Why I like George....

(concatenated your two messages)

Quoted message said:

Actually that's even worse. Sonarrat hasn't been a troll
that I've noticed and usually had something to say that
you would want to read. Pot shots at Lance are a bit
"in" aren't they? I'm actually not a great Lance fan
because he's too mechanical for my tastes. But a winner
is a winner and someone telling us that he'd rather a
bunch of also-rans won is pretty unreal. Let's face it,
there were plenty of the "Anyone but Merckx" crowd
during Eddy's day.

I'm not trolling, because I believe what I say; I don't
think "a winner is a winner," no matter how you look at it.
In particular, from the spectator's point of view, we're
just in it for the entertainment and catharsis. That's what
spectator sports are about. If you're in it to be an
analyst, well, you ought to be making money off of it.

Catharsis comes from uncertainty, revelation... now the '03
Vuelta was incredibly exciting, because on the one hand, you
had Isidro Nozal putting a minute and a half into David
Millar, and on the other, you had Alejandro Valverde scaring
the living hell out of everyone. Then finally, Roberto Heras
turned the race sideways and though it was anticlimactic
because the underdog didn't win, it was incredible to watch
Heras flying up that mountain.

There was plenty of catharsis in the '03 Tour, too, but
Lance only contributed to it himself in terms of almost
losing. (This was true whether you are a fan of his or not,
by the way.)

Quoted message said:

My appologies to Sonarrat if I misunderstood his postings.
But the anti-Lance talk does get as boring as Brian
Lafferty's "Every pro is a doper".

That's my point!!!!! Once his career ends, hopefully, the
Lance talk will, too! And hopefully nobody else will win it
5 times for a long while to come, because variety keeps the
sport interesting.

-Sonarrat.

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Other Jeff Jones) said:

Here are some examples of ideal situations:

Joseba Beloki DNS, Sylvain Chavanel takes up the mantle
and wins.

Maybe in a couple-three years for Chavanel.

Quoted message said:

Iban Mayo and Haimar Zubeldia 1-2 in Paris, or vice versa.

The first choice would be fine with me.

Quoted message said:

Christophe Moreau finally comes out of his shell.

And...?

Quoted message said:

Bobby Julich finally lives up to his potential.

He may have already done that in '98 (though he is riding
pretty well this year).

Quoted message said:

Levi Leipheimer redeems.

S&H Green Stamps.

Quoted message said:

Tyler Hamilton puts in a thrilling solo attack into Paris
and beats Ullrich on the last day.

And the whole peloton beats him to a pulp for attacking
on the last day.

Quoted message said:

Roberto Heras beats his former team leader into the
ground, with the help of Christian Vandevelde and
Isidro Nozal.

You are talking about the Tour, right? (Though I'd be
thrilled to see Heras do really well at the Tour...)

How about adding Basso in this somewhere?

Quoted message said:

Here are some examples of bad outcomes:

Lance Armstrong breaks the record and we all suffer
through one more year of Krispy Kreme trolls on
rec.bicycles.racing. Jan Ullrich comes back from crashing
his drunk ass into a bike rack and repeats his 1997
victory, having won nothing else the entire season.

--
tanx, Howard

Q: Can we call it a quagmire yet?

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Other Jeff Jones said:

Jeff Jones wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm sure we can come up with some better demarcation
than this though. I had no problem with Sonarrat.

cheers, Jeff (the other other Jeff Jones)

I'm sure that we can come to some kind of an agreement.
Perhaps I can switch back to Sonarrat, and you can see if
you can get me an internship over the summer. I don't eat
much. (Only half joking.)

Nah, I just thought it would be funny to do this. Since
you don't agree, I'll change back after sending this
message.

Well, you could by "OJJ", but then I'd eventually ask you
how the search for the real killers is going.

--
tanx, Howard

Q: Can we call it a quagmire yet?

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

John Everett <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Well of course! Great champions are not defined by their
race results, like winning five TdFs in a row. It's their
interview technique that truly defines them.

Dude, there is a difference between winning a whole lot and
being a great champion. It's a subjective thing, to be sure,
and I believe an athlete's character is part of the
equation. By your way of thinking Mike Tyson is in

In article <[email hidden]>,

Howard Kveck said:

Quoted message said:

Here are some examples of ideal situations:

Joseba Beloki DNS, Sylvain Chavanel takes up the mantle
and wins.

Maybe in a couple-three years for Chavanel.

Sure. It would be a nice surprise, though, and the French
would be thrilled. So would I.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Iban Mayo and Haimar Zubeldia 1-2 in Paris, or vice
versa.

The first choice would be fine with me.

Zubeldia has been alarmingly off form so far this season,
though, so Mayo may be a more realistic pick.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Christophe Moreau finally comes out of his shell.

And...?

And Lance punctures on the shell. 😉

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bobby Julich finally lives up to his potential.

He may have already done that in '98 (though he is riding
pretty well this year).

Could be.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Tyler Hamilton puts in a thrilling solo attack into
Paris and beats Ullrich on the last day.

And the whole peloton beats him to a pulp for attacking on
the last day.

And that's not exciting? 😉

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Roberto Heras beats his former team leader into the
ground, with the help of Christian Vandevelde and Isidro
Nozal.

You are talking about the Tour, right? (Though I'd be
thrilled to see Heras do really well at the Tour...)

Yes. How often have you seen Heras pacing Armstrong, and he
has to go up to Heras and tell him to slow down?

Quoted message said:

How about adding Basso in this somewhere?

Why not? He's good enough. Or how about Vinokourov vs.
Ullrich - one of them says the wrong thing and they get
turned against each other? Or maybe Dario Frigo will make
something happen? Or maybe Gilberto Simoni manages to do
the double?

My point is, there are a lot of better things that could
happen than Armstrong's 6th.

-Sonarrat.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Howard Kveck said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Other

Jeff Jones said:

Jeff Jones wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm sure we can come up with some better demarcation
than this though. I had no problem with Sonarrat.

cheers, Jeff (the other other Jeff Jones)

I'm sure that we can come to some kind of an agreement.
Perhaps I can switch back to Sonarrat, and you can see
if you can get me an internship over the summer. I don't
eat much. (Only half joking.)

Nah, I just thought it would be funny to do this. Since
you don't agree, I'll change back after sending this
message.

Well, you could by "OJJ", but then I'd eventually ask
you how the search for the real killers is going.

We could both use our middle initials...

He could put Ph.D. after his name, and I could put Mus.D...
(but that's still 10 years off.)

Or he could adopt me, and then I'd be Jeff Jones, Jr...

Or I could just post as Jeff Jones and let the poor newbies
figure out who is who the hard way.

(;

-Sonarrat.

peterwright <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

A winner never admits they were beaten by a better man -
that would be facing the fact that someone out there is
better than you. A winner who loses just got unlucky on
the day...there is no one better.

You have got to stop reading those Tony Robbins books.

Tim Mullin said:

....better than Lance.

After today's PR, Hincape admits he just didn't have the
legs after making the break with Museeuw. No [censored]
excuses, just an honest admission of what every cyclist
knows--some days the other guy is just faster than you.

Lance, on the other hand, always seems to have an excuse.
A hunger knock. The other guy warmed up in air
conditioning. Everything, it seems, this side of the Vast
Right Wing Conspiracy. Why can't he admit that--plain and
simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race? Not
the hallmark of a great champion in my book.

Yeah, the other George is showing how to give full props to
your opponent. The other George made no mistakes, he did
everything anyone could possibly
do. Not only does he himself refuse to examine whether any
mistakes were made, he doesn't want anyone else to
examine it either.

QUESTION: You've looked back before 9-11 for what mistakes
might have been made. After 9-11, what would your biggest
mistake be, would you say, and what lessons have learned
from it? BUSH: I wish you'd have given me this written
question ahead of time so I could plan for it.

John, I'm sure historians will look back and say, gosh, he
could've done it better this way or that way. You know, I
just -- I'm sure something will pop into my head here in the
midst of this press conference, with all the pressure of
trying to come up with answer, but it hadn't yet.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Robert Chung said:

Tim Mullin said:

....better than Lance.

After today's PR, Hincape admits he just didn't have the
legs after making the break with Museeuw. No [censored]
excuses, just an honest admission of what every cyclist
knows--some days the other guy is just faster than you.

Lance, on the other hand, always seems to have an
excuse. A hunger knock. The other guy warmed up in air
conditioning. Everything, it seems, this side of the
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Why can't he admit that--
plain and simple--on that day the other guy rode a
better race? Not the hallmark of a great champion in
my book.

Yeah, the other George is showing how to give full props
to your opponent. The other George made no mistakes, he
did everything anyone could possibly
do. Not only does he himself refuse to examine whether any
mistakes were made, he doesn't want anyone else to
examine it either.

QUESTION: You've looked back before 9-11 for what mistakes
might have been made. After 9-11, what would your biggest
mistake be, would you say, and what lessons have learned
from it? BUSH: I wish you'd have given me this written
question ahead of time so I could plan for it.

John, I'm sure historians will look back and say, gosh, he
could've done it better this way or that way. You know, I
just -- I'm sure something will pop into my head here in
the midst of this press conference, with all the pressure
of trying to come up with answer, but it hadn't yet.

The other Condi doesn't have that problem: threetwoone.orgriceOpen ↗
babble.gif

--
tanx, Howard

Q: Can we call it a quagmire yet?

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Jeff Jones said:

"h squared" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

what is jeff a doctor of?

chem (please, spare the jokes). It was actually a combined
theoretical/physical degree on modelling coal combustion.
Brown coal looks great in a miniskirt. I spent a lot of
time reading Cyclingnews instead of doing experiments. I
had no idea it how it would influence my career :-)

yay for boring experiments! just being silly, but i hope you
know what i mean.

i remember when i was at school, i realized i would never
make it past the undergraduate level when i was reading
about some smartie and it said something like "along with
pursuing a doctorate in theoretical and physical chemistry,
jeff also is a competitive amateur cyclist, enjoys
photography, and has recently written a detailed history of
the cobbled climbs in belgium in his spare time..." (ok, i
so made stuff up, but i'm sure it would have read something
like that 🙂

heather

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:13:25 GMT, Tim Mullin <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

John Everett <[email hidden]>
wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Well of course! Great champions are not defined by their
race results, like winning five TdFs in a row. It's their
interview technique that truly defines them.

Dude, there is a difference between winning a whole lot and
being a great champion. It's a subjective thing, to be
sure, and I believe an athlete's character is part of the
equation. By your way of thinking Mike Tyson is in

Comparing their respective records, personalities aside,
it's clear Ali was a greater champion than Tyson. That's my
way of thinking.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net
home.earthlink.net~jeverett3Open ↗

John Everett <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Comparing their respective records, personalities aside,
it's clear Ali was a greater champion than Tyson. That's
my way of thinking.

Huh? Ali went 56-5, winning 91% of this fights. Tyson's
record stands at 50-4, which is--if I figured this right--
92%. That not very clear thinking at all. Hell, by your
reasoning, Wladimir Klitschko, who has never a champion
as a pro, but with a 42-3 record is better than both of
them. WTF?

Ewoud Dronkert said:

He really is called Jeff Jones (aka Sonarrat). Maybe the
original JJ should finally start calling himself Dr.
Jones..?

Nullarbor Jones and the Road to Hell?

"Other Jeff Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nah, I just thought it would be funny to do this. Since
you don't agree, I'll change back after sending this
message.

I don't really mind - it's your name too after all! It'll
create endless confusion in this newsgroup, if that's at all
possible :-)

As for work, I could certainly use another one of me around
here sometimes so I can slope off down to the pub.

Jeff
p.s. in no way associated with the actor
p.p.s. I could put "failed A. Mus." after my name

Stewart Fleming said:

Quoted message said:

He really is called Jeff Jones (aka Sonarrat). Maybe the
original JJ should finally start calling himself Dr.
Jones..?

Nullarbor Jones and the Road to Hell?

Flandria Jones and the Riders of the Lard [censored]?

"Ewoud Dronkert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Stewart Fleming said:

Quoted message said:

He really is called Jeff Jones (aka Sonarrat). Maybe
the original JJ should finally start calling himself
Dr. Jones..?

Nullarbor Jones and the Road to Hell?

Flandria Jones and the Riders of the Lard [censored]?

Hehe. Friends used to quote Dr. Belloq at me during races.

"Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Other Jeff Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Nah, I just thought it would be funny to do this. Since
you don't agree, I'll change back after sending this
message.

Quoted message said:

I don't really mind - it's your name too after all! It'll
create endless confusion in this newsgroup, if that's at
all possible :-)

Sonarrat is fine, even if it is a name from my fantasy life
rather than from my human existence. (Benjo should know what
I'm talking about.)

Quoted message said:

As for work, I could certainly use another one of me
around here sometimes so I can slope off down to the pub.

I have no problem with that. BTW, I also took four years of
French and I still speak it fairly easily, though my
vocabulary needs work.

Quoted message said:

Jeff
p.s. in no way associated with the actor

Studied acting in London, played King Leopold II in
Amadeus, played Principal Rooney in Ferris, then was
charged as a child molester tied to Paul Reubens. What a
waste. There was also a rather obscure electronic composer
with the same name...

Quoted message said:

p.p.s. I could put "failed A. Mus." after my name

A. Mus? You mean community college?

-Sonarrat.,

"Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Ewoud Dronkert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:37:42 +1200, Stewart Fleming
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> He really is called Jeff Jones (aka Sonarrat). Maybe
> the original JJ should finally start calling himself
> Dr. Jones..?
Nullarbor Jones and the Road to Hell?

Flandria Jones and the Riders of the Lard [censored]?

Hehe. Friends used to quote Dr. Belloq at me during races.

Better than quoting Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

-Sonarrat.