"City Bike" Hot New Category at Bicycle Industry Show



On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 19:22:18 -0400, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 14:55:57 -0700, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Don Wiss wrote:
>>> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 04:05:00 -0700, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Let's just say it's extremely rare (like never), to see one of these
>>>> commute bikes out at night using only the dynamo lights.
>>>
>>> Not true here in NYC. Most here commute with no front light at all. I use a
>>> dynamo light. We don't need more. All streets have street lights.
>
>>That's true, on well lit streets like in NYC you can get by with
>>whatever keeps you legal. Around here there are quite a few Breezer's
>>around but the commutes are such that everyone puts better lights on them.
>
>Well, to be legal here one needs lights, but it is never enforced. So
>headlights are rare. Blinkie tail lights are more common, but it is far
>from universal.
>
>To change the subject. In Europe (at least in The Netherlands) tail lights
>can't blink. Is this technically also true in the US?
Technically true in Ontario Canada, but not enforced. Even the
bike-mounted cops use blinkies.
>
>Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 10:43:58 -0500, A Muzi <[email protected]>
wrote:

>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>> are no lights supplied until you get all the way up to their top-of-the-line
>>> model, the World Adventure-http://www.schwinnbike.com/products/bikes_detail.php?id=954.
>
>Chalo wrote:
>> They put vertical dropouts and a chain tensioner on a bike that comes
>> *from the factory* with a gearhub?!?!! Are they on crack? (I mean,
>> this is Pacific Cycle we're talking about, so it's probably a
>> combination of betel nut and counterfeit Valium, but still... WTF?)
>
>Or just PCP and toluene? Sky Yaeger isn't at Bianchi any longer.
>Bianchi also has an internal gear bike with the wrong ends and a
>tensioner for 2008. Whatever for? Why, 'urban bike' with disc brake of
>course.
>O tempora, O mores.
It's a case of "run what you brung" and they haven't built a frame
with horizontal dropouts for quite some time - at least not the type
of frame they are using for the "townies"
Simpler to test the waters with a gearhub by installing a tensioner
(gutted deraileur) than re-engineering the frames.

--
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Andrew Muzi mused:
>>
> Chalo wrote:
>> They put vertical dropouts and a chain tensioner on a bike that comes
>> *from the factory* with a gearhub?!?!! Are they on crack? (I mean,
>> this is Pacific Cycle we're talking about, so it's probably a
>> combination of betel nut and counterfeit Valium, but still... WTF?)
>
> Or just PCP and toluene?...

Local knowledge?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
A Real Cyclist [TM] keeps at least one bicycle in the bedroom.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Sep 2007, [email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote:
>
> >Thank you, I will. At least, the mechanised/motorized ones
> >that slide out like a CD player tray. I also like to make
> >fun of electric toothbrushes, electric backscratchers,
> >electric card shufflers, etc.
>
> Actually electric toothbrushes can be useful as they generally will do a
> better job then you can do by hand. One thing that is useless, like the
> other two you list, is electric can openers.

I suspect electric can openers have their merits in industrial settings
of some sort, and I suspect that there's a surprisingly large minority
of people who don't have the manual dexterity to open a can by hand.

The combination of arthritis and typical grip-strength degeneration in
old age must be especially potent here.

Can't speak to electric backscratchers, but electric card shufflers are
generally way faster than humans. even some casinos use them; I've seen
table games dealt with alternating decks, where the pre-shuffled second
deck pops out of a hole in the table:

http://www.proshuffler.com/products.html

That's being sold as a consumer version, but the physical interface is
essentially what I saw mounted into the table. If there was a LED
display, it was not on the table, but I suspect it was in a
dealer-visible area.

More importantly, electric shufflers are fast. I'm not saying we should
always strive to maximize throughput in our leisure activities, but
surely shuffling the cards is one of the more tedious elements of most
poker nights.

I recall that the first time I played solitaire on a computer, I noted
that the computer-speed shuffling and dealing essentially meant the game
was better than playing with real cards. That said, I won't argue with
such aesthetes who like the feel of real cards in their actual hands.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
 
Don Wiss wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Sep 2007, [email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote:
>
>> Thank you, I will. At least, the mechanised/motorized ones
>> that slide out like a CD player tray. I also like to make
>> fun of electric toothbrushes, electric backscratchers,
>> electric card shufflers, etc.
>
> Actually electric toothbrushes can be useful as they generally will do a
> better job then you can do by hand. One thing that is useless, like the
> other two you list, is electric can openers. And then maybe electric
> knives, though I've never used one.
>
> Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Electric knives are useful when cutting up things like turkeys or large
roasts. Also good for cutting homemade bread without destroying the loaf.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> writes:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 29 Sep 2007, [email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote:
>>
>> >Thank you, I will. At least, the mechanised/motorized ones
>> >that slide out like a CD player tray. I also like to make
>> >fun of electric toothbrushes, electric backscratchers,
>> >electric card shufflers, etc.
>>
>> Actually electric toothbrushes can be useful as they generally will do a
>> better job then you can do by hand.

That's a crock o' you-know-what, and you know it.


>
> More importantly, electric shufflers are fast. I'm not saying we should
> always strive to maximize throughput
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I work in a logistics centre. Maximizing throughput is largely what
retaining my job is all about. Throughput & turnover.

How nice it is, to get home, kick off the workboots, and forget
about throughput and turnover, and just be a human bean. Albeit
tired, worn-out, and having sore feet and various other maladies
like a plantar callus right behind the little piggie who didn't
have roast beef, around which we must surround with Dr Scholl's
sticky O-rings.

Maybe sometimes we should minimize throughput & turnover.
We're not machines. Especially not minimum-wage machines.

Humanity requires an human touch.

As you know, bicycles respond to the human touch quite well,
as do canoes & kayaks.

Remember dial telephones? Those responded to one's touch, too.
At least, they appeared to. (Actually I remember party lines.)


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
 
In article <[email protected]>,
SMS <[email protected]> writes:
> Don Wiss wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Sep 2007, [email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you, I will. At least, the mechanised/motorized ones
>>> that slide out like a CD player tray. I also like to make
>>> fun of electric toothbrushes, electric backscratchers,
>>> electric card shufflers, etc.
>>
>> Actually electric toothbrushes can be useful as they generally will do a
>> better job then you can do by hand. One thing that is useless, like the
>> other two you list, is electric can openers. And then maybe electric
>> knives, though I've never used one.
>>
>> Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).
>
> Electric knives are useful when cutting up things like turkeys or large
> roasts. Also good for cutting homemade bread without destroying the loaf.

It seems you don't know how to sharpen a kitchen carving knife,
nor the cooling stage at which to carve or cut cooked stuff.
It's an ancient, time-honoured skill which predates electric
gadgetry.



--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
 
Don Wiss wrote:

> To change the subject. In Europe (at least in The Netherlands) tail lights
> can't blink. Is this technically also true in the US?

Each state makes their own rules, but most adhere to the uniform vehicle
code for stuff like this. It's not perfectly clear whether flashing red
lights are permitted on bicycles, or if bicycles are treated like motor
vehicles. Some states have explicitly permitted bicycles to have a
flashing red light in the rear (i.e. Ohio), see
"http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4511.56".

The original flashing lights, the Belt Beacon and Ed Kearny's "barricade
light" were yellow because yellow flashers are in a gray area of "slow
moving vehicle."

Of course none of this is enforced. If you put a flashing blue light on
your bicycle then I think you might have a chance of getting stopped by
the police.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman" <[email protected]> writes:
> Andrew Muzi mused:
>>>
>> Chalo wrote:
>>> They put vertical dropouts and a chain tensioner on a bike that comes
>>> *from the factory* with a gearhub?!?!! Are they on crack? (I mean,
>>> this is Pacific Cycle we're talking about, so it's probably a
>>> combination of betel nut and counterfeit Valium, but still... WTF?)
>>
>> Or just PCP and toluene?...
>
> Local knowledge?

Around here, and especially at this time of year,
"local knowledge" is about the best places in which
to harvest mushrooms.

And no, I'm not even gonna drop any hints.
Mushroom-pickin' places are sacrosanct,
'n that's that.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
 
SMS wrote:
> Don Wiss wrote:
>
>> To change the subject. In Europe (at least in The Netherlands) tail
>> lights
>> can't blink. Is this technically also true in the US?
>
> Each state makes their own rules, but most adhere to the uniform vehicle
> code for stuff like this. It's not perfectly clear whether flashing red
> lights are permitted on bicycles, or if bicycles are treated like motor
> vehicles. Some states have explicitly permitted bicycles to have a
> flashing red light in the rear (i.e. Ohio), see
> "http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4511.56".
>
> The original flashing lights, the Belt Beacon and Ed Kearny's "barricade
> light" were yellow because yellow flashers are in a gray area of "slow
> moving vehicle."
>
> Of course none of this is enforced. If you put a flashing blue light on
> your bicycle then I think you might have a chance of getting stopped by
> the police.
>

I've had police go past me while I've had a flashing blue light and
they've never stopped. Traffic was always slower and gave me a lot more
space with the blue light. I recommend it.

Dorfus
 
Tom Keats wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> writes:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 29 Sep 2007, [email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thank you, I will. At least, the mechanised/motorized ones
>>>> that slide out like a CD player tray. I also like to make
>>>> fun of electric toothbrushes, electric backscratchers,
>>>> electric card shufflers, etc.
>>> Actually electric toothbrushes can be useful as they generally will do a
>>> better job then you can do by hand.
>
> That's a crock o' you-know-what, and you know it.
>
>
>> More importantly, electric shufflers are fast. I'm not saying we should
>> always strive to maximize throughput
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> I work in a logistics centre. Maximizing throughput is largely what
> retaining my job is all about. Throughput & turnover.
>
> How nice it is, to get home, kick off the workboots, and forget
> about throughput and turnover, and just be a human bean. Albeit
> tired, worn-out, and having sore feet and various other maladies
> like a plantar callus right behind the little piggie who didn't
> have roast beef, around which we must surround with Dr Scholl's
> sticky O-rings.
>
> Maybe sometimes we should minimize throughput & turnover.
> We're not machines. Especially not minimum-wage machines.

You Canuck Communist! ;)

> Humanity requires an human touch.
>
> As you know, bicycles respond to the human touch quite well,
> as do canoes & kayaks.

No Segway in the Keats household?

> Remember dial telephones? Those responded to one's touch, too.
> At least, they appeared to. (Actually I remember party lines.)

I like modern mobile phones better, since they allow you to confirm the
number and correct mistakes (without having to redial the whole number)
before placing the call.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
A Real Cyclist [TM] keeps at least one bicycle in the bedroom.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 
Tom Keats wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman" <[email protected]> writes:
>> Andrew Muzi mused:
>>> Chalo wrote:
>>>> They put vertical dropouts and a chain tensioner on a bike that comes
>>>> *from the factory* with a gearhub?!?!! Are they on crack? (I mean,
>>>> this is Pacific Cycle we're talking about, so it's probably a
>>>> combination of betel nut and counterfeit Valium, but still... WTF?)
>>> Or just PCP and toluene?...
>> Local knowledge?
>
> Around here, and especially at this time of year,
> "local knowledge" is about the best places in which
> to harvest mushrooms.
>
> And no, I'm not even gonna drop any hints.
> Mushroom-pickin' places are sacrosanct,
> 'n that's that.

Well, according to Mapquest it is 5½ miles from Andrew's shop to Pacific
Cycles HQ (with the "avoid highways" option).

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
A Real Cyclist [TM] keeps at least one bicycle in the bedroom.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Sep 2007, [email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote:
>
> >Thank you, I will. At least, the mechanised/motorized ones that
> >slide out like a CD player tray. I also like to make fun of
> >electric toothbrushes, electric backscratchers, electric card
> >shufflers, etc.
>
> Actually electric toothbrushes can be useful as they generally will
> do a better job then you can do by hand.

I looked this up once and found that most of the research indicated that
a standard Oral-B toothbrush worked as well or better than electric
toothbrushes, once the test subjects were taught proper brushing
technique.
 
Sat, 29 Sep 2007 14:13:36 -0400, Gooserider:

>"Andreas Oehler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:38:43 -0400, Gooserider:
>>
>>>>> $1900 Breezer Finesse. You're welcome.

>>>. Crappy light
>>
>> You don't know, what you are talking about. The Lumtec Fly IQ used here is
>> the brightest and best-shaped light for hub dynamos you can find. Will
>> beat most 20 W halogen lights!
>>
>
>Will it beat the DiNotte 200L? The NiteRider Minewt?

I haven't had the possibility to try out those lamps - so I won't call
them "crappy"... But I presume they have the usual cheap and simple
rotational symmetric optics, which are by principle far from optimal for
illuminating the road ahead in an efficient way.

> more lumens are better.

Only if you shape the beam in an appropriate and efficient way. A laser
pointer with as much lumens as you might get won't help you much - similar
a naked 200 Watt bulb... Rotational symmetric optics in most cases mean
half of the lumens is wasted up into the sky and the eyes of uncoming
cyclists. It also often means too bright light nearby disturnbing your
night vision for illuminated object further away.

> The only case in which
>dynamo lights would be superior, in my mind, is touring.

Touring is mostly done during the day and the extra hassle of a battery
lamp is no problem because yoi have all the time in the world. If you are
carrying a tent you might also have the advantage of using the battery
lamp to read after dark. I use a dynamo-chraged battery lamp for touring.

But here in town I have other things to care for than to look after my
lights. If I always have to mount and dismont the lamps on every stop
(shopping at three differnt shops, going to the library, restaurant,
friends, sport, ...) I would go cracy!

>Otherwise, a good
>LED rechargeable system is going to give you more light.

I don´t think so. Where are all the battery powered LED lights with newest
technology LEDs and well engineered optics? I just know stupid pocket
torches with inappropriate optics (for road riding) and inefficient
electronics.

> Now, if I was
>touring, or going to be places without access to electricity for long
>stretches, then I'd run the dynamo.

How do you handle your usual dayly ways (shopping, visiting friends, etc.)
in regard of lights? Fidling with the lights 5 times per day?

>The high-end luxury hybrid commuter is a product desperately seeking a
>market.

Fully equipped hybrids (in the 750-2000 Euro price range) are a big market
here in germany. They are at least as important as racing bikes now. On
the road lower-end hybrids (equipped with Alivio to Deore or 7-speed
hub-gears) are dominant.

Every morning I see the mayor of my city riding the 3 km to his office in
the town hall on his hybrid...

> Trek lost a LOT of money trying that.

Trek owns the german manufacturer Diamant - and they more or less only
make hybrids. I don't think they are loosing money.

>I remember seeing Trek L200s
>being blown out for $350. Bike shops aren't going to play that game again.

It might take a few years until people (and especially city planners) in
the US recognise, that it is better to overcome the old strategy of
separating habitation, work and shopping so much.

Andreas
 
Gooserider wrote:

> Will it beat the DiNotte 200L? The NiteRider Minewt? I'm sure Frank
> Krygowski will chime in---but more lumens are better. The only case in which
> dynamo lights would be superior, in my mind, is touring. Otherwise, a good
> LED rechargeable system is going to give you more light. Now, if I was
> touring, or going to be places without access to electricity for long
> stretches, then I'd run the dynamo.

The problem with most of the dynamo lights is they are a _big_
compromise in terms of optics. They illuminate a very limited area very
well, but don't have sufficient peripheral illumination. They do the
best they can with the limited available power from the dynamo.

I was pleased to see the SolidLights 1203D
("http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php") which appears to be
the first dynamo LED light with sufficient power, and optics which
provide an optimal beam for cycling.

For touring, if you plan to to long amounts of night riding then I guess
a dynamo light is a good idea, but most touring is daytime riding. Since
you have to carry a flashlight anyway then you may as well get a better
light that can serve two purposes.

I'd be more interested in a commute bicycle with a 3W Cree LED light (or
two for the Son hub dynamo), than a touring set-up.
 
"Andreas Oehler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:38:43 -0400, Gooserider:
>
>>>> $1900 Breezer Finesse. You're welcome.
>>>
>>> $1900 and no chain guard? Fail.
>>
>>. Crappy light
>
> You don't know, what you are talking about. The Lumtec Fly IQ used here is
> the brightest and best-shaped light for hub dynamos you can find. Will
> beat most 20 W halogen lights!
>
> Andreas
Your comment stimulated me to look at the B&M site. Looks like a really
great light. I might want to replace my Schmidt E6 and B&M Lumotec N Plus
halogen lights with this LED light depending on the price.

Do you know anything about when and where I could buy one of these lights.
I live in the U.S.A.. Searching the B&M site and Peter White's site didn't
help answer this question.

BobT
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Andreas Oehler <[email protected]> wrote:

> It might take a few years until people (and especially city planners)
> in the US recognise, that it is better to overcome the old strategy
> of separating habitation, work and shopping so much.

Good luck with that. 60-100 km "commutes" are not that unusual here in
the US.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
SMS <[email protected]> wrote:

> The problem with most of the dynamo lights is they are a _big_
> compromise in terms of optics. They illuminate a very limited area
> very well, but don't have sufficient peripheral illumination. They do
> the best they can with the limited available power from the dynamo.

You keep saying that over and over and over, as if mere repetition
constitutes proof. But your claim is simple ********. It would seem
from your many posts that you ought to be seeing an ophthalmologist
about your vision problem.
 
On Sep 30, 3:22 am, [email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> SMS <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>
> > Don Wiss wrote:
> >> On Sat, 29 Sep 2007, [email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote:
>
> >>> Thank you, I will. At least, the mechanised/motorized ones
> >>> that slide out like a CD player tray. I also like to make
> >>> fun of electric toothbrushes, electric backscratchers,
> >>> electric card shufflers, etc.
>
> >> Actually electric toothbrushes can be useful as they generally will do a
> >> better job then you can do by hand. One thing that is useless, like the
> >> other two you list, is electric can openers. And then maybe electric
> >> knives, though I've never used one.
>
> >> Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).
>
> > Electric knives are useful when cutting up things like turkeys or large
> > roasts. Also good for cutting homemade bread without destroying the loaf.
>
> It seems you don't know how to sharpen a kitchen carving knife,
> nor the cooling stage at which to carve or cut cooked stuff.
> It's an ancient, time-honoured skill which predates electric
> gadgetry.
>
Nah, electric knives are the bomb! And I own several fancy sharpening
stones and knives which you can literally shave with. The electric
knife is good for filleting fish, carving up whole salamis, and
slicing hams. It's for folks that want a deli slicer, but won't use it
enough. Thrift stores always have one for $2 or so.
 
Tim McNamara wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Andreas Oehler <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> It might take a few years until people (and especially city planners)
>> in the US recognise, that it is better to overcome the old strategy
>> of separating habitation, work and shopping so much.
>
> Good luck with that. 60-100 km "commutes" are not that unusual here in
> the US.

The problem is more that you can't plan your life around one company
that will stay in the same place forever. I've worked for companies that
have moved five times in the five years I've worked for them. You can't
move every time your job changes or your company moves, and with two-job
couples it's even more difficult. It complicates things even more with
the vast disparities in quality of life and quality of schools in
different communities, plus in California you have a tax code that
discourages people from moving close to their jobs because you lose your
Prop. 13 tax protection every time you move.

What would work better is to spend more on infrastructure for
alternative means of personal transportation, or combinations of
public/personal transit. Bicycle/train commutes are popular where I
live. A small investment in improved bicycle routes would encourage more
cycle commuting, which many people see as too dangerous.

If city bikes could at least get people to ride 1 mile to the store for
a gallon of milk, rather than driving, it would be a big accomplishment.
But this isn't going to happen with $700 city bikes. It'll happen when
the city bike is the default mass market bicycle like in the Netherlands
and China, and in much of Japan.

The city planners, in many cases, are owned lock, stock, and barrel by
developers. They'll advocate high-density housing because it's so
profitable for the developers, but they have no interest in advocating
for transit, retail, schools, parks, etc., to serve these developments.
Where I live, we defeated two condo complex rezoning attempts because
the developers had no plans at all, other than to sell the units then
get out of town. One councilwoman, owned by the building trade unions,
was proud because she had convinced the developer to provide bus passes
to the future residents for one year. Later this year, she was
instrumental in drastically cutting bus service to our city, proclaiming
in her usual idiocy, 'the important thing is that people won't be seeing
half-empty buses on the roads anymore.'

Too many people have been brainwashed by the developers and certain
environmental organizations to accept the buzz words of "smart growth,"
"mixed-use," etc., without making even the slightest effort to
understand the implications. They actually believe that if you allow a
developer to build high-density housing that somehow existing green
space in other places will be safe from development. Very naive.
 
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