains the initial
cost is more, so it might pay off to find the most reasonable cleaning
method for them.

Cheers,
David

Solvang Cyclist said:

"* * Chas" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:QP-
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Too much time on your hands :-)

Excuse me while I re-arrange my sock drawer.... ;-)

The comes a point of declining returns.

I think the point of Carl's exercise to exorcise the dirt in his chain
was scientific. I don't think he was describing a normal cleaning ritual.

It takes time to compare various cleaning methods, but hopefully the end
result will be a simple method - or the discovery that nothing actually
works so you might as well just spray on more lube and wipe off the
outside once in a while.

For $7 chains, it's probably not worth bothering with anything. Just
replace them each season. But with narrow 10-speed chains the initial
cost is more, so it might pay off to find the most reasonable cleaning
method for them.

Chains used to cost $7 and the cogset $25 and so after 3,000 miles
you'd simply replace them, which is a cost per mile of just over a
penny a mile. Having broken chains a number of times during my penny
pinching youthful years, I learned the hard way to buy new chains more
frequently!

For the 10 speed stuff the chain is $45, the cogs $120 and Campagnolo
warns riders over 180 lbs to check for cracks, and so you are lucky to
get 3,000 miles out of it anyway. Unit cost: over 5 cents per mile!

As much as I love racing bikes, I think they are stupid transportation
(and I cannot bring myself to ride anything else. It's my one vice🙂.
It costs as much or more per mile to run a bike as it does to amortize
a new Toyota Corolla (not inlcuding the gas).

Solvang Cyclist said:

"zen cycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

yeah, what he said.......

Tosspot said:

Why not buy a new chain?

Mainly because there's nothing wrong with the old one other than it's a
little dirty. When I have things that are dirty, such as clothes, carpet,
dishes, or bicycle chains, I tend to clean them rather than throw them
out and get new ones. It tends to provide me with more spending money so
I can get other stuff.

Now what Carl is discovering is that it's not easy (perhaps impossible)
to clean a chain thoroughly. This makes me want to discover better ways
of cleaning rather than immediately giving up.

<shrug> I admire your persistence. Should you discover a way drop me a
line and I'll evaluate it for possible patent applications. After a
suitable amount of time I'll give it back >🙂

You do have a point though, it is a disposable world and I'm >that<
close to not bothering cleaning chains. A couple of friends just
replace them. But all that metal, it seems a waste...

Tosspot said:

You do have a point though, it is a disposable world and I'm >that<
close to not bothering cleaning chains. A couple of friends just
replace them. But all that metal, it seems a waste...

As I noted above, the cleaning of chains, at least according to one
earlier thread (which I can't find but was relatively recent), is
valuable in that it preserves the chainrings. Ever try to purchase a
good set of chainrings (Campy or Shimano)? Pricey!!!

D'ohBoy

"Solvang Cyclist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"* * Chas" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:QP-
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Too much time on your hands :-)

Excuse me while I re-arrange my sock drawer.... ;-)

The comes a point of declining returns.

I think the point of Carl's exercise to exorcise the dirt in his chain
was scientific. I don't think he was describing a normal cleaning

ritual.

Quoted message said:

It takes time to compare various cleaning methods, but hopefully the end
result will be a simple method - or the discovery that nothing actually
works so you might as well just spray on more lube and wipe off the
outside once in a while.

For $7 chains, it's probably not worth bothering with anything. Just
replace them each season. But with narrow 10-speed chains the initial
cost is more, so it might pay off to find the most reasonable cleaning
method for them.

Cheers,
David

Carl does present a lot of "what if" ideas which is refreshing (if not
compulsive).

I've been to several training seminars on light lubricants and
preservatives. I used to be a strong believer in WD-40 until I found out
more about it and similar products. I switched to LPS (LPS-2) products for
a while. I've been using dry type lubricants on my chains for the past 15
years and have been happy with them.

I'm currently trying Boshield T-9 but I'm not sold on it. I don't ride in
the wet very often so my needs are different than for many other folks. I
clean the excess guk off of the outside and between the links and hope for
the best.

The point that I was making in a previous message is that 1.) excessively
cleaning a chain washes the lubricant out of the bushings or whatever the
pins are riding in. This increases the size of the clearance around the
pin and can allow more grit to get in. 2.) WD-40 is not an adequate
lubricant for a chain. It's a medium for an abrasive slurry though.

As a chain wears the microscopic steel particles mix with the lubricant
and occupy the clearance space around the pins. The particles provide
support and add to the lubricant boundary layer. They also continue to
cause abrasive breakdown of the chain but the wear caused by these
particles is probably a lot less than that caused by abrasive grit that
can get into the links when all of the heavy lube is continually washed
out.

Chas.

"* * Chas" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:d9-
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

WD-40 is not an adequate
lubricant for a chain. It's a medium for an abrasive slurry though.

I agree with this one. I also stopped using WD-40 some time ago. The lub of
choice for me is Tri-Flow. I generally use the liquid but I've also used
the spray when doing a "quick clean and lub."

At a recent bike event I was given a bottle of Finish Line "DRY Teflon
Lube" by the Finish Line rep. to try. He said it's a bit thicker than Tri-
Flow and thought I would like it better. I haven't given it a try yet, but
I plan to for the current chain cleaning on my old bike.

Cheers,
David

"Solvang Cyclist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"* * Chas" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:d9-
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

WD-40 is not an adequate
lubricant for a chain. It's a medium for an abrasive slurry though.

I agree with this one. I also stopped using WD-40 some time ago. The lub

of

Quoted message said:

choice for me is Tri-Flow. I generally use the liquid but I've also used
the spray when doing a "quick clean and lub."

At a recent bike event I was given a bottle of Finish Line "DRY Teflon
Lube" by the Finish Line rep. to try. He said it's a bit thicker than

Tri-

Quoted message said:

Flow and thought I would like it better. I haven't given it a try yet,

but

Quoted message said:

I plan to for the current chain cleaning on my old bike.

Cheers,
David

I used Tri-Flow a long time ago and it worked well - but expensive.
Someone in the group or somewhere else suggest a better source for the
same product in larger containers for a lot less money.

As I mentioned, I'm trying Boshield T-9. So far it seems to work ok but a
little messy to apply plus it takes 6 hours to dry.

Chas.

"bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Solvang Cyclist said:

"* * Chas" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:QP-
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

> Too much time on your hands :-)
>

Excuse me while I re-arrange my sock drawer.... ;-)

The comes a point of declining returns.

I think the point of Carl's exercise to exorcise the dirt in his chain
was scientific. I don't think he was describing a normal cleaning

ritual.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It takes time to compare various cleaning methods, but hopefully the

end

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

result will be a simple method - or the discovery that nothing

actually

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

works so you might as well just spray on more lube and wipe off the
outside once in a while.

For $7 chains, it's probably not worth bothering with anything. Just
replace them each season. But with narrow 10-speed chains the initial
cost is more, so it might pay off to find the most reasonable cleaning
method for them.

Chains used to cost $7 and the cogset $25 and so after 3,000 miles
you'd simply replace them, which is a cost per mile of just over a
penny a mile. Having broken chains a number of times during my penny
pinching youthful years, I learned the hard way to buy new chains more
frequently!

For the 10 speed stuff the chain is $45, the cogs $120 and Campagnolo
warns riders over 180 lbs to check for cracks, and so you are lucky to
get 3,000 miles out of it anyway. Unit cost: over 5 cents per mile!

As much as I love racing bikes, I think they are stupid transportation
(and I cannot bring myself to ride anything else. It's my one vice🙂.
It costs as much or more per mile to run a bike as it does to amortize
a new Toyota Corolla (not inlcuding the gas).

The last 3 chains I've installed are SRAM for $17-$22 each. The biggest
concern for me is wearing out chainrings and rear sprockets. I wipe down
my chainrings every time I lube my chain. With the dry lubes I've been
using my chainrings don't pick up as much grit as with a sticky oil.\

Now tires, that's a different issue. New tires on 4 bikes has set me back
more than Michelins all around on 2 cars!

Chas.