8 spd Dura Ace or 9spd 105
- Thread starter Latch
- Start date
G'day,
Quick answer....nup. The 8 speed DA will be older than the 105 9. Chances are that DA 8 technology has already 'trickled' down to the 105 9. You can generally assume that this years DA is next years Ultegra. Anyway, why would you want 1 less gear?.
cheers,
Hitchy
Here we go, once again. Someone was sharing their opinion and trying to help and you just have to be rude for no reason. Why not offer a helpful comment or say nothing at all. It's nice to be nice!
i agree with boudreax about hitchy's comment being at least a lot stretched and inaccurate, especially when he says that "You can generally assume that this years DA is next years Ultegra", that's just false.
It's true that when there's some big change in the design of the dura ace group, cheaper grouppos redesigns follow though, inheriting some of the DA improvements... 1997: 7400 DA gets replaced by 7700 DA - 1998: 6400 Ultegra gets replace by 6500 Ultegra - 1999: 1055 105 gets replaced by 5500 105, with 9speed, hollowtech and octalink technology "trickling down" to cheaper grouppos... the same way, you can easily predict that with 7800 DA being introduced this year, next years Ultegra will get a 10speed+integrated bottom bracket redesign... it's just something that doesn't happen every year, plus Dura Ace will always have an advantage in finish, better anodization and attention to details compared to cheaper grouppos.
so i disagree with boudreaux about taking pre-1997 8speed dura-ace over 1999 and later 9speed 105, given equal conditions the old DA will probably be nicer looking, but judging on the pure performance current 105 comes with 1 extra cog, better derailleur geometry, stiffer splined bottom bracket/cranks interface, less weight and better spare parts availability.
It's true that when there's some big change in the design of the dura ace group, cheaper grouppos redesigns follow though, inheriting some of the DA improvements... 1997: 7400 DA gets replaced by 7700 DA - 1998: 6400 Ultegra gets replace by 6500 Ultegra - 1999: 1055 105 gets replaced by 5500 105, with 9speed, hollowtech and octalink technology "trickling down" to cheaper grouppos... the same way, you can easily predict that with 7800 DA being introduced this year, next years Ultegra will get a 10speed+integrated bottom bracket redesign... it's just something that doesn't happen every year, plus Dura Ace will always have an advantage in finish, better anodization and attention to details compared to cheaper grouppos.
so i disagree with boudreaux about taking pre-1997 8speed dura-ace over 1999 and later 9speed 105, given equal conditions the old DA will probably be nicer looking, but judging on the pure performance current 105 comes with 1 extra cog, better derailleur geometry, stiffer splined bottom bracket/cranks interface, less weight and better spare parts availability.
Better derailer geomety?? Tell me about that one, pleeze. The crank/BB stuff is just hooey, and so is better spare parts. The shifters are the big issue, and aren't rebuildable anyway. I ride 8 and 9 speed cranks and BB and can't tell the difference in stiffness. The old tapered cartrige BB often last longer because they have bigger bearing and the 'increased stiffness' is just marketing. I'm not gonna do the research on weight by item,but suggest you are just generalizing. You guys miss the point.It's not like he is asking if he shoud ditch his 105 and go buy 8 speed DA,as he's already got it. Assuming he can do it himself, I'd stick it on and use it
well Boudreaux, i still run 7-speed 105 with downtube shifters (plan on assembling a bike with a used ultegra ) so i know you can survive without original old shimano parts and i can agree that as long that shifting works/bearings roll smooth/cranks aren't made of butter/the whole thing doesn't weigh a ton, every other theorethical difference is just "hooey", but that's also the main reason why we have to take "probable facts" and personal preferences into account to make a choice.
...anyway, it seems we've come to this conclusions:
there are no "real" facts (saved for the extra cog) showing that 9 speed 105 is better, as well as there are no "real" facts showing that old 8 speed DA is better.. there are a few theorethical points in favor to 9 speed 105 though, but every of them (BB/cranks stiffness, throw ratio, spare parts availability) seems to fall in the category of "probable facts".
Even though i admit i'd be sincerely tempted cause it'd look a lot fancier, i still don't see a reason to stick that 8speed DA on, having to base a judgement over "real facts", that extra cog *wins* (old shimano parts availability truly is an issue here in Italy, anyway)
Since you don't care about that extra cog, you would stick it on cause of a reasonable personal preference for Dura Ace.
That's pretty much about it, right? So what has Latch decided???
...anyway, it seems we've come to this conclusions:
there are no "real" facts (saved for the extra cog) showing that 9 speed 105 is better, as well as there are no "real" facts showing that old 8 speed DA is better.. there are a few theorethical points in favor to 9 speed 105 though, but every of them (BB/cranks stiffness, throw ratio, spare parts availability) seems to fall in the category of "probable facts".
Even though i admit i'd be sincerely tempted cause it'd look a lot fancier, i still don't see a reason to stick that 8speed DA on, having to base a judgement over "real facts", that extra cog *wins* (old shimano parts availability truly is an issue here in Italy, anyway)
Since you don't care about that extra cog, you would stick it on cause of a reasonable personal preference for Dura Ace.
That's pretty much about it, right? So what has Latch decided???
Hey thanks for all th input guys....I reckon at this stage I'll keep the 105 running gear and just chuck on the DA brake calipers...and just see how we go...when I have a bit of time to muck around with I might change the whole lot over just to test for a while...I'll let you know when I do it.....Cheers all
Good score on the brakes, I am doing almost exactly the same thing, except I opted to replace my dales with '03 series used Dura Ace brakes.
I also wanted to upgrade the cogset that came with my 105 drivetrain as well. My best suggestion is to find a used 9 spd Dura Ace cassette with the cogs that you want. The 105 BB and crank are a good set, and swapping the cassette is the easiest and least expensive way to update your drive train.
