You want real trouble, try this:

Quoted message said:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801

Jobst Brandt

I've always wondered how the same inefficient, inept, corrupt,venal,
totally ineffective governmental agencies riddled with publicity hungry
politicians and disgruntled employees suddenly become so omnipotent
when it suits some evil purpose. Of course, I also wonder how
presumably intelligent college educated individuals can reconcile a
belief in democracy when the politicians that get elected are either
absolutely evil (the comspirators) or fools (those that are unaware of
the existence of the conspiracy). Maybe I'll make a video about that.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Bob said:

Quoted message said:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801

Jobst Brandt

I've always wondered how the same inefficient, inept, corrupt,venal,
totally ineffective governmental agencies riddled with publicity
hungry politicians and disgruntled employees suddenly become so
omnipotent when it suits some evil purpose. Of course, I also wonder
how presumably intelligent college educated individuals can reconcile
a belief in democracy when the politicians that get elected are either
absolutely evil (the comspirators) or fools (those that are unaware of
the existence of the conspiracy). Maybe I'll make a video about that.

What's /really/ hilarious is that JB posts stuff from wacko blog sites --
fairly regularly -- and yet often gets indignant when others exhibit "sloppy
thinking" (IHO).

Of coure, he once flamed someone for posting a /ride report/ on RB-misc,
since there's a more appropriate group (called RB-rides, presumably). I'm
almost positive he posted a political troll the very same day, BTW. LOL

That's our JB... BS

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801

Jobst Brandt

Why is it people think our government can orchestrate these elaborate
deceptions, and keep them secret, but cannot manage to avoid infighting,
incompetence and corruption in the day to day running of the country?

Try this for a more rational read of the "evidence".

http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide.html

Tim

Tim McTeague said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801

Jobst Brandt

Why is it people think our government can orchestrate these elaborate
deceptions, and keep them secret, but cannot manage to avoid infighting,
incompetence and corruption in the day to day running of the country?

Well, they're obviously not
very good at it; they get
caught all the time!

Bob said:

I've always wondered how the same inefficient, inept, corrupt,venal,
totally ineffective governmental agencies riddled with publicity hungry
politicians and disgruntled employees suddenly become so omnipotent
when it suits some evil purpose. Of course, I also wonder how
presumably intelligent college educated individuals can reconcile a
belief in democracy when the politicians that get elected are either
absolutely evil (the comspirators) or fools (those that are unaware of
the existence of the conspiracy). Maybe I'll make a video about that.

I wonder at those who can't distinguish a democracy from a republic.

In article said:

Why is it people think our government can orchestrate these elaborate
deceptions, and keep them secret, but cannot manage to avoid infighting,
incompetence and corruption in the day to day running of the country?

The infighting is mostly drama that keeps our eye off the ball. If you
watch what both parties actually do it is a consistant movement in the
same direction.

As far as stupidity goes, stupidity works as an explaination until there
are too many things for it to work any more. the events of 11-sept-2001
have reached that point. Too many people told told to stand down, too
many oddities, too many everything.

Keeping it secret? It hasn't been. Problem is if you just stick with
what the mainstream press puts out front you'd never notice that it
hasn't been kept secret as one government employee, appointee, etc after
another brings forth another piece of evidence.

While 'loose change' has many hole, the government's conspirsy theory is
one of the weakest and least supportable of the bunch. Actually the
government's story IMO is somewhere just above the pods-on-the-airliner
theory.

Paul Cassel said:

Bob said:

I've always wondered how the same inefficient, inept, corrupt,venal,
totally ineffective governmental agencies riddled with publicity hungry
politicians and disgruntled employees suddenly become so omnipotent
when it suits some evil purpose. Of course, I also wonder how
presumably intelligent college educated individuals can reconcile a
belief in democracy when the politicians that get elected are either
absolutely evil (the comspirators) or fools (those that are unaware of
the existence of the conspiracy). Maybe I'll make a video about that.

I wonder at those who can't distinguish a democracy from a republic.

I also wonder about those who can't distinguish the difference between
"a" democracy and democracy. Maybe I'll make a video series.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Brent P said:

In article said:

Why is it people think our government can orchestrate these elaborate
deceptions, and keep them secret, but cannot manage to avoid infighting,
incompetence and corruption in the day to day running of the country?

The infighting is mostly drama that keeps our eye off the ball. If you
watch what both parties actually do it is a consistant movement in the
same direction.

word.

In rec.bicycles.misc Bob said:

Paul Cassel said:

I wonder at those who can't distinguish a democracy from a republic.

I also wonder about those who can't distinguish the difference between
"a" democracy and democracy. Maybe I'll make a video series.

You might want to keep it simpler. A set of flash cards cards might be
efficacious. On the other hand, given the attention span of the
average TV viewer, you might have to condense it down to a 3 second
blip-vert. [1] Of course, then you might have problems with the more
corpulent viewers exploding.

[1] I really should see if that's available on DVD now.

--
Dane Buson - [email hidden]
The older a man gets, the farther he had to walk to school as a boy.

Bob said:

Quoted message said:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801

Jobst Brandt

I've always wondered how the same inefficient, inept, corrupt,venal,
totally ineffective governmental agencies riddled with publicity hungry
politicians and disgruntled employees suddenly become so omnipotent
when it suits some evil purpose. Of course, I also wonder how
presumably intelligent college educated individuals can reconcile a
belief in democracy when the politicians that get elected are either
absolutely evil (the comspirators) or fools (those that are unaware of
the existence of the conspiracy). Maybe I'll make a video about that.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Hopefully, intelligent college-educated individuals do *not* believe in
a democracy, which our founders avoided, since they believed that they
inevitably lead to dictatorships, but in a constitutional republic, as
we have/had.

Read the Federalist Papers for more information about this.

It is very interesting, when listening to old speeches circa the
1950's, you can often hear the orater referring, correctly, to the
Republic. No mention of democracy.

Pureheart

(To Ben Franklin, as he was leaving the constitutional convention):
"Well, what do we have professor??

Franklin: "A replubic...if you can keep it."

Quoted message said:

Bob said:

Quoted message said:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801

Jobst Brandt

I've always wondered how the same inefficient, inept, corrupt,venal,
totally ineffective governmental agencies riddled with publicity hungry
politicians and disgruntled employees suddenly become so omnipotent
when it suits some evil purpose. Of course, I also wonder how
presumably intelligent college educated individuals can reconcile a
belief in democracy when the politicians that get elected are either
absolutely evil (the comspirators) or fools (those that are unaware of
the existence of the conspiracy). Maybe I'll make a video about that.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Hopefully, intelligent college-educated individuals do *not* believe in
a democracy, which our founders avoided, since they believed that they
inevitably lead to dictatorships, but in a constitutional republic, as
we have/had.

Read the Federalist Papers for more information about this.

It is very interesting, when listening to old speeches circa the
1950's, you can often hear the orater referring, correctly, to the
Republic. No mention of democracy.

Pureheart

(To Ben Franklin, as he was leaving the constitutional convention):
"Well, what do we have professor??

Franklin: "A replubic...if you can keep it."

I've read the Federalist Papers, apparently closer than you read my
post since I didn't write about "_a_ democracy" but "democracy". BTW,
FDR's "Arsenal of democracy" fireside chat predates those unspecified
orations you mention by a few years. I guess he knew the difference
between a philosophy and a bureaucracy.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

"Tim McTeague" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:cLSdnSO9Tc-
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801

Jobst Brandt

Why is it people think our government can orchestrate these elaborate
deceptions, and keep them secret, but cannot manage to avoid infighting,
incompetence and corruption in the day to day running of the country?

Who killed JFK? They can keep a secret if they want to.

Quoted message said:

Try this for a more rational read of the "evidence".

http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide.html

Tim

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[email hidden] (Brent P) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Chris

Foster said:

"Tim McTeague" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:cLSdnSO9Tc-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why is it people think our government can orchestrate these
elaborate deceptions, and keep them secret, but cannot manage to
avoid infighting, incompetence and corruption in the day to day
running of the country?

Quoted message said:

Who killed JFK? They can keep a secret if they want to.

The government just passes laws to keep the documentation secret and
kookifies anyone who questions the offical story no matter how much
evidence there is.

But hey, if you want to believe a single man (military
intelligence/CIA) pulled off super human shooting with an obsolete
rifle from a location that didn't lend itself to expert marksmanship
then you'll want to believe some guy (CIA's Tim Osmond) living in a
cave with kidney disease requiring dialysis commanded 19 men, some
very poorly skilled pilots of small aircraft to take over commerical
airliners and fly them into buildings. After all, it's just those
rogue crazy people that do stuff like this....

My point was that the US Govt CAN keep a secret, and keep it very well.

9/11 was pulled off by the US Govt as far as I can tell.
Prety sure the US Govt killed Martin Luther King too.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

In article said:

"Tim McTeague" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:cLSdnSO9Tc-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why is it people think our government can orchestrate these elaborate
deceptions, and keep them secret, but cannot manage to avoid infighting,
incompetence and corruption in the day to day running of the country?

Quoted message said:

Who killed JFK? They can keep a secret if they want to.

The government just passes laws to keep the documentation secret and
kookifies anyone who questions the offical story no matter how much
evidence there is.

But hey, if you want to believe a single man (military
intelligence/CIA) pulled off super human shooting with an obsolete rifle
from a location that didn't lend itself to expert marksmanship then
you'll want to believe some guy (CIA's Tim Osmond) living in a
cave with kidney disease requiring dialysis commanded 19 men, some very
poorly skilled pilots of small aircraft to take over commerical
airliners and fly them into buildings. After all, it's just those rogue
crazy people that do stuff like this....

Brent P said:

Quoted message said:

Who killed JFK? They can keep a secret if they want to.

The government just passes laws to keep the documentation secret and
kookifies anyone who questions the offical story no matter how much
evidence there is.

But hey, if you want to believe a single man (military
intelligence/CIA) pulled off super human shooting with an obsolete rifle
from a location that didn't lend itself to expert marksmanship then
you'll want to believe some guy (CIA's Tim Osmond) living in a
cave with kidney disease requiring dialysis commanded 19 men, some very
poorly skilled pilots of small aircraft to take over commerical
airliners and fly them into buildings. After all, it's just those rogue
crazy people that do stuff like this....

Even allowing for the downward angle, there's absolutely nothing
superhuman about hitting a slow-moving target with a scoped rifle at a
range measured in feet not yards but that's beside the point. If they
want to avoid the "kook" label here are a few of the questions the 9/11
conspiracy theorists need to answer--
If 9/11 was a plot by some shadowy government types, who were they?
What did they gain? Why did they target the Twin Towers, why not stick
with easily identifiably political targets like the Pentagon? Since
operations like that would require advance planning, why didn't they
leak phony advance warnings that would make blaming al Queda just that
much easier later? How did they fake the video footage of airliners
crashing into the Twin Towers? Where are all the witnesses that
*didn't* see that? Where are all the unwitting dupes- the technicians,
clerks, mechanics, stock traders, etcetera- that would have had to seen
bits and pieces of the conspiracy?
Until they give reasonable answers to at least these questions, the
conspiracy theorists will be justly labelled kooks.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

P.S.- To answer the question in your post, it was Lee Harvey Oswald.
;-)

In article said:

Even allowing for the downward angle, there's absolutely nothing
superhuman about hitting a slow-moving target with a scoped rifle at a
range measured in feet not yards but that's beside the point. If they
want to avoid the "kook" label here are a few of the questions the 9/11
conspiracy theorists need to answer--

Making a bullet do what the government said it did and getting that many
shots off that accurately with that rifle is. No one has ever been able
to duplicate it, not even the government's own marksman.

Quoted message said:

If 9/11 was a plot by some shadowy government types, who were they?

Didn't say it was. I implied the government's conspirsy theory is weak.
If there was full disclosure of the evidence by the government we may be
able to determine who was actually involved in many of the aspects that
have not been able to remain secret and more.

Quoted message said:

What did they gain?

Money, loss of liberty in USA, invasions of Iraq and Afganistan. It is
about control.

Quoted message said:

Why did they target the Twin Towers,

High profile. Possible profit (to the leaseholder) and theft (gold).

Quoted message said:

why not stick
with easily identifiably political targets like the Pentagon?

Not a strong enough 'message'.

Quoted message said:

Since
operations like that would require advance planning, why didn't they
leak phony advance warnings that would make blaming al Queda just that
much easier later?

For the same reason it is not liked when evidence is brought out that
people were told to stand down and do nothing about it.

Quoted message said:

How did they fake the video footage of airliners
crashing into the Twin Towers?

Ahh... never mind, you're one of those government story swallowers who
think that anyone who questions the government story must believe every
other theory no matter how kooky it is. You're just another person who
doesn't think, who just tries kookify anyone who does.

As I stated before, the government theory is not much more than a notch
above the pods-on-the-planes theory. The pods on planes theory being a
few notches above the no-planes-hit-the-towers theory. The government's
conspirsy theory is astoundingly weak. Especially when the 'highjackers'
they blame turn up alive overseas.

(Brent P) said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Bob wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How did they fake the video footage of airliners
crashing into the Twin Towers?

Ahh... never mind, you're one of those government story swallowers who
think that anyone who questions the government story must believe every
other theory no matter how kooky it is. You're just another person who
doesn't think, who just tries kookify anyone who does.

In some cases, there are simply no other options. This is one of
those cases.

For example, my daughter watched the second plane fly into the tower
from the 40th floor of a building about a mile away. I suppose she's
"in on it too", huh? If you knew her, you'd know how ironic that
would be.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Mark Hickey said:

(Brent P) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Bob wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How did they fake the video footage of airliners
crashing into the Twin Towers?

Ahh... never mind, you're one of those government story swallowers
who
think that anyone who questions the government story must believe
every
other theory no matter how kooky it is. You're just another person
who doesn't think, who just tries kookify anyone who does.

In some cases, there are simply no other options. This is one of
those cases.

For example, my daughter watched the second plane fly into the tower
from the 40th floor of a building about a mile away. I suppose she's
"in on it too", huh? If you knew her, you'd know how ironic that
would be.

Funny, I was watching "Today" -- which I never watch but had flipped to once
the first "accident" happened -- and SAW the second plane's impact "live and
in color". It was obvious that second that the US was under attack -- by a
country or terrorists or both -- further confirmed maybe 20 minutes later
when there was an "explosion" at the Pentagon.

Who knew the whole thing was faked?

BS (ayyup)

In article said:

(Brent P) said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Bob wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How did they fake the video footage of airliners
crashing into the Twin Towers?

Ahh... never mind, you're one of those government story swallowers who
think that anyone who questions the government story must believe every
other theory no matter how kooky it is. You're just another person who
doesn't think, who just tries kookify anyone who does.

In some cases, there are simply no other options. This is one of
those cases.

Quoted message said:

For example, my daughter watched the second plane fly into the tower
from the 40th floor of a building about a mile away. I suppose she's
"in on it too", huh? If you knew her, you'd know how ironic that
would be.

Keep playing along with the concept that any questioning of government
means believeing in the kookiest thing out there and we'll be living
under tyranny in no time.

Thanks for proving my point.

Just because I question why good people were told to stand down when
they uncovered portions of the plot, just because I question who
benefits, just because I question why the steel was sent off for
recycling in china quickly without testing, just because I question
these things and many others that deserve to be questioned, you and the
rest of the sheeple just belittle it with assinine commentary implying
that the person questioning believes that it wasn't planes that hit the
towers.

Your kind doesn't deserve liberty or freedom. You deserve to live as the
slave you want to be, beliving what you are fed, never questioning the
government, never watching the government, always trusting the
government. Governments need to be watched, not the people. Government
cannot be trusted, government must always be questioned. Failure to do
so means tyranny.