Best Tour de France Riders ever?

[Cyclisme]

Hello, over the summer i have chosen to write a report on the greatest cyclists to ride the Tour de France. I want to make sure i choose the best cyclists.

I came across the article below, are these generally considered the best?

http://www.infobarrel.com/The_Greatest_Tour_De_France_Winners

Thanks

 

[Cyclisme]

Anyone?

 

[jhuskey]

I has been debated here before. Lance Armstrong because of his number of wins. Eddie Mercks because he won big races in the same year which seems impossible to do now.

 

[Chavez]

There's a select few and that article covers them all - Anquetil, Merckx, Hinault, Indurain, and Armstrong.


I'd probably put Coppi (arguably 2nd greatest cyclist ever behind Merckx), Contador (6 GTs is rare air), and Poulidor (the eternal 2nd) on there as well.

 

[Archbob]

Overall Armstrong because of his 7 wins if we are just talking about the tour.

But overall cycling I'd say Mercks.

 

[limerickman]

Merckx gets my vote : most stages wins in the TDF, 5 TDF wins.
But in winning the TDF, Merckx won his titles along with winning multiple races in each season between 1968-1977.
He also won several classement TDF jerseys along with winning the yellow jersey.

He was the best TDF rider and the best rider of all time in my opinion.

http://www.cyclinghalloffame.com/

 

[swampy1970]

Hinault.

5 Tour wins, quit once whilst leading with tendonitis and finish second a couple of times... But that's not the whole story - the sheer tenacity of the guy and his will to win. When was the last time you saw a Tour winner take the sprint on the Champs Elysees or have the power and the balls to break away and take the win in Paris?

Odd Hinault fact - he was one of the few riders to win the Tour at his first attempt yet didn't win the White Jersey, which was awarded to Henk Lubberdink of the Ti Raleigh Team. That, and the Sprint Jersey, was the only Tour Jersey's that he didn't win overall - having netted a few Yellow, Mountains, Points and Combination jerseys over the years. This was back when the sprint and points jerseys were two seperate competitions.

The last of the true "Patrons" and he could be summed up in one simple quote "As long as I breathe, I attack."

 

[oldbobcat]

For a good report, it's probably not as important to get the right answer but to intelligently and entertainingly discuss the factors and nuances that would lead to an informative point of view.

 

[limerickman]

Originally Posted by oldbobcat .

For a good report, it's probably not as important to get the right answer but to intelligently and entertainingly discuss the factors and nuances that would lead to an informative point of view.

Yep.
There are several valid claimants to the title of best TDF rider ever.
Hinault, Merckx, Armstrong, Indurain, Jacques Anquetil all have valid claims. But riders like Bobet, Coppi and even riders like Zabel while not as compelling as the Big 5 make lesser claims.

 

[Froze]

Overall best rider in the sport was Merckx, the best TDF rider was Armstrong but he wasn't the best in the sport and if it wasn't for the Postal team being so good he wouldn't have won those! In fact I wouldn't even rate Armstrong in the top 8 best riders in the sport because he never won any of the big European races except for the 01 Tour de Suisse, but he did manage a World cycling Championship in 93 but that's all, lost in the China Olympics like he didn't even care. I don't why he never bothered with the other races but since he didn't I can't rank him high. I'm sure that will ******** some of you for ranking your god lower then 8th in the sport overall.

 

[limerickman]

Originally Posted by Froze .

Overall best rider in the sport was Merckx, the best TDF rider was Armstrong but he wasn't the best in the sport and if it wasn't for the Postal team being so good he wouldn't have won those! In fact I wouldn't even rate Armstrong in the top 8 best riders in the sport because he never won any of the big European races except for the 01 Tour de Suisse, but he did manage a World cycling Championship in 93 but that's all, lost in the China Olympics like he didn't even care. I don't why he never bothered with the other races but since he didn't I can't rank him high. I'm sure that will ******** some of you for ranking your god lower then 8th in the sport overall.

Merckx, Hinault etc were winning multiple T'sDF - while at the same time winning numerous GT's and other races.

Imagine what Merckx;s record would be if he had access to Armstrongs dope?????

 

[Froze]

Originally Posted by limerickman .




Merckx, Hinault etc were winning multiple T'sDF - while at the same time winning numerous GT's and other races.

Imagine what Merckx;s record would be if he had access to Armstrongs dope?????

Personally I think I was being over generous by giving Lance 9th place!! Like I said before, if his Postal team had been just an average team Lance would probably had not won any TDF's...maybe 1.

 

[limerickman]

Originally Posted by Froze .


Personally I think I was being over generous by giving Lance 9th place!! Like I said before, if his Postal team had been just an average team Lance would probably had not won any TDF's...maybe 1.

All of the successful TDF riders had very strong teams. Think of Anquetil buying up all the available talent for his St Raphael team, Merckx lieutenants were all top class riders, Hinault and LeMond riding for the same team. Armstrong's team had plenty of strong riders in themselves, particularly when it came to recruiting very strong climbers.

 

[swampy1970]

Originally Posted by limerickman .




Merckx, Hinault etc were winning multiple T'sDF - while at the same time winning numerous GT's and other races.

Imagine what Merckx;s record would be if he had access to Armstrongs dope?????

I see you're still quite the master baiter. Would that be one question mark for each of his questionable Tour victories given that his first doping offense was prior to his first Tour win and his final offense following his last? A nice way to bookend a career, no?

Given that Merckx was busted a few times for doping infractions that given modern "dope" and modern doping penalties he never would have won 5 Tours, instead being canned from the sport for good. Back then riders were just given a slap on the wrist and thrown out the race.

I don't doubt that if blood doping techniques were readily available during his career he would have used them.

Of course one could apply that logic to most of the "great champions" of the past that people remember with great fondness before going on to critisize the current crop of riders that have, or have been suspected, of taking other PED's.

 

[limerickman]

Originally Posted by swampy1970 .




I see you're still quite the master baiter. Would that be one question mark for each of his questionable Tour victories given that his first doping offense was prior to his first Tour win and his final offense following his last? A nice way to bookend a career, no?

Given that Merckx was busted a few times for doping infractions that given modern "dope" and modern doping penalties he never would have won 5 Tours, instead being canned from the sport for good. Back then riders were just given a slap on the wrist and thrown out the race.

I don't doubt that if blood doping techniques were readily available during his career he would have used them.

Of course one could apply that logic to most of the "great champions" of the past that people remember with great fondness before going on to critisize the current crop of riders that have, or have been suspected, of taking other PED's.

What an odd reply.

Anyway, the sports performing enchancing capabilities of say EPO compared to say Amphetamines was what I was getting at which you seem to have "missed"/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif

 

[Froze]

Originally Posted by limerickman .




All of the successful TDF riders had very strong teams. Think of Anquetil buying up all the available talent for his St Raphael team, Merckx lieutenants were all top class riders, Hinault and LeMond riding for the same team. Armstrong's team had plenty of strong riders in themselves, particularly when it came to recruiting very strong climbers.

This is very true. But I have feeling, though I admit it could be entirely wrong and there will be never anyway to prove it anyway, but if Merckx had an average TDF team I think he would have pulled off at least one TDF just on pure determination...after all he wasn't called the Cannibal for nothing.

 

[jhuskey]

For me it is impossible to make a good argument because each year is different and the circumstances change. The competition changes and over the year the route has changed , the training and the equipment.
Early competitors didn't have the luxury of team mechanics and extra bikes. They didn't have team doctors, special food and a massage every night.
They also raced more miles day after day. In ways modern riders are spoiled.

 

[jpr95]

You raise some good points, jhuskey--there is definitely much more rider support on and off the course during the race in modern times. However, I think that there is also much better training prior to the race--much more advanced techniques, science and diets go into the training to produce riders that, IMHO, are much more capable than riders of the past. That's not to denigrate riders from years ago, nor their accomplishments.

That said, to answer the original question, I think hands down the best TdF rider is Armstrong. Until someone puts 8 on the board, he's the man on top. No question that he avoided the other big tours to save himself for the TdF, which, in my book, probably drops him several places down the list for overall best riders. I also think the question of whether or not he doped is a dead question--too many negative tests, and too much time has passed for testimonies to be accurate or believable.

 

[An old Guy]

In the end you race only the guys who show up. And you don't need to beat the ghosts of the guys from the past. Every tour winner is as good as any other. The same could be said about many who never saw the podium

 

[sappie66]

Originally Posted by limerickman .

What an odd reply.

Anyway, the sports performing enchancing capabilities of say EPO compared to say Amphetamines was what I was getting at which you seem to have "missed"/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Yup! With you all the way on that one! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/icon14.gif