Why not just rest on easy days?

[zaskar]

I'm finding with my power meter, if i take more then 1 day off my power output goes down for several days. well at least i can't maintain it, L 4 or longer periods of L 3 as i do usually. last week i rode 5 days. went hard fri, Sat, Sun,. Sunday i did a break on a big group ride of about 70 riders. i was never able to stay away always got caught but this one stuck big time.. this was the first big group ride since i been training with power. any way since that ride was hard 239 watt avg NP265 (3 hours 10 min, my PB for that length of time) i decided to take 3 days off. Thursday i rode endurance for 1:30 min. wow slightly sore legs after that easy ride, more so then last Sunday. today Friday, i was gonna ride 1 hour L3 with some 450 watt sprints every 3 min for 10 sec, only could do 30 minutes. i have always been able to complete that work out. i blame it on to many days off. my data shows it every time. i really ride best if i ride easy rather then take a day off. just my experience with more then a day off.

 

[jeff828]

It's not his way of thinking, it's the lack of specifics that make the discussion hard to conclude. I mean, after a really hard ride it probably would be a good idea to take a day off, but after a moderate ride it's not necessary unless the ride is really long. What's to debate?




I was pointing out the difference between the question being asked and a "no rest" scenario. The OP presumes that some rest is needed.

Hey french, hope i didnt come across argumentative or step on your toes, I didnt mean to if it sounded like that.

 

[jeff828]

Does anyone remember when checking your resting heart rate in the morning was an indicator of whether you are recovered or not? They said when it was 10bpm higher or lower than what you normally were that you are not recovered. Does this still apply?

Most people training with a power tap these days say they dont use a HR monitor, its not as good of a tool anymore.

 

[frenchyge]

Hey french, hope i didnt come across argumentative or step on your toes, I didnt mean to if it sounded like that.

Not at all. Just clarifying my statements that may not have been clear.

 

[Jono L]

I'm with ya on this one. I have discussed this before with some local guys & they think I'm off my rocker, they say its 2 different sports & cycling is a aerobic sport. If you go with a group ride and hammer yourself into the ground for 3-4hrs with your buddies, sprinting for signs, sprinting up hills, going anaerobic or you do L5/6/7 intervals, your muscles need a 24-48hrs to recover fully regardless of what sport broke them down that way. I myself don't find the benefit of going out the next day & riding another 2hrs with the group, you cant be fully recovered. Only reason I can think of is to go out by yourself for an hour and noodle 15-16mph for recovery. A person wouldn't go to the gym on Monday workout hard then go to the gym on Tuesday also and lift again easy, like 50-60% less weight and think your getting a benefit.

You have to plan this all over a longer period. If you wake up on sunday and you're not fully recovered don't worry. After 5-6weeks following this plan, you should wake up on sunday after a 5hr saturday ride and be recovered. Do you think that people in the Tour wake up each morning fully recovered? Certainly not, but by overtraining consistently they gain physical adaptions for life.

Think about your week like one big interval session. In a normal interval session, after one or two intervals, you won't be able to get down to base HR but you'll still do the next rep. Your week should be planned this way. 2-3 hards days in a row trains you to go hard when not fully recovered, trust me, you'll get better. One hard day one easy day is simply maintenance not training.

 

[Doctor Morbius]

If anyone has ever lifted weights, they know a lifter lifts hard one day and rests the next...

I agree with Felt Rider completely on this. Nobody in the strength training field worth their salt trains this way. They periodize.

Only the HIT Jedi train the way you've described. But then I already qualified this by stating "worth their salt".

 

[jeff828]

Do you think that people in the Tour wake up each morning fully recovered? Certainly not, but by overtraining consistently they gain physical adaptions for life.

They dont wake up fully rexovered but their not nearly as taxed, have you watched their telemetary on the net, I have and was amazed, most of the day is spent at 55-75% of max when your in the packs draft. The main times they went over that were:

The guys at the front setting pace or chasing (up to 90%)
When there is an attack
When they are climbing (about 85-90%)
In the final Ks before the sprint(90-95%)


I watched these guys roll at 27-30mph & the guys in the middle of the pack had heart rates between 55-75%, now if we did a ride or race and stayed at 55-75% and only had to go above at certain times, we could ride pretty much every day.


Here are the links
http://www.srmdataserver.de/Telemetry/
http://www.srmdataserver.de/tele/science/telemetry/races.php

 

[tarczan]

"Think about your week like one big interval session. In a normal interval session, after one or two intervals, you won't be able to get down to base HR but you'll still do the next rep. Your week should be planned this way. 2-3 hards days in a row trains you to go hard when not fully recovered, trust me, you'll get better. One hard day one easy day is simply maintenance not training."

Jono I think you are onto something here. If you are really depleted after two or three hard days the recovery is much greater, particularly if you are training for endurance events.

 

[wiredued]

I second that motion and advocate rest on hard days also. Maybe that's why improvment has been slow lately.

I've also been experimenting with resting on my hard days.

 

[Rhubarb]

"Think about your week like one big interval session. In a normal interval session, after one or two intervals, you won't be able to get down to base HR but you'll still do the next rep. Your week should be planned this way. 2-3 hards days in a row trains you to go hard when not fully recovered, trust me, you'll get better. One hard day one easy day is simply maintenance not training."

Jono I think you are onto something here. If you are really depleted after two or three hard days the recovery is much greater, particularly if you are training for endurance events.

I like what Jono L says, not only true, but as ever, very sensible.

The important thing here, that has been somewhat understated, is that easy days / recovering rides; are not about getting fitter but about aiding recovery.

By getting the blood flowing through legs it is aiding the removal of toxins, which in turn aids the recovering of your muscles. It also helps your body condition to riding when it not fully recovered. Not only that but rather than doing nothing, your heart and lungs also get to do something.

I'm not saying that rest days are not important, for most people they are. But if you can do 1 or 2 recovery rides in a week instead of having 3 rest days, I think most people will find that their improvement will accelerate.

 

[hidesertphil]

Different things aid recovery. Like a bath with salts for example. If one were to recommend a bath after a hard ride you might ask why should I? Why a massage, why eat a bunch of carbs? In addition to hastening muscle recovery through circulation, I thought we were told to take the easy day because we want to go too fast all the time. You want days off, why not take a rest day instead of a hard day?

If anyone has ever lifted weights, they know a lifter lifts hard one day and rests the next. Why doesn't this apply to cycling? For someone who just wants to be able to go pretty hard for no more than 2 hours, I don't see why riding on the off days helps. Usually you end up going a little harder and longer than planned, and tire yourself for the upcoming hard effort.

Wouldn't one be better off resting and really being fresh and going hard on the planned hard day? It seems like the off day ride just tires you out a little, with no real contribution to fitness.

 

[mikesbytes]

If anyone has ever lifted weights, they know a lifter lifts hard one day and rests the next. Why doesn't this apply to cycling? For someone who just wants to be able to go pretty hard for no more than 2 hours, I don't see why riding on the off days helps. Usually you end up going a little harder and longer than planned, and tire yourself for the upcoming hard effort.

Wouldn't one be better off resting and really being fresh and going hard on the planned hard day? It seems like the off day ride just tires you out a little, with no real contribution to fitness.

Heavy weight lifting damages the muscles more than an aerobic exercise and body builders, as distinct from competitive lifters want their muscles to grow bigger, so they want the muscles to have as much opportunity to repair bigger than they were before damaging them. Actually bodybuilders (ignoring assisted ones) don't have rest days, they exercise different muscles on different days, for example the may do chest and biceps on Monday, back and triceps on Tuesday, however the triceps had some work during the chest routine and the biceps had some work during the back routine, so the muscles are being worked daily, but have a hard day and an easy day.

In aerobic sports, some atheletes perform an intensive day followed by an easy day, this in effect has some similarities to what the body builders are doing.

It should also be pointed out that diet is a major component in weight lifting disiciplines.