who is the biggest war criminal?

[Hypnospin]

quantify this any way you want,
1. who spent (spends) the most,
2. number dead,
3. percentage of gross national product spent for war,
4. deceptive justification for war,
5. intentionaly misleading the population for the gain of private industry,
6. use of weapons of mass destruction,
7. killing of civilians,
8. collusion in war plan,
9. racketeering and gangster violations,
10. nuclear development programs, revival of facist rule,
10. lack of democracy,
11. bombing hospitals and schools,
12. occupying invaded nations for corporate gain,
12. preferential treatment to those who would betray and endanger their own, 13. condoning religious justification for killing,
14. disregard for human rights,
15. lack of justice in responsibilty for prison abuses,
16. not obeying geneva convetion,
16. ignoring international law,
17. ignoring un rulings, support for nations involved in ongoing human rights violations,
18. removing democraticaly elected goverments by force,
19. installing corporate interests by force,
20. war alliances with supportive regimes,
21. use of cluster bombs,
22. use of air/fuel bombs,
23. use of radioactive bombs with depleted uranium,
24. targeting civilian population,
25. profiting from weapon sales,
26. support of nations with nuclear arsenals,
27. threatening nations not in alliance with the above,
28. invading nations not in alliance with the above
29. support of genocide
30. development and support of a commercial state media that censors and prohibits political debate that would oppose the ruling parties.
we could go on...

 

[ryan_velo.]

I voted "geo w. bush" only b/c it seems to bear some resemblance to George W. Bush. You seem to have committed a few typo's have you not Since most of your list applies to good O’ Dubya I think he’d gosh damn near be the biggest war criminal As opposed to those other guys, those names sound like a bunch of gibberish to me though

 

[Conniebiker]

How can you possibly insinuate that our president is a War Criminal?
He has made the most oppressed middle eastern country into a liveable country, dethroned the idiot mastermind's puppet.
A date for removal of troops is not something that is productive in this situation. All that will do is cause the insurgents to pause and save up for a coup when we leave. Ask any troops that are presently stationed over there and they will say it is no more dangerous than living in Washington DC or Philadelphia.
War criminals are the ones that eliminate groups of people for twisted and inhumane reasons. ******, Pol Pot, etc, those are war criminals. They kill in cold blood for the purpose of serving nobody but themeselves. Bin Laden is a war criminal. What purpose did flying 2 airliners into inhabbited large buildings serve? Nothing humane or in any way useful.
What purpose did ****** eliminating millons of Jews with great efficiency serve? Nothing more than a deluded vendetta.
What purpose did Pol Pot have in eliminating all the educated and adults from the populous of Cambodia? That country is still recovering from 3rd world status, and by the way it was Vietnam that dethroned him because america turned thier eyes on the ******-esque viloence.
Those are war criminals, not the people who remove them.

 

[jaguar75]

How can you possibly insinuate that our president is a War Criminal?
He has made the most oppressed middle eastern country into a liveable country, dethroned the idiot mastermind's puppet.
A date for removal of troops is not something that is productive in this situation. All that will do is cause the insurgents to pause and save up for a coup when we leave. Ask any troops that are presently stationed over there and they will say it is no more dangerous than living in Washington DC or Philadelphia.
War criminals are the ones that eliminate groups of people for twisted and inhumane reasons. ******, Pol Pot, etc, those are war criminals. They kill in cold blood for the purpose of serving nobody but themeselves. Bin Laden is a war criminal. What purpose did flying 2 airliners into inhabbited large buildings serve? Nothing humane or in any way useful.
What purpose did ****** eliminating millons of Jews with great efficiency serve? Nothing more than a deluded vendetta.
What purpose did Pol Pot have in eliminating all the educated and adults from the populous of Cambodia? That country is still recovering from 3rd world status, and by the way it was Vietnam that dethroned him because america turned thier eyes on the ******-esque viloence.
Those are war criminals, not the people who remove them.

Ohh Connie...I don't know how much time you spend in the soap box but your comments are sure to bring some heat from the likes of David, Boong, Lim, and Crappera (as Zap says). Even though these folks are more or less left wing in their opinions, I agree with you...slightly...You are correct about the lucidity of comparing GWB to a war criminal, however, I believe that he has done more to hinder/hurt the US economically than he has to help...I am a right winger but I also use my brain and will not always vote party and it really pisses me off when people do stupid **** like make rash statements to propagate their cause.

 

[adapa]

How can you possibly insinuate that our president is a War Criminal?
He has made the most oppressed middle eastern country into a liveable country, dethroned the idiot mastermind's puppet.
<snip>

It can be successfully argued that having daily car bombings does not a 'livable country' make. Personally I'd be worried if we had daily car bombings in, say, NYC or Washington DC. Combine that with sporadic electricity & a lack of potable water and, well, I don't think I'd call it 'livable'.

Let me get this straight, you're calling Sadaam Hussein, Bin Ladens puppet?
Just because he met with the guy once or twice?
I, (unknowingly) met a child molester once or twice on a business issue, does that make me a child molester?

 

[Chance3290]

Conniebiker, You are correct with your statements. To put Bush on the same list as Sadaam is ludicrous. This man used WMD to kill tens of thousands of his own people, tortured and murdered thousands, including women and children, and thumbed his nose for years at the 'mighty' UN.
Removing him from power will bring peace to that area. It will take time, but it will happen.
From what I've seen here, most of the people that start lists like this have a "ME, ME, ME" "what's in it for me" attitude. Many will not understand your words, because they are well written.
My question is where were they when we dropping bombs on Kosovo (Operation Monica), invading Bosnia, occupying Somalia or changing the regime in Haiti?
Tens of thousands of human beings died during these brilliant military operations, yet these people never seemed to put any other president on a war criminals list. Curious, isn't it?

 

[MountainPro]

How can you possibly insinuate that our president is a War Criminal?
He has made the most oppressed middle eastern country into a liveable country,

liveable...?

ever tried living without fresh water, electricity, food, clothing?

thats what Bush has taken away from the innocents in Iraq.

 

[darkboong]

How can you possibly insinuate that our president is a War Criminal?

Wars of Aggression are War Crimes by definition.

He has made the most oppressed middle eastern country into a liveable country, dethroned the idiot mastermind's puppet.

You can't be talking about Iraq. Less electricity, less clean water, less security, higher death-rates, higher infant mortality, higher unemployment, oh and a shattered Healthcare system (with doctors fleeing the country in droves).

A date for removal of troops is not something that is productive in this situation. All that will do is cause the insurgents to pause and save up for a coup when we leave.

It is already happening with the troops there, have you missed the reports of government ministers getting assassinated ?

Ask any troops that are presently stationed over there and they will say it is no more dangerous than living in Washington DC or Philadelphia.

Rubbish.

The troops are not exactly typical citizens of Iraq are they ? They wear body armor, have medics on hand, live in heavily defended compounds and move around in armored vehicles with gunship support. How about asking the Iraqis themselves ?

War criminals are the ones that eliminate groups of people for twisted and inhumane reasons. ******, Pol Pot, etc, those are war criminals.

That would make many of Israel's celebrated soldiers and politicians war criminals. War Criminals commit war crimes, war crimes are not limited to Ethnic Cleansing (eg: Attacking a hospital is a war crime).

They kill in cold blood for the purpose of serving nobody but themeselves. Bin Laden is a war criminal. What purpose did flying 2 airliners into inhabbited large buildings serve? Nothing humane or in any way useful.

The troops who levelled Fallujah (a city of over 250,000 people) are War Criminals. They started by attacking the Hospital, let alone the rest.

Those are war criminals, not the people who remove them.

********. War crimes can be committed by anyone, and the definition is not up for unilateral redefinition in order to legitimise the torture and wars of aggression committed on GWB's watch.

 

[StartledPancake]

How can you possibly insinuate that our president is a War Criminal?
He has made the most oppressed middle eastern country into a liveable country, dethroned the idiot mastermind's puppet.
A date for removal of troops is not something that is productive in this situation. All that will do is cause the insurgents to pause and save up for a coup when we leave. Ask any troops that are presently stationed over there and they will say it is no more dangerous than living in Washington DC or Philadelphia.
War criminals are the ones that eliminate groups of people for twisted and inhumane reasons. ******, Pol Pot, etc, those are war criminals. They kill in cold blood for the purpose of serving nobody but themeselves. Bin Laden is a war criminal. What purpose did flying 2 airliners into inhabbited large buildings serve? Nothing humane or in any way useful.
What purpose did ****** eliminating millons of Jews with great efficiency serve? Nothing more than a deluded vendetta.
What purpose did Pol Pot have in eliminating all the educated and adults from the populous of Cambodia? That country is still recovering from 3rd world status, and by the way it was Vietnam that dethroned him because america turned thier eyes on the ******-esque viloence.
Those are war criminals, not the people who remove them.

The GWB deliberately destroyed the Iraq regime in order to give muslim extremeists a place to fight on US terms (something he admitted recently), considering Iraq was a soverign country and not related to any terrorists groups that places him in a very precarious position.

I suppose the answer is probably "all of the above", each of them having done things which resulted in massive loss of life in pursuit of their own politcal ideals.

 

[darkboong]

To put Bush on the same list as Sadaam is ludicrous. This man used WMD to kill tens of thousands of his own people, tortured and murdered thousands, including women and children, and thumbed his nose for years at the 'mighty' UN.

The irony... If you accept the US definition of "WMD" (which includes stuff like the Mk 77 incendiary bombs) GWB and his Administration is guilty of all of the above.

My question is where were they when we dropping bombs on Kosovo (Operation Monica), invading Bosnia, occupying Somalia or changing the regime in Haiti?

In my case...

On Bosnia : Get in there quickly, why the hell is the US putting the brakes on the Europeans ?
On Kosovo : Get in there quickly, why is the US forcing the Serbs to watch their people be exterminated in Kosovo. Then... When they did start fighting : Why the **** are they attacking Civillians in Belgrade ?
On Haiti : WTF ? You just kicked out a democractically elected dude and replaced him with a bunch of convicted Mass Murderers. I really am struggling to understand what is going on with there, missionaries are getting shot-dead by Police which is a trademark of a US backed regime. I suspect the property developers in the Dominican Republic wanted some more turf to play with.

Tens of thousands of human beings died during these brilliant military operations, yet these people never seemed to put any other president on a war criminals list. Curious, isn't it?

Two reasons :
1) The US refuses to co-operate in any War Crime investigation and has refused to comply with any relevant treaties (ie: it is a Rogue State by it's own definition).
2) I want Clinton for War Crimes anyway. FWIW I want Major and Blair in front of a Tribunal in the Hague too.

 

[StartledPancake]

.
My question is where were they when we dropping bombs on Kosovo (Operation Monica), invading Bosnia, occupying Somalia or changing the regime in Haiti?
Tens of thousands of human beings died during these brilliant military operations, yet these people never seemed to put any other president on a war criminals list. Curious, isn't it?

You shouldnt just blindly compare different conflicts and situations.

The mission in Kosovo was to stabilise the Balkan region (well Serbian aggression anyway) and it was highly successful. The war in Iraq isnt even remotely successful, the comparison I would draw from this is that one President was competent and the other wasnt. The other conclusion you could draw is that his end goal isnt to stabilise the area, which leads us back to the topic of this thread.

Thank god Clinton didnt let the US army use its AC130 gunships in Mogadishu like the army commanders wanted, they killed thousands of Somali's in one night as it was.

 

[davidmc]

My question is where were they when we dropping bombs on Kosovo (Operation Monica), invading Bosnia, occupying Somalia or changing the regime in Haiti?
Tens of thousands of human beings died during these brilliant military operations, yet these people never seemed to put any other president on a war criminals list. Curious, isn't it?

Curious how none of these countries, you mentioned, have any sizable oil reserves Also curious how war profiteering wasn't carried out in collusion w/ the administration as has been the "driving force" in Iraq

 

[zapper]

Wars of Aggression are War Crimes by definition.

Wrong booger..This war liberated millions of iraqi’s

You can't be talking about Iraq. Less electricity, less clean water, less security, higher death-rates, higher infant mortality, higher unemployment, oh and a shattered Healthcare system (with doctors fleeing the country in droves).

Proof??? Care to provide some real stats??

It is already happening with the troops there, have you missed the reports of government ministers getting assassinated ?

How many were executed when Saddam took over booger?

The troops are not exactly typical citizens of Iraq are they ? They wear body armor, have medics on hand, live in heavily defended compounds and move around in armored vehicles with gunship support. How about asking the Iraqis themselves ?

When was the last time you were there bungles…I don’t think weed grows very well n the sand…

The troops who levelled Fallujah (a city of over 250,000 people) are War Criminals. They started by attacking the Hospital, let alone the rest.

As usual you place blame on the good guys….

********. War crimes can be committed by anyone, and the definition is not up for unilateral redefinition in order to legitimise the torture and wars of aggression committed on GWB's watch.

Rubbish…We have gone out of our freakin way not to harm innocent people…We could have nuked the damn place and been done with it…Then, you would have a legitimate argument… But for now you are just puffing balloon juice!

 

[darkboong]

Ah, Flappy The Mascot Pillock joins the fray with more pointless drivel

Wrong booger..This war liberated millions of iraqi’s

Utterly irrelevent and weak propaganda. It is still a war of aggression and that is still a war crime by definition.

Proof??? Care to provide some real stats??

Proof ? That's the stuff you ignore isn't it Flappy ? Must be, because I've posted plenty in other threads and posts and you have ignored it.

How many were executed when Saddam took over booger?

Dunno for sure I only have "Estimates" to go on Flappy Flap Flaps. How about you provide some figures yourself for a change ? I've asked you to provide some figures and sources for this before and you never have.

As usual you place blame on the good guys….

Ah, right whinging about blame. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah !

Last time I checked good guys didn't do torture and murder. The Occupation Troops have murdered and tortured regardless of what you say.

Rubbish…We have gone out of our freakin way not to harm innocent people…

Prove it Flappy. Provide some evidence to show that the US Military has systematically and consistently acted to minimise harm to innocent people.

We could have nuked the damn place and been done with it…

Sure, but that would have made extraction of the oil more costly.

 

[zapper]

Ah, Flappy The Mascot Pillock joins the fray with more pointless drivel

Ah...still hanging out with your granny I see...

Utterly irrelevent and weak propaganda. It is still a war of aggression and that is still a war crime by definition.

In your mind maybe...Yes, providing training for an invading countries troops..highly aggressive there Rube...

Proof ? That's the stuff you ignore isn't it Flappy ? Must be, because I've posted plenty in other threads and posts and you have ignored it.

Maybe you might think of posting relevant information with your posts. Instead of referring to some other thread all of the time...That is your standard comeback..."oh, flappy flap jack pappy **** deck I posted all of my relevant proof on the other thread....bla bla bla" yeah, right. Maybe your granny posted it and you're taking credit for it??? or the more likely scenario...you were just trippin man...far out....

Dunno for sure I only have "Estimates" to go on Flappy Flap Flaps. How about you provide some figures yourself for a change ? I've asked you to provide some figures and sources for this before and you never have.

Yeah and there not even your own....booger bag bongs....

Last time I checked good guys didn't do torture and murder. The Occupation Troops have murdered and tortured regardless of what you say.

Ah you mean the insurgents here don't you? bungles bung bungs

Prove it Flappy. Provide some evidence to show that the US Military has systematically and consistently acted to minimise harm to innocent people.

That's easy...Iraq is still on the freakin map...correct? Uh, I know you left your map on another thread...

 

[darkboong]

Maybe you might think of posting relevant information with your posts. Instead of referring to some other thread all of the time...

You are just flapping your Flaps again Flapper.

Let's see your figures for the casualties, mortality rates, and life-expectancy under Saddam and the Occupation. So far you have just Flapped your Flaps.

I just found out that they renamed the Motorpool, now it's the "Joint Psychological Operations Support Element". ROTFL.

 

[zapper]

You are just flapping your Flaps again Flapper.

Let's see your figures for the casualties, mortality rates, and life-expectancy under Saddam and the Occupation. So far you have just Flapped your Flaps.

I just found out that they renamed the Motorpool, now it's the "Joint Psychological Operations Support Element". ROTFL.

and you are just flapping your bung...bungles...

 

[darkboong]

and you are just flapping your bung...bungles...

No.

No evidence yet either, Flappy Flap Flaps ?

No evidence, so you don't contest that the Iraqis are *worse* off in their so-called "Liberation"... K, gotcha, keep on burning the 'Raki children Mr. Greenjeans.

Get real, post some evidence Flaps, or just keep on Flapping, your choice.

 

[limerickman]

The answers got to be Bush.

Bin Laden never pretended to be the good guy.
Neither did Hussein.

Bush on the other hand pays lip service to ideals about freedom and lack of tyranny.

Whatever claims Bush had about invading Afghanistan - and there now seems to be serious questions about his stewardship of 9/11 (http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050613-102755-6408r.htm) - his decision to invade Iraq and the subsequent loss of Iraqi lives is morally, ethically, legally unjustifiable.

The USA has no business in Iraq.
It never had any business in Iraq.

 

[davidmc]

The answers got to be Bush.

Bin Laden never pretended to be the good guy.
Neither did Hussein.

Bush on the other hand pays lip service to ideals about freedom and lack of tyranny.

Whatever claims Bush had about invading Afghanistan - and there now seems to be serious questions about his stewardship of 9/11 (http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050613-102755-6408r.htm) - his decision to invade Iraq and the subsequent loss of Iraqi lives is morally, ethically, legally unjustifiable.

The USA has no business in Iraq.
It never had any business in Iraq.

The U.S. has buisiness EVERYWHERE. President Wilson, I believe, said-"The buisiness of America is buisiness" It is in our interest to see Iraq & Afghanistan develop into democratic republic's of some sort. It would serve to propogate human right's reform's & good buisiness climates. We are the dreaded "merchant" class. As we all know, Israel is at the heart of the matter, Follwed by Iran. Both share close proximity to said countries. My only "beef" is w/ the administrations incessant lies as it relates to Iraq such as Cheney's remark that "...the insurgency is on it's last legs." My **** As they say in Texas or is it Tennessee , "Don't **** on my leg & tell me it's raining "