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How many of you carry a gun as part of your cycling equipment? - Page 238

post #3556 of 3922



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AceBruceGary View Post

 

Back on topic:
I am not your hard core road racer. I am just getting back into riding after a long hiatus. I've never really been a jersey type of guy but I did find one recently that I just had to have. I tried carrying 3 different guns in the rear pockets and found that most of what I have just doesn't cut it. There are a few concerns as far as jersey carry and the two most important to me are weight and size(fitment). After fitment and weight comes concealability and access.

1. Kahr MK9 - Even this gun is slightly too large. As a stainless frame it is way to heavy to be in either left or right pocket as the jersey tends to pull way too much to that side. Does not work.
2. Glock 26 - Too big for the jersey. The grip stuck out even with a flush magazine. Even heavier than the MK9. Does not work.
3. Smith and Wesson model 60 snub nose. Weight is definitely an issue but size was great. The outline prints pretty obviously but most people wouldn't stare at it, nor would they think it was a gun. I took it out today without a pocket holster and it did fine. I do want a lighter and smaller gun for the future so it looks like my search will tend to something in .380


The reason I "had" to get a jersey is that the moment I saw it, I thought about this thread.
So this picture is for tonyzackary: (Just a bit of humor so please don't take offense)

And no I don't carry that revolver with me on rides. It is way too much fun to ride with.
http://i52.tinypic.com/a3plzt.jpg


Have you considered a frame mounted holster or "pack"  of some sort that doesn't reveal the contents.  Large bento box or a frame triangle bag?   Would still have to deal with times when you are off the bike, however.

post #3557 of 3922

attachment.php?attachmentid=530512&d=1296925066

post #3558 of 3922

While I'm still thinking about AceBruceGary"s post, rememberattachment.php?attachmentid=530515&d=1296925127

post #3559 of 3922
Quote:
Originally Posted by sitzmark View Post

From a legal perspective I don't think there would be a requirement if riding on public roads.  If the person is legally allowed to carry in public, it would then make sense that the group could not ask him/her to leave the group so long as the group was on a public road.   Not really sure it is legal for cycling groups to require helmet use on public roads for the same reason ... but many do.  If someone wanted to make a stink about it I'm not sure the club could legally enforce, unless they had an event that closed the road to general public access.  Certainly a private club could refuse membership to anyone who refuses to wear a helmet or who carries a weapon, but once the group sets out on a public street I doubt there is a legal way to tell the "offender" they can't ride on the same road in any proximity of the group.

 

Just a guess - but it seems logical.

There are few states that require any sort of notification while carrying a gun and I believe all of them are specifically regarding law enforcement encounters not civilian encounters.

 

Still not sure what the point of notification is. If you carry a folding pocketknife to church should you feel responsible for notifying those around you?

I guess I just don't get it. It has nothing to do with anyone else in the room. 
 

 

post #3560 of 3922
Quote:
Originally Posted by sitzmark View Post

Have you considered a frame mounted holster or "pack"  of some sort that doesn't reveal the contents.  Large bento box or a frame triangle bag?   Would still have to deal with times when you are off the bike, however.


I have considered making a kydex holster that wraps around the top tube.  I have looked into the bento box and triangle bag but I would really prefer to have the gun on me.

Thanks for the suggestions though.

 

post #3561 of 3922
Quote:
Originally Posted by AceBruceGary View Post




I have considered making a kydex holster that wraps around the top tube.  I have looked into the bento box and triangle bag but I would really prefer to have the gun on me.

Thanks for the suggestions though.

 



How about a cross shoulder harness with the holster on your chest?

 

post #3562 of 3922
Quote:
Originally Posted by davereo View Post

How about a cross shoulder harness with the holster on your chest?

 


I know a few people who ride their motorcycles this way but they are geared up and concealing under their jackets.

I have used a 5.11 holster shirt while riding before (which would be similar to the shoulder holster) before but in certain positions the gun tends to want to fall out.

post #3563 of 3922
Quote:
Originally Posted by AceBruceGary View Post


 

 

It is easier to get bike related information from a cycling forum than a gun forum. Equipment is part of biking and I figured I'd find people who had creative ways of carrying, or were knowledgeable about which guns work best. I had thought that this would be a place where people could discuss things like carrying odd equipment (epipens, insulin pumps, wallets, cell phones etc). 
 

You would be very surprised to know that many people around you are carrying concealed. At the grocery store, bank, mall, gas station etc. You are surrounded by lawful citizens that are carrying concealed. They have no reason to tell anyone. Why? Because there are people perhaps like you who might freak out at the thought. You wouldn't ride in a group if someone was carrying a gun? Please explain your reasoning why. Chances are you've sat next to, worked with, or been in the same room with many people who have been carrying.

 

Back on topic:
I am not your hard core road racer. I am just getting back into riding after a long hiatus. I've never really been a jersey type of guy but I did find one recently that I just had to have. I tried carrying 3 different guns in the rear pockets and found that most of what I have just doesn't cut it. There are a few concerns as far as jersey carry and the two most important to me are weight and size(fitment). After fitment and weight comes concealability and access.

1. Kahr MK9 - Even this gun is slightly too large. As a stainless frame it is way to heavy to be in either left or right pocket as the jersey tends to pull way too much to that side. Does not work.
2. Glock 26 - Too big for the jersey. The grip stuck out even with a flush magazine. Even heavier than the MK9. Does not work.
3. Smith and Wesson model 60 snub nose. Weight is definitely an issue but size was great. The outline prints pretty obviously but most people wouldn't stare at it, nor would they think it was a gun. I took it out today without a pocket holster and it did fine. I do want a lighter and smaller gun for the future so it looks like my search will tend to something in .380


The reason I "had" to get a jersey is that the moment I saw it, I thought about this thread.
So this picture is for tonyzackary: (Just a bit of humor so please don't take offense)

And no I don't carry that revolver with me on rides. It is way too much fun to ride with.
http://i52.tinypic.com/a3plzt.jpg
 

Image and video hosting by TinyPic



You might want to look at a fanny pack. I have an older one that holds two water bottles either side of the storage pouch. Unfortunately I don't remeber where I got it.

 

post #3564 of 3922
post #3565 of 3922

There are probably 100s of cyclists hit by cars everyday in the US.  What do you suggest those (the survivors, of course) or any other cyclists do in the future - wear full-body armor with a football helmet for good measure?  Rather extreme reaction to protect themselves, no?  Is my point clear enough? 

Paranoia will destroya...

 

edit - and just as there are VERY simple, common sense precautions that are easily employed to preclude being struck by a car, there are even simpler precautions that one can take to avoid being assaulted while bike riding - and toting around a concealed weapon will do nothing to assist in doing the SMART thing here - avoiding a potential incident altogether.  'Bernard Goetz mentality' is just wrong, IMO, on a number of levels...  


Edited by tonyzackery - 8/28/11 at 9:13am
post #3566 of 3922
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyzackery View Post

There are probably 100s of cyclists hit by cars everyday in the US.  What do you suggest those (the survivors, of course) or any other cyclists do in the future - wear full-body armor with a football helmet for good measure?  Rather extreme reaction to protect themselves, no?  Is my point clear enough? 

Paranoia will destroya...

 

edit - and just as there are VERY simple, common sense precautions that are easily employed to preclude being struck by a car, there are even simpler precautions that one can take to avoid being assaulted while bike riding - and toting around a concealed weapon will do nothing to assist in doing the SMART thing here - avoiding a potential incident altogether.  'Bernard Goetz mentality' is just wrong, IMO, on a number of levels...  

icon14.gificon14.gificon14.gif
 

 

post #3567 of 3922
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlatTired View Post

If anyone who reads this thread wonders why, read this;http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_8b63e7fc-bff0-51cb-8b97-36d60945f756.html?mode=story


Seems this has nothing to do with cycling. The same thing could have happened if he was on foot.

 

post #3568 of 3922

AceBruceGary, you said "A firearm is a tool. It doesn't make me a violent person nor any more prone to crazy actions." You're right in that it doesn't automatically make you a violent person, but you're more likely to be statistically:

 

According to the National Institute of Justice, males who legally carried were 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for a non-traffic offense (15% versus 6%, Page 8).

 

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811386.pdf


Don't believe it? Take it up with the Department of Justice research team and tell them their study is flawed and explain to them why.

 

When I go for a ride, I make a decision on what to carry based on how likely I am to need that item and I'm sure everyone on here does.

 

Why would I choose to carry a flat repair kit, extra tube, cell phone, and wear a helmet when I ride? Because I've used all of these items to keep myself safe or get home (and these events are statistically more likely than being attacked and needing a gun while riding) Why would I decide to carry a first aid bag in my trunk and a spare tire? Because I'm way more likely to need these items both statistically and in my personal experience. If someone has never had a flat on a bike and they ride regularly but they've needed their firearm while riding a bike (because this thread is about carrying a firearm while riding) more power to them. I make decisions based on reliable information, using critical thought and experience. If someone else has a different process more power to them. That's their right.

 

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811386.pdf

 

Why did I bring up seeing people on a regular basis with things stuck in places the items weren't designed to go? Because this is a reality I see while on the JOB, NOT while riding a bike, at the grocery store, commuting. I don't take that reality home with me when I clock out. I've looked at the information I have and said it's not logical to carry tools for this when the odds are astronomical that I'll need them. If I was in law enforcement, I would absolutely carry a firearm at all times because of the nature of what you do and that you are required to intervene if you witness a crime. It makes perfect sense. Your on the job reality is one with more danger than the average person, by far. Carrying a handgun on a bike ride, doesn't for the vast majority of people (those who ride in the outback, great, those who are participating in the Tour De Pakistan, great....btw, that's not a knock, they use armed escorts because an attack is a reality there). Note: I didn't say you CAN'T choose to carry a gun as long as you're doing so legally, practice good judgment that doesn't put other riders or people in danger, you secure it properly so kids aren't killing themselves with it just as I can carry a spare tube on the train to commute. It's my right to do so regardless of whether it makes sense or not.

 

You said to me "I don't want to be offensive but I think you have missed something in school (or maybe you didn't go to a US school)." Not sure what gave you the impression that I'm not a native born US citizen or maybe it just makes you feel better to resort to cheat shots when you don't have solid information to back up your arguments. I'm not going to get into a pissing match over who's a better American. Sorry, there are other forums out there for that, one's that I don't belong to.

 

Maybe we took different classes, went to different schools, etc. but all the universities I attended (all very selective tier 1 institutions) for undergrad and graduate school taught us to be critical of our sources, to do our due diligence when researching, and to use critical and rational thought to the best of our ability before making a decision. If the institutions you attended taught other schools of though or processes, great. I'm not going to debate constitutional law with you because people who have devoted their entire lives to the subject can't come to a consensus on this issue for many reasons, one of them being the Constitution was written to be flexible to withstand the tests of time. I have an opinion on the matter, but it's no more valid than yours. Or is this where I question who is more of an American based on something arbitrary? So, if you want to debate conditional law on a cycling forum, go for it, but it would be more ideal if you took your arguments to a forum that focuses on that.

 

If you believe you understand the Constitution better than anyone you'll find on any amateur message board let alone a cycling forum, then take your arguments to a peer reviewed journal on constitutional law....here's two to get you started.

 

http://www.law.duke.edu/journals/djclpp/

http://www.law.upenn.edu/journals/conlaw/

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AceBruceGary View Post

 

 

Rights are not enacted. Rights are affirmed by our Constitution and protected by our govt. I see in your signature that you may be in Canada so you might not be aware of how our Constitutional Republic is defined. 


I'm not sure why you keep thinking about "scared or prepared". I'm not sure why it matters. Do you wear a seatbelt because you are scared or prepared. Why do you care?d

Before going into law enforcement I worked as an EMT for quite some time and I did see a few cases of the "stuck up the butt". Once was a vibrator which was stuck in the on position but seemed to make a turn in the lower intestine. No one is asking you to carry tools to remove objects from people's butts. Perhaps if you were inserting them in your own butt you might take some precautions and carry those tools around. Your analogy really doesn't make any sense at all.

 

I don't carry a gun so I can go around "helping" people. I carry a gun for myself. 

 

Plenty of people here have suggested ridiculous situations that they seem to think may happen including yourself.

Shark attack..bike race competitors etc. 

 

Plenty of douchebags carry pocket knives but it doesn't mean that they will stab the next person who steals their parking space. Plenty of people have weapons ready at hand (flashlight, pocketknife, keys, mace) and they don't spontaneously erupt into violence because of them. 

 

Yes you have seen gun accidents. So have I. I have also seen stabbings, vehicular homicide, people being killed by rocks, kids drowned in pools. I'm not sure what your point is. 

Is an accidental shooting any worse than a purposeful stabbing? Is a purposeful shooting any different than an accidental vehicular homicide? 

 

A firearm is a tool. It doesn't make me a violent person nor any more prone to crazy actions. No more so than having a 6 pack of beer in your trunk will make you more likely to drive under the influence. 

 

 

 




I don't want to be offensive but I think you have missed something in school (or maybe you didn't go to a US school).

Our founding fathers created the Constitution to protect our rights, not give us them. They believed our rights were inherent, not granted to us by any sort of power. 

It is a major distinction and what sets us apart from other forms of govt. 

 



 

post #3569 of 3922

@Samspade - FYI, I believe you mistook some of the ABG person's comments as being directed to you when in actuality they were directed to me.  Nonetheless, your common sense concern to this matter is admirable.

post #3570 of 3922

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2011/08/29/alert-for-swarm-and-slug-mobs/ 

 

Free-fire zone in St. Loo!

 

Tactical draws and reloads earn extra style points.

 

Points deducted for any perps that make it to trial and cost law-abiding taxpayers additional funds.

 

They love to fight in large groups...not so much when the bodies hit the floor.

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