Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries



D

Dave

Guest
Like everything else the self proclaimed scientific geniuses
are ignorant of what goes on in the world outside of their
little cubicle.

This article about a breakthrough by medical science was
superceded by the creation of our immune system whenever
and however you happen to believe that occurred. We all have
had the ability to grow healthy new arteries (and damaged heart
muscle) since the beginning of time. Medical science hasn't
discovered that yet and wonders why we don't blindly trust their
expertise.

If you do a Google search on growing arteries you will find
volumes of information, apparently unknown to the medical
"pretenders" in this ....place.

http://www.businessweek.com/1999/99_28/b3637010.htm

Growing Arteries

One of the most exciting frontiers in gene therapy is in the treatment of
heart disease. Dr. Ronald G. Crystal of Cornell University's Weill Medical
College in New York is one of several researchers who have devised an
alternative to bypass surgery or angioplasty. Crystal's version of the
therapy uses an engineered adenovirus with a gene that promotes blood-vessel
growth. When the virus is injected into a patient near blocked coronary
arteries, it can trigger the growth of new arteries--a kind of
''bio-bypass'' around the clogged vessels. Early results are encouraging,
but it will be at least two years before tests are completed, Crystal said.
The trials are being run by GenVec Inc. of Rockville, Md., with Parke-Davis
Pharmaceutical Research, a division of Warner-Lambert Co.

If you don't want to wait for the 2 or 7 years, you can eat ginseng, eat
SBGA, drink NONI juice, etc., etc. Restore your immune system and your body
will heal itself. That's how it
was "designed" to work.

http://www.rcpg.com/growarteries.shtml


Growing New Heart Arteries

One of the most exciting current areas of heart research involves finding
ways for the heart to grow a new blood supply once the coronary arteries
have become blocked up with plaque. This is especially important for
patients with blockages that cannot be helped by conventional balloon or
bypass procedures.

The heart is actually very good at growing tiny little arteries we call
collaterals. These collaterals can act as nature's own bypasses. If one of
the heart arteries is completely blocked, one of the other heart arteries
will grow these little blood vessels over to the plugged artery.
 
--

"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Like everything else the self proclaimed scientific geniuses
> are ignorant of what goes on in the world outside of their
> little cubicle.

Who here has claimed scientific genius? What cubicle?


>
> This article about a breakthrough by medical science was
> superceded by the creation of our immune system whenever
> and however you happen to believe that occurred. We all have
> had the ability to grow healthy new arteries (and damaged heart
> muscle) since the beginning of time.

Here is where YOUR ignorance is showing. The immune system has no role in
the develoment of collateral circulation or in the healing of cardiac
muscle. Those processes occur even in people with organ transplants whose
immune systems are intentionally suppressed. As for "since the beginning of
time," there weren't any hearts around at the time of the Big Bang. By the
way, if you imagine that the heart can regrow healthy new muscle to replace
an infarcted segment of the organ, that's not exactly true. The necrotic
tissue is replaced with scar tissue, and the consequent remodeling of the
heart and its effect on heart function is one of the complications of
myocardial infarction.


> Medical science hasn't
> discovered that yet and wonders why we don't blindly trust their
> expertise.
>

The knowledge of collateral circulation dates back more than a century.


> If you do a Google search on growing arteries you will find
> volumes of information, apparently unknown to the medical
> "pretenders" in this ....place.

The medical professionals here know a lot more than you about collateral
circulation without needing to Google the subject.

>
> http://www.businessweek.com/1999/99_28/b3637010.htm
>
> Growing Arteries
>
> One of the most exciting frontiers in gene therapy is in the treatment of
> heart disease. Dr. Ronald G. Crystal of Cornell University's Weill Medical
> College in New York is one of several researchers who have devised an
> alternative to bypass surgery or angioplasty. Crystal's version of the
> therapy uses an engineered adenovirus with a gene that promotes
blood-vessel
> growth. When the virus is injected into a patient near blocked coronary
> arteries, it can trigger the growth of new arteries--a kind of
> ''bio-bypass'' around the clogged vessels. Early results are encouraging,
> but it will be at least two years before tests are completed, Crystal
said.
> The trials are being run by GenVec Inc. of Rockville, Md., with
Parke-Davis
> Pharmaceutical Research, a division of Warner-Lambert Co.
>
> If you don't want to wait for the 2 or 7 years, you can eat ginseng, eat
> SBGA, drink NONI juice, etc., etc. Restore your immune system and your
body
> will heal itself. That's how it
> was "designed" to work.

Once again, the immune system is not involved in collateral circulation.
"Restore your immune system" is only sales hype anyway. There is no reason
to believe that a heart patient's immune system is in need of restoration,
and you have presented no evidence that supplements achieve that
restoration. The human body "works" just fine on a balanced, supplement free
diet. It does not need pond scum or nonsense juice to function.

--Rich
 
"Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> --
>
> "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Like everything else the self proclaimed scientific geniuses
> > are ignorant of what goes on in the world outside of their
> > little cubicle.
>
> Who here has claimed scientific genius? What cubicle?
>
>
> >
> > This article about a breakthrough by medical science was
> > superceded by the creation of our immune system whenever
> > and however you happen to believe that occurred. We all have
> > had the ability to grow healthy new arteries (and damaged heart
> > muscle) since the beginning of time.
>
> Here is where YOUR ignorance is showing. The immune system has no role in
> the develoment of collateral circulation or in the healing of cardiac
> muscle. Those processes occur even in people with organ transplants whose
> immune systems are intentionally suppressed. As for "since the beginning
of
> time," there weren't any hearts around at the time of the Big Bang. By the
> way, if you imagine that the heart can regrow healthy new muscle to
replace
> an infarcted segment of the organ, that's not exactly true. The necrotic
> tissue is replaced with scar tissue, and the consequent remodeling of the
> heart and its effect on heart function is one of the complications of
> myocardial infarction.

When you have nothing intelligent to say you say nothing intelligent.
Intentinally suppressng the immune system should be against the law. It is
part of
the maiming that you say you don't do. Then say you do. Then say you don't.
That aside, the growth of

> > Medical science hasn't
> > discovered that yet and wonders why we don't blindly trust their
> > expertise.
> >
>
> The knowledge of collateral circulation dates back more than a century.
>
>
> > If you do a Google search on growing arteries you will find
> > volumes of information, apparently unknown to the medical
> > "pretenders" in this ....place.
>
> The medical professionals here know a lot more than you about collateral
> circulation without needing to Google the subject.

There are no medical professionals here, only medical "pretenders".
The evidence that what you say is incorrect is too obvious to require
running
about looking for information.

I have never seen you post a single piece of useful or helpful information.
Your
"job" is to mindlessly criticize and disparage things that you have no
knowledge
of. Post something helpful to us and we'll evaluate it for you from the
consumers
point of view.

Your above comment that the iommune system doesn't do much and doesn't run
down is so ludicrus that, if that isn't a shilling ploy, then explain in
just why the
immune sysrtem exists.



> >
> > http://www.businessweek.com/1999/99_28/b3637010.htm
> >
> > Growing Arteries
> >
> > One of the most exciting frontiers in gene therapy is in the treatment
of
> > heart disease. Dr. Ronald G. Crystal of Cornell University's Weill
Medical
> > College in New York is one of several researchers who have devised an
> > alternative to bypass surgery or angioplasty. Crystal's version of the
> > therapy uses an engineered adenovirus with a gene that promotes
> blood-vessel
> > growth. When the virus is injected into a patient near blocked coronary
> > arteries, it can trigger the growth of new arteries--a kind of
> > ''bio-bypass'' around the clogged vessels. Early results are
encouraging,
> > but it will be at least two years before tests are completed, Crystal
> said.
> > The trials are being run by GenVec Inc. of Rockville, Md., with
> Parke-Davis
> > Pharmaceutical Research, a division of Warner-Lambert Co.
> >
> > If you don't want to wait for the 2 or 7 years, you can eat ginseng, eat
> > SBGA, drink NONI juice, etc., etc. Restore your immune system and your
> body
> > will heal itself. That's how it
> > was "designed" to work.
>
> Once again, the immune system is not involved in collateral circulation.
> "Restore your immune system" is only sales hype anyway. There is no reason
> to believe that a heart patient's immune system is in need of restoration,
> and you have presented no evidence that supplements achieve that
> restoration. The human body "works" just fine on a balanced, supplement
free
> diet. It does not need pond scum or nonsense juice to function.
>
> --Rich
 
>Subject: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
>From: "Dave" [email protected]
>Date: 10/18/2003 6:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <[email protected]>
>
>Like everything else the self

>proclaimed scientific geniuses
>are ignorant of what goes on in the world outside of their
>little cubicle.

>We all have
>had the ability to grow healthy new arteries (and damaged heart
>muscle) since the beginning of time

>One of the most exciting frontiers in gene therapy is in the treatment of
>heart disease. Dr. Ronald G.

read it Davey....."no we do NOT have the ability to grow new healthy arteries
and damaged heart muscle since the beginning of time"

>Crystal's version of the
>therapy uses an engineered adenovirus with a gene that promotes blood-vessel
>growth. When the virus is injected into a patient near blocked

you need to read up on "gene therapy"...

it is a totally new..and potentially very exciting therapy..

however...> Early results are encouraging,
>but it will be at least two years before tests are completed, Crystal said.

>The trials are being run by GenVec Inc. of Rockville, Md., with Parke-Davis
>Pharmaceutical Research, a division of Warner-Lambert Co.
>

"tests are encouraging"..."but it will be at least two years " "trials"

so how did your twisted mine interpret this as being "knowledge since the
beginning of time?"

what a moron

>If you don't want to wait for the 2 or 7 years, you can eat ginseng, eat
>SBGA, drink NONI juice, etc., etc. Restore your immune system and your body
>will heal itself. That's how it
>was "designed" to work.
>
>http://www.rcpg.com/growarteries.shtml
>
>
>Growing New Heart Arteries
>
>One of the most exciting current areas of heart research involves finding
>ways for the heart to grow a new blood supply once the coronary arteries
>have become blocked up with plaque. This is especially important for
>patients with blockages that cannot be helped by conventional balloon or
>bypass procedures.
>
>The heart is actually very good at growing tiny little arteries we call
>collaterals. These collaterals can act as nature's own bypasses. If one of
>the heart arteries is completely blocked, one of the other heart arteries
>will grow these little blood vessels over to the plugged artery.
>

yeah we all know about collaterals.....if you had EVER seen an angiogram up
close..you will see that collaterals are pretty tiny...they go around the
blocked artery...collaterals CANNOT restored necrotic heart muscles...tho for
some they may prolong life,,and may even reduce angina

ain't got nothing to do with the immune system....

the article you posted discusses gene therapy....this is preliminary..still in
early trials...but I for one would LOVE to see this work..

eating ginseng...drinking none juice will of course do NOTHING without the
stem cells...


hawki
 
"Hawki63" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >Subject: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
> >From: "Dave" [email protected]
> >Date: 10/18/2003 6:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <[email protected]>
> >
> >Like everything else the self
>
> >proclaimed scientific geniuses
> >are ignorant of what goes on in the world outside of their
> >little cubicle.
>
> >We all have
> >had the ability to grow healthy new arteries (and damaged heart
> >muscle) since the beginning of time
>
> >One of the most exciting frontiers in gene therapy is in the treatment of
> >heart disease. Dr. Ronald G.
>
> read it Davey....."no we do NOT have the ability to grow new healthy
arteries
> and damaged heart muscle since the beginning of time"
>
> >Crystal's version of the
> >therapy uses an engineered adenovirus with a gene that promotes
blood-vessel
> >growth. When the virus is injected into a patient near blocked
>
> you need to read up on "gene therapy"...
>
> it is a totally new..and potentially very exciting therapy..
>
> however...> Early results are encouraging,
> >but it will be at least two years before tests are completed, Crystal
said.
>
> >The trials are being run by GenVec Inc. of Rockville, Md., with
Parke-Davis
> >Pharmaceutical Research, a division of Warner-Lambert Co.
> >
>
> "tests are encouraging"..."but it will be at least two years " "trials"
>
> so how did your twisted mine interpret this as being "knowledge since the
> beginning of time?"
>
> what a moron
>
> >If you don't want to wait for the 2 or 7 years, you can eat ginseng, eat
> >SBGA, drink NONI juice, etc., etc. Restore your immune system and your
body
> >will heal itself. That's how it
> >was "designed" to work.
> >
> >http://www.rcpg.com/growarteries.shtml
> >
> >
> >Growing New Heart Arteries
> >
> >One of the most exciting current areas of heart research involves finding
> >ways for the heart to grow a new blood supply once the coronary arteries
> >have become blocked up with plaque. This is especially important for
> >patients with blockages that cannot be helped by conventional balloon or
> >bypass procedures.
> >
> >The heart is actually very good at growing tiny little arteries we call
> >collaterals. These collaterals can act as nature's own bypasses. If one
of
> >the heart arteries is completely blocked, one of the other heart arteries
> >will grow these little blood vessels over to the plugged artery.
> >
>
> yeah we all know about collaterals.....if you had EVER seen an angiogram
up
> close..you will see that collaterals are pretty tiny...they go around the
> blocked artery...collaterals CANNOT restored necrotic heart muscles...tho
for
> some they may prolong life,,and may even reduce angina
>
> ain't got nothing to do with the immune system....
>
> the article you posted discusses gene therapy....this is
preliminary..still in
> early trials...but I for one would LOVE to see this work..
>
> eating ginseng...drinking none juice will of course do NOTHING without
the
> stem cells...
>
>
> hawki
 
"Hawki63" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >Subject: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
> >From: "Dave" [email protected]
> >Date: 10/18/2003 6:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <[email protected]>
> >
> >Like everything else the self
>
> >proclaimed scientific geniuses
> >are ignorant of what goes on in the world outside of their
> >little cubicle.
>
> >We all have
> >had the ability to grow healthy new arteries (and damaged heart
> >muscle) since the beginning of time
>
> >One of the most exciting frontiers in gene therapy is in the treatment of
> >heart disease. Dr. Ronald G.
>
> read it Davey....."no we do NOT have the ability to grow new healthy
arteries
> and damaged heart muscle since the beginning of time"
>
> >Crystal's version of the
> >therapy uses an engineered adenovirus with a gene that promotes
blood-vessel
> >growth. When the virus is injected into a patient near blocked
>
> you need to read up on "gene therapy"...
>
> it is a totally new..and potentially very exciting therapy..
>
> however...> Early results are encouraging,
> >but it will be at least two years before tests are completed, Crystal
said.
>
> >The trials are being run by GenVec Inc. of Rockville, Md., with
Parke-Davis
> >Pharmaceutical Research, a division of Warner-Lambert Co.
> >
>
> "tests are encouraging"..."but it will be at least two years " "trials"
>
> so how did your twisted mine interpret this as being "knowledge since the
> beginning of time?"
>
> what a moron
>
> >If you don't want to wait for the 2 or 7 years, you can eat ginseng, eat
> >SBGA, drink NONI juice, etc., etc. Restore your immune system and your
body
> >will heal itself. That's how it
> >was "designed" to work.
> >
> >http://www.rcpg.com/growarteries.shtml
> >
> >
> >Growing New Heart Arteries
> >
> >One of the most exciting current areas of heart research involves finding
> >ways for the heart to grow a new blood supply once the coronary arteries
> >have become blocked up with plaque. This is especially important for
> >patients with blockages that cannot be helped by conventional balloon or
> >bypass procedures.
> >
> >The heart is actually very good at growing tiny little arteries we call
> >collaterals. These collaterals can act as nature's own bypasses. If one
of
> >the heart arteries is completely blocked, one of the other heart arteries
> >will grow these little blood vessels over to the plugged artery.
> >
>
> yeah we all know about collaterals.....if you had EVER seen an angiogram
up
> close..you will see that collaterals are pretty tiny...they go around the
> blocked artery...collaterals CANNOT restored necrotic heart muscles...tho
for
> some they may prolong life,,and may even reduce angina
>
> ain't got nothing to do with the immune system....
>
> the article you posted discusses gene therapy....this is
preliminary..still in
> early trials...but I for one would LOVE to see this work..
>
> eating ginseng...drinking none juice will of course do NOTHING without
the
> stem cells...
>
>
> hawki

The Harvard School of Medicine says they were growing new ARTERIES in 1998.
Were they lieing, or just didn't call to tell you?

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/1998/05.14/NewArteriesGrow.html

New Arteries Grown In Diseased Hearts
By William J. Cromie

Gazette Staff

Almost anything Hugh Curtis did gave him a pain in the heart. Even when
lying in bed, he felt the stabbing chest pains of angina, a hurtful signal
that his heart was not getting enough oxygen.

Curtis underwent a quadruple bypass in 1986, then a single bypass late last
year. Surgeons removed veins from his legs and grafted them onto his heart
to bypass his blocked coronary arteries. But that didn't solve his problem.

He also received a series of angioplasties, wherein tiny balloons were
threaded into his heart's arteries, then inflated. This process pushed the
blockages aside, opening his arteries. Five pieces of metal mesh were
installed to keep them open, but his coronary arteries closed in other
places.

"I couldn't walk very far, couldn't even make my bed," says the 55-year-old
resident of Danvers, Mass. "Climbing stairs was out, so was any thought of
going on vacation."

Late last year, he was asked by researchers at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical
Center in Boston if he wanted to volunteer for an experimental procedure at
the Harvard-affiliated hospital. The procedure involved doctors injecting
proteins called growth factors into his heart to stimulate growth of new
blood around those clogged with plaque.

"I didn't hesitate to give them the go-ahead," Curtis recalls.

The cardiologists threaded a thin hollow tube from his groin into his heart.
Through the tube they injected what is called basic fibroblast growth
factor, or bFGF.

Four months after the treatment, Curtis is back working full time at a desk
job in a printing company. "I no longer take 3-to-6 nitroglycerin tablets a
day, and I'm painting the hallway in my house," he says cheerily. "I may
never go back to playing racquetball, but I'm leading a normal life, and
that's all I'm looking for."

"All his symptoms are gone," says Michael Simons, associate professor of
medicine at Harvard Medical School. "He is one of 18 patients who
participated in a trial of bFGF. All are now largely without symptoms such
as chest pain, shortness of breath, and fatigue."
 
"Hawki63" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >Subject: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
> >From: "Dave" [email protected]
> >Date: 10/18/2003 6:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <[email protected]>
> >
> >Like everything else the self
>
> >proclaimed scientific geniuses
> >are ignorant of what goes on in the world outside of their
> >little cubicle.
>
> >We all have
> >had the ability to grow healthy new arteries (and damaged heart
> >muscle) since the beginning of time
>
> >One of the most exciting frontiers in gene therapy is in the treatment of
> >heart disease. Dr. Ronald G.
>
> read it Davey....."no we do NOT have the ability to grow new healthy
arteries
> and damaged heart muscle since the beginning of time"
>
> >Crystal's version of the
> >therapy uses an engineered adenovirus with a gene that promotes
blood-vessel
> >growth. When the virus is injected into a patient near blocked
>
> you need to read up on "gene therapy"...
>
> it is a totally new..and potentially very exciting therapy..
>
> however...> Early results are encouraging,
> >but it will be at least two years before tests are completed, Crystal
said.
>
> >The trials are being run by GenVec Inc. of Rockville, Md., with
Parke-Davis
> >Pharmaceutical Research, a division of Warner-Lambert Co.
> >
>
> "tests are encouraging"..."but it will be at least two years " "trials"
>
> so how did your twisted mine interpret this as being "knowledge since the
> beginning of time?"
>
> what a moron
>
> >If you don't want to wait for the 2 or 7 years, you can eat ginseng, eat
> >SBGA, drink NONI juice, etc., etc. Restore your immune system and your
body
> >will heal itself. That's how it
> >was "designed" to work.
> >
> >http://www.rcpg.com/growarteries.shtml
> >
> >
> >Growing New Heart Arteries
> >
> >One of the most exciting current areas of heart research involves finding
> >ways for the heart to grow a new blood supply once the coronary arteries
> >have become blocked up with plaque. This is especially important for
> >patients with blockages that cannot be helped by conventional balloon or
> >bypass procedures.
> >
> >The heart is actually very good at growing tiny little arteries we call
> >collaterals. These collaterals can act as nature's own bypasses. If one
of
> >the heart arteries is completely blocked, one of the other heart arteries
> >will grow these little blood vessels over to the plugged artery.
> >
>
> yeah we all know about collaterals.....if you had EVER seen an angiogram
up
> close..you will see that collaterals are pretty tiny...they go around the
> blocked artery...collaterals CANNOT restored necrotic heart muscles...tho
for
> some they may prolong life,,and may even reduce angina
>
> ain't got nothing to do with the immune system....
>
> the article you posted discusses gene therapy....this is
preliminary..still in
> early trials...but I for one would LOVE to see this work..
>
> eating ginseng...drinking none juice will of course do NOTHING without
the
> stem cells...
>
>
> hawki

So, obviously you are endorsing ginseng and NONI juice that you believe work
in
the presence of stem cells. That is the closest you have come to a lucid
statement.
 
>Subject: Re: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
>From: "Rich Shewmaker" [email protected]
>Date: 10/18/2003 9:05 AM Mountain Daylight Time
>Message-id: <[email protected]>

>The human body "works" just fine on a balanced, supplement free
>diet.


Since Linus Pauling advocated vitamin C for everyone and since the AMA has now
begun to recommend one a day supplements .. the article below means nothing to
... you ..


<<snip>>
"A really big issue is going to be whether we can encourage the heart to fix
itself, or whether we will need to implant cells of some sort," Lee says. "That
is an important and unresolved question for this century, given the prevalence
of heart failure."
<<snip>>

Source: American Heart Association
Date:
2003-04-01

Vitamin C Transforms Mouse Stem Cells Into Heart Muscle Cells
DALLAS, April 1 – Vitamin C helped convert mouse embryonic stem cells growing
in the laboratory to heart muscle cells, researchers report today's rapid track
publication of Circulation: Journal of the American Heart Association.

Rapid track articles are released online early because they have major clinical
impact or represent important basic science discoveries. This basic-research
discovery could lead to future research on ways to treat people suffering from
damaged heart muscle.

"Although the findings of this study are very preliminary with respect to their
impact on human lives, this line of research has enormous implications for the
future care of thousands of patients who develop heart failure each year," says
Robert O. Bonow, M.D., president of the American Heart Association.
"Identifying mechanisms to transform stem cells into differentiated heart
muscle cells is an important step toward clinical reality."

Richard T. Lee, M.D., senior author of the study, says: "We have been taught
for decades that when your heart cells are dead, they are dead and there is
nothing we can do about it. We are excited about anything suggesting that we
can grow more heart cells."

Lee and his colleagues tested 880 bioactive substances – including drugs and
vitamins – approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to see if
they stimulated the mouse stem cells to become heart muscle cells. The cells
were genetically altered to give off a fluorescent bright green color when
viewed under a microscrope if they had become heart muscle cells.

"We only got 1 out of the 880 to light up, and that was from ascorbic acid, the
chemical commonly known as vitamin C," says Lee, an associate professor of
medicine at Harvard Medical School and Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston,
and a lecturer in biological engineering at the Massachusetts Institute of
Technology in Cambridge, Mass.

He stresses, however, that the finding is preliminary and it should not
encourage people to take vitamin C hoping to strengthen or protect their
hearts. "There is no clinical evidence that it would help," he says. The
ability to grow or implant new heart muscle could save or improve the quality
of life of countless people suffering from heart failure – the inability of a
weakened heart to pump enough blood to supply the body. About 550,000 new cases
and more than 51,500 heart-failure deaths occur each year in the United States
as the result of a damaging heart attack, genetic disease, or other causes.

Embryonic stem cells are derived from the very early stages of fetal
development and can become any type of cell in the body through a process
called differentiation. Efforts to stimulate the differentiation of stem cells
to specific types of cells have drawn growing research attention in recent
years.

Working with a well-established line of mouse embryonic cells grown by first
author Tomosaburo Takahashi, M.D., Ph.D., they placed about 2,000 stem cells
each in tiny "wells" and treated each well with a different one of the
FDA-approved compounds.

The stem cells had a gene inserted that would fluoresce bright green if the
cell converted into the heart-muscle cell.

Beyond finding the green glow of the vitamin C-treated cells, the researchers
detected several other important pieces of evidence that the stem cells had
converted to heart muscle.

For example, they found that both cardiac myosin and actin (proteins involved
in relaxing and contracting muscle) were present in the cells. They also
detected three other heart-muscle genes that activated in proper sequence. The
differentiated cells also beat spontaneously and rhythmically.

Vitamin C's beneficial activity has been attributed to its ability to
neutralize oxidants, which are damaging substances produced naturally by the
body. However, other antioxidant compounds tested, including vitamin E, did not
trigger the development of heart cells.

"This suggests that the effect of vitamin C on cardiac differentiation is
independent of its antioxidant effect," Lee says.

He and his colleagues repeated their experiment many times, always with the
same results. "The real significance of the study is that it indicates that we
will be able to find other ways to generate heart cells from stem cells more
efficiently," Lee says. "It also raises interesting questions about the role of
vitamin C in the development of the embryo's heart."

The team is investigating other so-called "chemical libraries" that contain far
larger numbers of compounds than the group initially tested.

"A really big issue is going to be whether we can encourage the heart to fix
itself, or whether we will need to implant cells of some sort," Lee says. "That
is an important and unresolved question for this century, given the prevalence
of heart failure."


Co-authors are P. Christian Schulze, M.D.; Bernadette Lord, B.S.; Ryan M.
Fryer, Ph.D.; Satinder S. Sarang, Ph.D.; and Steven R. Gullans, Ph.D.

This research was partly funded by the National Heart, Lung, and Blood
Institute.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

This story has been adapted from a news release issued by American Heart
Association.


Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking
 
>Subject: Re: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
>From: [email protected]oe (doe)
>Date: 10/18/2003 11:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <[email protected]>
>
>>Subject: Re: Zzz The Ignorance

actually Tom...I truly believe stem cell research can and hopefully will
revolutionize the treatment of so many disorders...

so far they have been successful in certain bone marrow transplants...etc

preliminary to be sure,,,but promising nonetheless


hawki
 
"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]...

> When you have nothing intelligent to say you say nothing intelligent.
> Intentinally suppressng the immune system should be against the law. It is
> part of
> the maiming that you say you don't do. Then say you do. Then say you
don't.
> That aside, the growth of

Chuckle. if you do not suppress the immune system, then the body will reject
transplanted organs. I know you are against transplantation as that is
competition for your ****.

> > > Medical science hasn't
> > > discovered that yet and wonders why we don't blindly trust their
> > > expertise.
> > >
> >
> > The knowledge of collateral circulation dates back more than a century.
> >
> >
> > > If you do a Google search on growing arteries you will find
> > > volumes of information, apparently unknown to the medical
> > > "pretenders" in this ....place.
> >
> > The medical professionals here know a lot more than you about collateral
> > circulation without needing to Google the subject.
>
> There are no medical professionals here, only medical "pretenders".

Little you know.

> The evidence that what you say is incorrect is too obvious to require
> running
> about looking for information.

IOW, I blathered and cannot back it up.

> I have never seen you post a single piece of useful or helpful
information.
> Your
> "job" is to mindlessly criticize and disparage things that you have no
> knowledge
> of. Post something helpful to us and we'll evaluate it for you from the
> consumers
> point of view.

Wrong. While it does not take great mental effort to criticize your
blather, it is surely not mindless. However, at the rate you are going, even
a mindless person will see through your sales pitch.

> Your above comment that the iommune system doesn't do much and doesn't run
> down is so ludicrus that, if that isn't a shilling ploy, then explain in
> just why the
> immune sysrtem exists.

Go back to school and learn it. Also note that no one said that the immune
system does not do much.
 
"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Hawki63" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > >Subject: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
> > >From: "Dave" [email protected]
> > >Date: 10/18/2003 6:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time
> > >Message-id: <[email protected]>
> > >
> > >Like everything else the self
> >
> > >proclaimed scientific geniuses
> > >are ignorant of what goes on in the world outside of their
> > >little cubicle.
> >
> > >We all have
> > >had the ability to grow healthy new arteries (and damaged heart
> > >muscle) since the beginning of time
> >
> > >One of the most exciting frontiers in gene therapy is in the treatment
of
> > >heart disease. Dr. Ronald G.
> >
> > read it Davey....."no we do NOT have the ability to grow new healthy
> arteries
> > and damaged heart muscle since the beginning of time"
> >
> > >Crystal's version of the
> > >therapy uses an engineered adenovirus with a gene that promotes
> blood-vessel
> > >growth. When the virus is injected into a patient near blocked
> >
> > you need to read up on "gene therapy"...
> >
> > it is a totally new..and potentially very exciting therapy..
> >
> > however...> Early results are encouraging,
> > >but it will be at least two years before tests are completed, Crystal
> said.
> >
> > >The trials are being run by GenVec Inc. of Rockville, Md., with
> Parke-Davis
> > >Pharmaceutical Research, a division of Warner-Lambert Co.
> > >
> >
> > "tests are encouraging"..."but it will be at least two years " "trials"
> >
> > so how did your twisted mine interpret this as being "knowledge since
the
> > beginning of time?"
> >
> > what a moron
> >
> > >If you don't want to wait for the 2 or 7 years, you can eat ginseng,
eat
> > >SBGA, drink NONI juice, etc., etc. Restore your immune system and your
> body
> > >will heal itself. That's how it
> > >was "designed" to work.
> > >
> > >http://www.rcpg.com/growarteries.shtml
> > >
> > >
> > >Growing New Heart Arteries
> > >
> > >One of the most exciting current areas of heart research involves
finding
> > >ways for the heart to grow a new blood supply once the coronary
arteries
> > >have become blocked up with plaque. This is especially important for
> > >patients with blockages that cannot be helped by conventional balloon
or
> > >bypass procedures.
> > >
> > >The heart is actually very good at growing tiny little arteries we call
> > >collaterals. These collaterals can act as nature's own bypasses. If one
> of
> > >the heart arteries is completely blocked, one of the other heart
arteries
> > >will grow these little blood vessels over to the plugged artery.
> > >
> >
> > yeah we all know about collaterals.....if you had EVER seen an angiogram
> up
> > close..you will see that collaterals are pretty tiny...they go around
the
> > blocked artery...collaterals CANNOT restored necrotic heart
muscles...tho
> for
> > some they may prolong life,,and may even reduce angina
> >
> > ain't got nothing to do with the immune system....
> >
> > the article you posted discusses gene therapy....this is
> preliminary..still in
> > early trials...but I for one would LOVE to see this work..
> >
> > eating ginseng...drinking none juice will of course do NOTHING without
> the
> > stem cells...
> >
> >
> > hawki
>
> The Harvard School of Medicine says they were growing new ARTERIES in
1998.
> Were they lieing, or just didn't call to tell you?

Did time begin in 1998? I know some people do not remember the 1960's, but
they were stoned for most o fthem. What is your excuse? Or is it a side
effect of ginseng?

>
> http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/1998/05.14/NewArteriesGrow.html
>
> New Arteries Grown In Diseased Hearts
> By William J. Cromie
>
> Gazette Staff
>
> Almost anything Hugh Curtis did gave him a pain in the heart. Even when
> lying in bed, he felt the stabbing chest pains of angina, a hurtful signal
> that his heart was not getting enough oxygen.
>
> Curtis underwent a quadruple bypass in 1986, then a single bypass late
last
> year. Surgeons removed veins from his legs and grafted them onto his heart
> to bypass his blocked coronary arteries. But that didn't solve his
problem.
>
> He also received a series of angioplasties, wherein tiny balloons were
> threaded into his heart's arteries, then inflated. This process pushed the
> blockages aside, opening his arteries. Five pieces of metal mesh were
> installed to keep them open, but his coronary arteries closed in other
> places.
>
> "I couldn't walk very far, couldn't even make my bed," says the
55-year-old
> resident of Danvers, Mass. "Climbing stairs was out, so was any thought of
> going on vacation."
>
> Late last year, he was asked by researchers at Beth Israel Deaconess
Medical
> Center in Boston if he wanted to volunteer for an experimental procedure
at
> the Harvard-affiliated hospital. The procedure involved doctors injecting
> proteins called growth factors into his heart to stimulate growth of new
> blood around those clogged with plaque.
>
> "I didn't hesitate to give them the go-ahead," Curtis recalls.
>
> The cardiologists threaded a thin hollow tube from his groin into his
heart.
> Through the tube they injected what is called basic fibroblast growth
> factor, or bFGF.
>
> Four months after the treatment, Curtis is back working full time at a
desk
> job in a printing company. "I no longer take 3-to-6 nitroglycerin tablets
a
> day, and I'm painting the hallway in my house," he says cheerily. "I may
> never go back to playing racquetball, but I'm leading a normal life, and
> that's all I'm looking for."
>
> "All his symptoms are gone," says Michael Simons, associate professor of
> medicine at Harvard Medical School. "He is one of 18 patients who
> participated in a trial of bFGF. All are now largely without symptoms such
> as chest pain, shortness of breath, and fatigue."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
 
>Subject: Re: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
>From: "Dave" [email protected]
>Date: 10/18/2003 11:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <[email protected]>
>

>> eating ginseng...drinking none juice will of course do NOTHING without

>he
>> stem ce

>ginseng and NONI juice that you believe work
>in
>the presence of stem cells. That is the closest you have come to a lucid
>statement.

well...since the article you posted concerns stem cell "research"....2 years
before TESTS are completed...then it goes to clinical trials..

so...no..I surely was not implying that ginseng WOULD help in the presence of
stem cells....CUZ it would be the STEM cells and NOT the ginseng that would do
the work

yikes...can't you extrapolate...let alone read??


hawki
 
>>Subject: Re: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
>>From: "Dave" [email protected]
>>Date: 10/18/2003 11:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>>Message-id: <[email protected]>
>>
>
>>> eating ginseng...drinking none juice will of course do NOTHING without
>
>>he
>>> stem ce
>
>>ginseng and NONI juice that you believe work
>>in
>>the presence of stem cells. That is the closest you have come to a lucid
>>statement.
>
>well...since the article you posted concerns stem cell "research"....2 years
>before TESTS are completed...then it goes to clinical trials..
>
>so...no..I surely was not implying that ginseng WOULD help in the presence of
>stem cells....CUZ it would be the STEM cells and NOT the ginseng that would
>do
>the work
>
>yikes...can't you extrapolate...let alone read??

Spamming Dave is quite the premature extrapolater, if you catch my drift.


>
>
>hawki
 
>Subject: Re: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
>From: "Dave" [email protected]
>Date: 10/18/2003 11:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <[email protected]>

>says they were growing new ARTERIES in 1998.
>Were they lieing, or just didn't call to tell you?
>

hmmm...your article documents that this was a trial of only 18 patients!!!

hmmmm been 5 years since them...wonder why this is NOT the main treatment for
"clogged artieries"???? wouldn't it be nice..

perhaps besides the 18 in THIS study there were thousands of others all over
the world...perhaps they didn't do well...perhaps there were side effects??

evidence based medicine....conventional test as much as they can..also
eliminate procedures,,drugs that have more of a risk than a benefit..


hawki
 
"Markasurus Probertasaurus" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:_Sgkb.63093$%[email protected]...
>
> "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:p[email protected]...
>
> > When you have nothing intelligent to say you say nothing intelligent.
> > Intentinally suppressng the immune system should be against the law. It
is
> > part of
> > the maiming that you say you don't do. Then say you do. Then say you
> don't.
> > That aside, the growth of
>
> Chuckle. if you do not suppress the immune system, then the body will
reject
> transplanted organs. I know you are against transplantation as that is
> competition for your ****.
>
> > > > Medical science hasn't
> > > > discovered that yet and wonders why we don't blindly trust their
> > > > expertise.
> > > >
> > >
> > > The knowledge of collateral circulation dates back more than a
century.
> > >
> > >
> > > > If you do a Google search on growing arteries you will find
> > > > volumes of information, apparently unknown to the medical
> > > > "pretenders" in this ....place.
> > >
> > > The medical professionals here know a lot more than you about
collateral
> > > circulation without needing to Google the subject.
> >
> > There are no medical professionals here, only medical "pretenders".
>
> Little you know.
>
> > The evidence that what you say is incorrect is too obvious to require
> > running
> > about looking for information.
>
> IOW, I blathered and cannot back it up.
>
> > I have never seen you post a single piece of useful or helpful
> information.
> > Your
> > "job" is to mindlessly criticize and disparage things that you have no
> > knowledge
> > of. Post something helpful to us and we'll evaluate it for you from the
> > consumers
> > point of view.
>
> Wrong. While it does not take great mental effort to criticize your
> blather, it is surely not mindless. However, at the rate you are going,
even
> a mindless person will see through your sales pitch.
>
> > Your above comment that the iommune system doesn't do much and doesn't
run
> > down is so ludicrus that, if that isn't a shilling ploy, then explain in
> > just why the
> > immune sysrtem exists.
>
> Go back to school and learn it. Also note that no one said that the immune
> system does not do much.

Just as we all thought, there is no backup for lies, fabrications and BS.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>Like everything else the self proclaimed scientific geniuses
>are ignorant of what goes on in the world outside of their
>little cubicle.
>
>This article about a breakthrough by medical science was
>superceded by the creation of our immune system whenever
>and however you happen to believe that occurred. We all have
>had the ability to grow healthy new arteries (and damaged heart
>muscle) since the beginning of time. Medical science hasn't
>discovered that yet and wonders why we don't blindly trust their
>expertise.

And you wonder why we don't trust you. The heart can develop
new collateral circulation, but the article you posted is
something else entirely. It wouldn't happen "naturally." I
don't expect you to understand this, as you have already shown
a propensity for reposting articles you don't understand.

The immune system has nothing to do with developing new
collateral circulation. You say "the immune system" as if it
were this magic thing that runs everything in the body. It
isn't. But learning what it really is and what it really
does would be work, and if you understood it, it would interfere
with your lying when you try to sell your ginseng.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)
 
"Markasurus Probertasaurus" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:%Ugkb.63143$%[email protected]...
>
> "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Hawki63" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > >Subject: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
> > > >From: "Dave" [email protected]
> > > >Date: 10/18/2003 6:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time
> > > >Message-id: <[email protected]>
> > > >
> > > >Like everything else the self
> > >
> > > >proclaimed scientific geniuses
> > > >are ignorant of what goes on in the world outside of their
> > > >little cubicle.
> > >
> > > >We all have
> > > >had the ability to grow healthy new arteries (and damaged heart
> > > >muscle) since the beginning of time
> > >
> > > >One of the most exciting frontiers in gene therapy is in the
treatment
> of
> > > >heart disease. Dr. Ronald G.
> > >
> > > read it Davey....."no we do NOT have the ability to grow new healthy
> > arteries
> > > and damaged heart muscle since the beginning of time"
> > >
> > > >Crystal's version of the
> > > >therapy uses an engineered adenovirus with a gene that promotes
> > blood-vessel
> > > >growth. When the virus is injected into a patient near blocked
> > >
> > > you need to read up on "gene therapy"...
> > >
> > > it is a totally new..and potentially very exciting therapy..
> > >
> > > however...> Early results are encouraging,
> > > >but it will be at least two years before tests are completed, Crystal
> > said.
> > >
> > > >The trials are being run by GenVec Inc. of Rockville, Md., with
> > Parke-Davis
> > > >Pharmaceutical Research, a division of Warner-Lambert Co.
> > > >
> > >
> > > "tests are encouraging"..."but it will be at least two years "
"trials"
> > >
> > > so how did your twisted mine interpret this as being "knowledge since
> the
> > > beginning of time?"
> > >
> > > what a moron
> > >
> > > >If you don't want to wait for the 2 or 7 years, you can eat ginseng,
> eat
> > > >SBGA, drink NONI juice, etc., etc. Restore your immune system and
your
> > body
> > > >will heal itself. That's how it
> > > >was "designed" to work.
> > > >
> > > >http://www.rcpg.com/growarteries.shtml
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Growing New Heart Arteries
> > > >
> > > >One of the most exciting current areas of heart research involves
> finding
> > > >ways for the heart to grow a new blood supply once the coronary
> arteries
> > > >have become blocked up with plaque. This is especially important for
> > > >patients with blockages that cannot be helped by conventional balloon
> or
> > > >bypass procedures.
> > > >
> > > >The heart is actually very good at growing tiny little arteries we
call
> > > >collaterals. These collaterals can act as nature's own bypasses. If
one
> > of
> > > >the heart arteries is completely blocked, one of the other heart
> arteries
> > > >will grow these little blood vessels over to the plugged artery.
> > > >
> > >
> > > yeah we all know about collaterals.....if you had EVER seen an
angiogram
> > up
> > > close..you will see that collaterals are pretty tiny...they go around
> the
> > > blocked artery...collaterals CANNOT restored necrotic heart
> muscles...tho
> > for
> > > some they may prolong life,,and may even reduce angina
> > >
> > > ain't got nothing to do with the immune system....
> > >
> > > the article you posted discusses gene therapy....this is
> > preliminary..still in
> > > early trials...but I for one would LOVE to see this work..
> > >
> > > eating ginseng...drinking none juice will of course do NOTHING
without
> > the
> > > stem cells...
> > >
> > >
> > > hawki
> >
> > The Harvard School of Medicine says they were growing new ARTERIES in
> 1998.
> > Were they lieing, or just didn't call to tell you?
>
> Did time begin in 1998? I know some people do not remember the 1960's, but
> they were stoned for most o fthem. What is your excuse? Or is it a side
> effect of ginseng?

You have been shown to be a silly know nothing once again, who pretends to
know it all. You are without any credibility and are a danger to those
around you.

>
> >
> > http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/1998/05.14/NewArteriesGrow.html
> >
> > New Arteries Grown In Diseased Hearts
> > By William J. Cromie
> >
> > Gazette Staff
> >
> > Almost anything Hugh Curtis did gave him a pain in the heart. Even when
> > lying in bed, he felt the stabbing chest pains of angina, a hurtful
signal
> > that his heart was not getting enough oxygen.
> >
> > Curtis underwent a quadruple bypass in 1986, then a single bypass late
> last
> > year. Surgeons removed veins from his legs and grafted them onto his
heart
> > to bypass his blocked coronary arteries. But that didn't solve his
> problem.
> >
> > He also received a series of angioplasties, wherein tiny balloons were
> > threaded into his heart's arteries, then inflated. This process pushed
the
> > blockages aside, opening his arteries. Five pieces of metal mesh were
> > installed to keep them open, but his coronary arteries closed in other
> > places.
> >
> > "I couldn't walk very far, couldn't even make my bed," says the
> 55-year-old
> > resident of Danvers, Mass. "Climbing stairs was out, so was any thought
of
> > going on vacation."
> >
> > Late last year, he was asked by researchers at Beth Israel Deaconess
> Medical
> > Center in Boston if he wanted to volunteer for an experimental procedure
> at
> > the Harvard-affiliated hospital. The procedure involved doctors
injecting
> > proteins called growth factors into his heart to stimulate growth of new
> > blood around those clogged with plaque.
> >
> > "I didn't hesitate to give them the go-ahead," Curtis recalls.
> >
> > The cardiologists threaded a thin hollow tube from his groin into his
> heart.
> > Through the tube they injected what is called basic fibroblast growth
> > factor, or bFGF.
> >
> > Four months after the treatment, Curtis is back working full time at a
> desk
> > job in a printing company. "I no longer take 3-to-6 nitroglycerin
tablets
> a
> > day, and I'm painting the hallway in my house," he says cheerily. "I may
> > never go back to playing racquetball, but I'm leading a normal life, and
> > that's all I'm looking for."
> >
> > "All his symptoms are gone," says Michael Simons, associate professor of
> > medicine at Harvard Medical School. "He is one of 18 patients who
> > participated in a trial of bFGF. All are now largely without symptoms
such
> > as chest pain, shortness of breath, and fatigue."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
 
>In article <[email protected]>,
>Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Like everything else the self proclaimed scientific geniuses
>>are ignorant of what goes on in the world outside of their
>>little cubicle.
>>
>>This article about a breakthrough by medical science was
>>superceded by the creation of our immune system whenever
>>and however you happen to believe that occurred. We all have
>>had the ability to grow healthy new arteries (and damaged heart
>>muscle) since the beginning of time. Medical science hasn't
>>discovered that yet and wonders why we don't blindly trust their
>>expertise.
>
>And you wonder why we don't trust you. The heart can develop
>new collateral circulation, but the article you posted is
>something else entirely. It wouldn't happen "naturally." I
>don't expect you to understand this, as you have already shown
>a propensity for reposting articles you don't understand.
>
>The immune system has nothing to do with developing new
>collateral circulation. You say "the immune system" as if it
>were this magic thing that runs everything in the body. It
>isn't. But learning what it really is and what it really
>does would be work, and if you understood it, it would interfere
>with your lying when you try to sell your ginseng.
>
> -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net

Eric made a very insightful comment recently about this. It seems as if the
term "immune system" has now replaced "vital force" in the parlance of alt-med.
 
"Hawki63" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >Subject: Re: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
> >From: "Dave" [email protected]
> >Date: 10/18/2003 11:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <[email protected]>
>
> >says they were growing new ARTERIES in 1998.
> >Were they lieing, or just didn't call to tell you?
> >
>
> hmmm...your article documents that this was a trial of only 18 patients!!!
>
> hmmmm been 5 years since them...wonder why this is NOT the main treatment
for
> "clogged artieries"???? wouldn't it be nice..
>
> perhaps besides the 18 in THIS study there were thousands of others all
over
> the world...perhaps they didn't do well...perhaps there were side
effects??
>
> evidence based medicine....conventional test as much as they can..also
> eliminate procedures,,drugs that have more of a risk than a benefit..
>
>
> hawki

Actually the fact that simply taking good quality supplements including
juicing does a way better job of restoring damaged tissue and growing
new arteries while eliminating the opportunity to be maimed or die, killed
the market for this unnecessary procedure.
 
>Subject: Re: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
>From: "Dave" [email protected]
>Date: 10/18/2003 2:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <[email protected]>
>

>Actually the fact that simply taking good quality supplements including
>juicing does a way better job of restoring damaged tissue and growing
>new arteries while eliminating

and where did you make up this statement from??

evidence...cites???? or just MLM 101
hawki
 
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