Would this work?

"NY Rides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why isn't there a universal method for representing the terrain and difficulty of bike
paths/routes in the form of a graph like the one below?

____________________etc. _____________/ / ____/
_____/

That way, one could become familiar with the basic configuration of a ride that is comfortable for
him/her and compare it to the visual

representation

Quoted message said:

of another ride.

The depth and duration of climbs can even be represented by crosslines on the graph. Has this
already been done? Am I just naive?

There is an outfit called GeoBike that does just that. The guy's name who does it is Rich Ketcham.
Don't know how widespread they are but I know they always produce topographical maps for RAGBRAI
that shows exactly what you are looking for plus climb gradient, total climb, etc. You can see their
RAGBRAI maps at geobike.comgbmain.shtmlOpen ↗ (just click on < RAGBRAI > on the left
panel to see a sample of their work). If that URL doesn't work you can find a link to them on
www.ragbrai.com . You could contact them and see what's available for your area.

Good luck, Mish

Cool, but I guess what those graphs demonstrated to me was that this format might be deceiving
without a good deal of extra information. For example, a graph of a 50 mile ride might look the same
as a graph of a 5 mile ride. Let's say the graph looked basicaly like / . That kind of climb over 5
miles would be nearly impossible. But over 50 miles...

Users would still have to have an understanding of what different levels of climbs feel like over
various distances. Hmmmm. I guess it's not so simple.

Michelin maps have a convention where they overprint cheverons that look like > or >> or >>> or even

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> to show the direction and steepness of the climb. Much rougher indication than you propose, but

better than nothing.

NY Rides said:

Why isn't there a universal method for representing the terrain and difficulty of bike
paths/routes in the form of a graph like the one below?

____________________etc. _____________/ / ____/
_____/

That way, one could become familiar with the basic configuration of a ride that is comfortable for
him/her and compare it to the visual representation of another ride.

The depth and duration of climbs can even be represented by crosslines on the graph. Has this
already been done? Am I just naive?

"NY Rides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cool, but I guess what those graphs demonstrated to me was that this

format

Quoted message said:

might be deceiving without a good deal of extra information. For example,

a

Quoted message said:

graph of a 50 mile ride might look the same as a graph of a 5 mile ride. Let's say the graph
looked basicaly like / . That kind of climb over 5 miles would be nearly impossible. But over 50
miles...

Users would still have to have an understanding of what different levels

of

Quoted message said:

climbs feel like over various distances. Hmmmm. I guess it's not so simple.

As you suggest, it's all Rise over Run - just as with any line graph. GeoBike charts show the
elevations on the vertical axis and the distance on the horizontal axis. Similar scales of elevation
and distance will yield comparable data lines.

By riding with the GeoBike charts for a few days it all makes sense. When I use GeoBike on a
multi-day ride it's very easy to predict one upcoming day's topography and predicted effort levels
to previous days efforts by just comparing the charts of the different days.

My thing is that I have a website that many people depend on to find easy "family-type" rides. I try
to provide an idea of how hilly or flat a ride may be, but, at best, it's just my personal opinion.
And as a pretty good rider and climber myself, what may seem fairly flat to me might send someone
else to the emergency room.

My goal is find or develop a universal system for describing the difficulty or ease of a ride.

--
Low-Impact Rides In The LI/NY Area www.geocities.com/NYRides "Gary Mishler"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tghVa.1627$o%2.1532@sccrnsc02...

Quoted message said:

"NY Rides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cool, but I guess what those graphs demonstrated to me was that this

format

Quoted message said:

might be deceiving without a good deal of extra information. For

example,

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

graph of a 50 mile ride might look the same as a graph of a 5 mile ride. Let's say the graph
looked basicaly like / . That kind of climb over 5 miles would be nearly impossible. But over 50
miles...

Users would still have to have an understanding of what different levels

of

Quoted message said:

climbs feel like over various distances. Hmmmm. I guess it's not so simple.

As you suggest, it's all Rise over Run - just as with any line graph. GeoBike charts show the
elevations on the vertical axis and the distance

on

Quoted message said:

the horizontal axis. Similar scales of elevation and distance will yield comparable data lines.

By riding with the GeoBike charts for a few days it all makes sense. When

I

Quoted message said:

use GeoBike on a multi-day ride it's very easy to predict one upcoming

day's

Quoted message said:

topography and predicted effort levels to previous days efforts by just comparing the charts of
the different days.

NY Rides said:

My goal is find or develop a universal system for describing the difficulty or ease of a ride.

Here's a system that our bike club uses:

westernwheelers.orgride info.htmOpen ↗
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA terrymorse.combikeOpen ↗

NY Rides said:

Why isn't there a universal method for representing the terrain and difficulty of bike
paths/routes in the form of a graph like the one below?

____________________etc. _____________/ / ____/
_____/

You mean like this?

(from Peter's response in Re: Grades and GPS.) home.comcast.netimage002.jpgOpen ↗

or:

("NCAR climb" - Table Mesa in Boulder) tablemesa.infoNCARtracklog.phpOpen ↗

--
*****************************
Chuck Anderson • Boulder, CO cycletourist.comcycletourist.comOpen ↗ Integrity is obvious. The lack of it
is common.
*****************************

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You mean like this?<<<<

YES! But now that I see it, I think it can make a ride look a lot more intimidating.

--
Low-Impact Rides In The LI/NY Area www.geocities.com/NYRides "Chuck Anderson" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

NY Rides said:

Why isn't there a universal method for representing the terrain and difficulty of bike
paths/routes in the form of a graph like the one

below?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

____________________etc. _____________/ / ____/
_____/

You mean like this?

(from Peter's response in Re: Grades and GPS.) home.comcast.netimage002.jpgOpen ↗

or:

("NCAR climb" - Table Mesa in Boulder) tablemesa.infoNCARtracklog.phpOpen ↗

--
*****************************
Chuck Anderson . Boulder, CO cycletourist.comcycletourist.comOpen ↗ Integrity is obvious. The lack of it is
common.
*****************************

[inverted to eliminate top-posting]

"NY Rides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

NY Rides said:

Why isn't there a universal method for representing the terrain and difficulty of bike
paths/routes in the form of a graph like the one

below?

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You mean like this?

home.comcast.netimage002.jpgOpen ↗

or:

("NCAR climb" - Table Mesa in Boulder) tablemesa.infoNCARtracklog.phpOpen ↗

YES! But now that I see it, I think it can make a ride look a lot more intimidating.

Or, if you've completed the ride, more of a brag point. How steep those peaks and valleys are, is
just a choice of the scale you decide to use.

Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky ([email hidden]) Home of the meditative cyclist:
home.earthlink.netWelcome.htmOpen ↗ Singing with you at: tiferet.nettiferet.netOpen ↗ Books
just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at: bookcrossing.comCpeterskyOpen ↗

If you want to plot your own rides as I do you can buy this software
delorme.comdefault.aspOpen ↗ (I bought mine on ebay) It builds those graphs you see at
RAGBRAI for any route you want. It also allows you to see the maps in 3d. You can see the total
climbing verses descending . It will show you percent of grade and everything. It will even work
with gps units in both directions . If you have a gps that you can upload a route to , this software
will do it. If you want to see where your local trail runs and plot maps of them you can download
trails from the gps to the software. Its pretty cool Ray

NY Rides said:

Why isn't there a universal method for representing the terrain and difficulty of bike
paths/routes in the form of a graph like the one below?

____________________etc. _____________/ / ____/
_____/

That way, one could become familiar with the basic configuration of a ride that is comfortable for
him/her and compare it to the visual representation of another ride.

The depth and duration of climbs can even be represented by crosslines on the graph. Has this
already been done? Am I just naive?

Hi, I've written an open-source software for generate maps, profiles and route tables of cycling
routes, simply by clicking on a custom road map (that user must create using a map editor)

CycleAtlas cycleatlas.sourceforge.netcycleatlas.sourceforge.netOpen ↗

Regards
Massi

halftone175 <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

If you want to plot your own rides as I do you can buy this software
delorme.comdefault.aspOpen ↗ (I bought mine on ebay) It builds those graphs you see
at RAGBRAI for any route you want. It also allows you to see the maps in 3d. You can see the total
climbing verses descending . It will show you percent of grade and everything. It will even work
with gps units in both directions . If you have a gps that you can upload a route to , this
software will do it. If you want to see where your local trail runs and plot maps of them you can
download trails from the gps to the software. Its pretty cool Ray

NY Rides said:

Why isn't there a universal method for representing the terrain and difficulty of bike
paths/routes in the form of a graph like the one below?

____________________etc. _____________/ / ____/
_____/

That way, one could become familiar with the basic configuration of a ride that is comfortable
for him/her and compare it to the visual representation of another ride.

The depth and duration of climbs can even be represented by crosslines on the graph. Has this
already been done? Am I just naive?