yet another sucker?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> "dan_s" wrote:
> i admit bought these hubs (staring at my shoes)
> http://mas1.bezeqint.net/cgi-bin/fetch.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D7115403376
> never having campy equipment before i just looked at the text,
> believing i bought record hubs. however there is no mention of
> "record" or any other model on the hubs, and doing some googling, i
> found record hubs don't look like those i bought.
> the seller claims this:
> "These are as stated "Tipo Record". Was like Nuovo record for brief
> period"
> i found no support to that

Quoted message said:

Sheldon Brown said:

"Nuovo Tipo" is Italian for "New Type" and is a lower level model, not
the same quality as Record.
"Record" was and is the top of the line. Strictly speaking, there is
no such thing as "Nuovo Record" hubs...when the "Record" group was
updated to "Nuovo Record" there was no change to the hubs or to
several other components. However, folks do sometimes colloquially
refer to these as "Nuovo" Record.
He _did_ represent them as _Record_ which they most definitely are not.

Mark Janeba said:

Something seems wrong here. I have a Nuovo Tipo front hub on my tandem.
It doesn't look **anything** like the ebay photos referenced above.
My "tipo" hub has a winged-circle (wheel?) logo, the ones in the photo
have the later Campy winged shield logo. The finish on my tipo hub is
(and was) nowhere near as nice as the ones in the photo.

I *thought* the Nuovo Tipo line was dropped when Triomphe and Victory
was introduced or earlier.
Per http://www.campyonly.com/history/timeline.html, the Nuovo Tipo was
introduced in 1967. Was there an "improved" Nuovo Tipo somewhere in
between? (I didn't think so).

Giving the seller the benefit of the doubt, *if* Record hubs ever came
w/o dust caps (I thought they had, sometime between "Nuovo" record and
the modern record), "Tipo Record" could mean simply "Record-type" and
these words might well appear on a Record box. Otherwise I would
suspect these of being Triomphe/Victory models, or something later
(Early Athena?)

Mark's right, those are Triomphe, Victory or early Athena.
(I couldn't access the link earlier)

Personally I could not tell you which of those three even if
they were in my hand. The largest (only?) difference is the
skewer - which is missing.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Sheldon Brown said:

It is my understanding that the classic "Record" hubs were current until
replaced by the goofy and much inferior "C-Record" model.

Gee, I'm not the only guy who (silently) thinks so!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

"Tim McNamara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is what I think of as a Tipo hub:

http://derbyking.com/Detail/?n=46

According to the Velo-Retro Campy timeline, these were introduced in
1967. To quote from Chuck's site:

That photo looks just like the hubs on my late lamented Frejus, purchased
from Gene Portuesi in Detroit in July 1964. As others have noted, those
hubs were less shiny than the photos of the hubs that are the original
subject of the thread.
__o
Keep on Ridin' `\ <
(*)/(*)
***********************************************
* Al Williams [email hidden] *
* San Jose CA Chief Cyclist, DNRC *
***********************************************

dinshar-<< i admit bought these hubs (staring at my shoes)
http://mas1.bezeqint.net/cgi-bin/fetch.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2
Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D7115403376
never having campy equipment before i just looked at the text, believing
i bought record hubs. however there is no mention of "record" >><BR><BR>

I answer-these aren't 'Record' or Tipo or Nuovo Record(no such animal) or C
Record. They are Victory, Athena or Triomphe from the 1985/6 era.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

It should be mentioned that there is no such thing as 'Super' or 'Nuovo' Record
hubs. They were simply 'Record', and had the black oil hole cover. last made in
1987. Tipo were the non oil hole type, normally high flange with round holes.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Quoted message said:

It should be mentioned that there is no such thing as 'Super' or 'Nuovo'
Record
hubs. They were simply 'Record', and had the black oil hole cover. last
made in
1987. Tipo were the non oil hole type, normally high flange with round
holes.

My memory is failing me... what were the Record hubs with Ti axles called?

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It should be mentioned that there is no such thing as 'Super' or 'Nuovo'
Record
hubs. They were simply 'Record', and had the black oil hole cover. last
made in
1987. Tipo were the non oil hole type, normally high flange with round
holes.

My memory is failing me... what were the Record hubs with Ti axles called?

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Mike, not to be sarcastic, but the Campagnolo Record hubs with the Ti axles
were called "junk" because they would most always break.
-tom

"Tom Nakashima" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It should be mentioned that there is no such thing as

'Super' or 'Nuovo'

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Record
hubs. They were simply 'Record', and had the black oil hole

cover. last

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

made in
1987. Tipo were the non oil hole type, normally high flange

with round

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

holes.

My memory is failing me... what were the Record hubs with Ti

axles called?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Mike, not to be sarcastic, but the Campagnolo Record hubs with

the Ti axles

Quoted message said:

were called "junk" because they would most always break.
-tom

I remember the Super Record Ti bottom bracket, but I do not
remember a production Record or Super Record hub with Ti axles. I
thought Campy came up with a prototype Super Record hub with Ti
axles in the mid '70s and then dumped it. -- Jay Beattie.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

It should be mentioned that there is no such thing as 'Super' or 'Nuovo' Record
hubs. They were simply 'Record', and had the black oil hole cover. last made in
1987. Tipo were the non oil hole type, normally high flange with round holes.

Didn't they have a titanium-axle hub for a short while (until
they figured out that Ti axles were a really bad idea) in the
'70's? If so, wouldn't it have been designated Super Record?

Larry Coon
University of California

I don't understand your complaint ... it says "Tipo" right there in the ad. That's why people put pictures in their ad, and in this case it was clear. Good heavens, this has generated a lot of controversy but I can't honestly believe people think you were ripped off here. If people put up an ad on Ebay listing a '67 Corvette, but they're actually selling a '79 Mustang and it's clearly pictured, well, as long as the pics are of the item you got I don't see what right you have to complain. I must be missing something.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

> never having campy equipment before i just looked at the text, believing i

Quoted message said:

bought record hubs. however there is no mention of "record" or any other
model on the hubs, and doing some googling, i found record hubs don't look
like those i bought.
the seller claims this:
"These are as stated "Tipo Record". Was like Nuovo record for brief
period"
i found no support to that
can anyone tell if these are RECORD hubs or not
thanks
dan

Tipo hubs weren't bad per se, but nowhere even close to the quality of
Record (either Super or Nuovo). The main issue we saw was relatively
short-lasting bearing surfaces (on a well-maintained Nuovo Record hub, rear
axles would break from time to time, but the bearing surfaces would last
FOREVER... still have a few of them going strong after many, many years).

Tipo was never a substitute for Nuovo Record, even for a "brief period." It
would be similar to the differences between Record and Veloce today.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

davidd86 said:

I don't understand your complaint ... it says "Tipo" right there in the
ad.

But "Tipo" by itself is meaningless. That's Italian for "type." All
hubs are some type or other.

"Record", on the other hand, refers to the top-of-the line model, which
these most definitely were NOT, despite the fact that the ad said they were.

Quoted message said:

That's why people put pictures in their ad, and in this case it
was clear.

Not everybody has the knowledge to identify specific Campagnolo models
by looking at them, especially since Campagnolo is not in the habit of
marking the model name on their products.

Indeed, none of the Campagnolo experts who have posted in this thread
has been able to make a definitive identification on the basis of the
photos. It has been narrowed down to about three low-end models, but
without the skewers there doesn't seem to be any way to say exactly what
they are.

Quoted message said:

Good heavens, this has generated a lot of controversy but I
can't honestly believe people think you were ripped off here. If people
put up an ad on Ebay listing a '67 Corvette, but they're actually
selling a '79 Mustang and it's clearly pictured, well, as long as the
pics are of the item you got I don't see what right you have to
complain.

I used to own an '82 'vette. Perhaps I should have sold it on eBay with
a blurry photo.

Wouldn't the buyer have been surprised when it turned out to be a
Chevette, not a Corvette!

Sheldon "Caveat Emptor" Brown
+--------------------------------------------------------+
| You can fool some of the people all of the time, |
| and those are the ones we're after! --Anon. |
+--------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

davidd86 said:

I don't understand your complaint ... it says "Tipo" right there in the
ad. That's why people put pictures in their ad, and in this case it
was clear. Good heavens, this has generated a lot of controversy but I
can't honestly believe people think you were ripped off here.

I wouldn't call it a "ripoff," but if someone got the wrong
impression based on incorrect info in MY ad (conflicting
correct info notwithstanding), I'd offer a return with a
full refund, including shipping. If the OP was misled by
the ad and didn't get what he thought he was buying, he
should ask for the same.

Larry Coon
University of California

Quoted message said:

I remember the Super Record Ti bottom bracket, but I do not
remember a production Record or Super Record hub with Ti axles. I
thought Campy came up with a prototype Super Record hub with Ti
axles in the mid '70s and then dumped it. -- Jay Beattie.

Jay: I'm pretty sure I recall Ti (and very breakable) hub axles that existed
for a year, but it could very well be that I'm confusing them with the
bottom bracket. My memory may be as faulty as the typical Campy rear axle of
the day...

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It should be mentioned that there is no such thing as 'Super' or 'Nuovo'
Record
hubs. They were simply 'Record', and had the black oil hole cover. last
made in
1987. Tipo were the non oil hole type, normally high flange with round
holes.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

My memory is failing me... what were the Record hubs with Ti axles called?

They were called "o.e.m. only" to a few Italian builders.
Rumor has it that the Super Record hub only went to 1000
pairs. So there were 'virtually' no Super Record.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I agree with Sheldon. Sell something after you have done the research as to
exactly what it is. There are plenty of people that have heard of Campagnolo
'Record' but cannot identify the specifics.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Mike J-<< My memory is failing me... what were the Record hubs with Ti axles
called? >><BR><BR>

The group was collectively called 'Record TI', with lots of ti bits, rear der,
brakes, etc. Came out in 1996, adios by 1998.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Tom-<< Mike, not to be sarcastic, but the Campagnolo Record hubs with the Ti
axles
were called "junk" because they would most always break. >><BR><BR>

I say-not to be argumentative, but the 1996 model rear hub never 'broke' The
1997/8 one had some lower bearing freehub problems, but the hub/axle was fine
and dandy.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Sheldon Brown said:

"Nuovo Tipo" is Italian for "New Type" and is a lower level model, not
the same quality as Record.

The eBay listing was false and misleading to call these "Record type"
hubs, whether in Italian or English.

As the owner of a pair of Nuovo Tipo hubs (36 spoke, laced to MA2s) it
bothers me when someone refers to these as "Tipos". As Sheldon rightly
points out, "tipo" means "type" in Italian, something I've known since
I was a kid and read about Ferrari Tipo 166s (and Tipo 500s, Tipo
850s, etc). If someone refered to a Ferrari Tipo, the true tifosi
would say, "huh?". Why do some persist in calling these hubs Campy
Tipos?

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

John Everett said:

Sheldon Brown said:

"Nuovo Tipo" is Italian for "New Type" and is a lower level model, not
the same quality as Record.

The eBay listing was false and misleading to call these "Record type"
hubs, whether in Italian or English.

As the owner of a pair of Nuovo Tipo hubs (36 spoke, laced to MA2s) it
bothers me when someone refers to these as "Tipos". As Sheldon rightly
points out, "tipo" means "type" in Italian, something I've known since
I was a kid and read about Ferrari Tipo 166s (and Tipo 500s, Tipo
850s, etc). If someone refered to a Ferrari Tipo, the true tifosi
would say, "huh?". Why do some persist in calling these hubs Campy
Tipos?

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

You are perfectly right. But then there is the FIAT Tipo
(http://www.tipo.republika.pl/)... :-p

(seriously, you're right)

Francesco

"Stat magni nominis umbra." - Lucanus

John Everett said:

Sheldon Brown said:

"Nuovo Tipo" is Italian for "New Type" and is a lower level model, not
the same quality as Record.

The eBay listing was false and misleading to call these "Record type"
hubs, whether in Italian or English.

As the owner of a pair of Nuovo Tipo hubs (36 spoke, laced to MA2s) it
bothers me when someone refers to these as "Tipos". As Sheldon rightly
points out, "tipo" means "type" in Italian, something I've known since
I was a kid and read about Ferrari Tipo 166s (and Tipo 500s, Tipo
850s, etc). If someone refered to a Ferrari Tipo, the true tifosi
would say, "huh?". Why do some persist in calling these hubs Campy
Tipos?

Because people often use contractions in common speech, especially
when that contraction's meaning would (or should) be understood as
part of the jargon spoken by a special group. One wouldn't shorten
"Nuovo Tipo" to "Nuovo" because it would be confused with Nuovo
Record. Even Campagnolo catalogs came to drop the Gran Sport
designation and simply call them "Nuovo Tipo" hubs (or by their model
numbers).

Whether referred to as Tipo or Gran Sport Nuovo Tipo, there should be
no confusion about which hubs were under discussion.

Of course, *real* cognoscenti will call them 1251 or 1253.
-------------------------------
John Dacey
Business Cycles, Miami, Florida
Since 1983
Comprehensive catalogue of track equipment: online since 1996.
http://www.businesscycles.com