Doping In The Peloton



Lab_Rat

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May 3, 2002
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Well, this posting is actually a result of Less'go's (New Thread Anybody) post.

As an avid cycling fan (funny that), I find it amazing that there are so many young pro's suffering heart attacks. What is more amazing, is that so often, the cause of death is stated as "Natural". So how many people do you know, below the age of 40, with excellent fitness, that die of heart attacks. So the question that I always have in my head, that I now put to you, is. . .

1.) Is the strain put on the heart during cycling actually harmful to the heart due to the extremes and frequency of going to the max; or

2.) Is there almost a blanket usage of performance enhancers such as EPO across the peloton and practically everyone is using them, but only those who are less scientific and overdo the dosage get caught.

What do you think?:eek:
 
Hmmmm, sounds like a good question, unfortunately I'd never given it any thought before, but hey, no time like the present.

I have had just one friend die of a heart attack, at age 23. But I believe she had prior physical problems, so I cannot say she was in excellent health.

I have always been under the impression that a healthy heart, especially one belonging to a well-trained athlete, is no more likely to give out from heavy use than any other muscle. But I may be worng.

In any case the use of doping substances must be a contributing factor. Can't be good. There you have it in a nutshell, my very official and probably quite uninteresting opinion. But hey, you did ask for it.

Sara
 
It is not good to generalise but I do think that there has to be something causing all these 'natural deaths'.
Whether it's because this sport has become so dificult that coronary failure is to be expected or there is indeed doping in the peleton, is anyones guess.
Elsewhere on this site, I have posted acturial statistics of coronary-cardio failure in male adults, from the 1st world, in the age bracket 20-35 (statistically 1/5000 deaths in men between the ages 20-35 is due to heart disease : 80% of the 1/5000 deaths is caused by smoking and obesity induced heart failure, the remaining 20% of the 1/5000 deaths is down to genetic hereditary predisposition to heart failure).
In the professional ranks, neither obesity/smoking would apply to
in the cases where coronary failure has been the cause of death.
Therefore, are we assume that every cycling fatality due to heart failure is becasue they (the cyclists) are genetically predisposed
to heart failure ?
given the rate of medical checks, I don't think that a cyclist would be allowed to cycle professionally, if there were irregularities.
It's up to people to decide what they think but for me, I have to say that I think that there is something going on in the sport that's causing these untimely deaths.

I know of only one person between the ages of 20-40 who has died of heart failure in my circle of friends/acquantances/contacts.
This was due to the person having a genetic/hereditary coronary
problem.
 
You can over train and you can strain your heart , unfortuntley some congenital problems can´t be diagnosed except by autopsy , and not many team doctors are that de(a)dicated .
 
Originally posted by el Inglés
You can over train and you can strain your heart , unfortuntley some congenital problems can´t be diagnosed except by autopsy , and not many team doctors are that de(a)dicated .

It's a valid point that you make !
I can't disagree with it !
 
I believe that the french version is better as some of the meaning is lost in the translation. I have been looking for a copy of it.
 
ahter reading the article in outside magazine on performance enhancing drugs, I too decided to give it a try.

I started a course of HGH and epo about two months ago. it is fantastic i can ride farther faster and need almost zero recovery time from one day to the next.

I highly recommend it. while it is expensive you get way more bang for your buck than spending the money on some lightweight carbon part. and you get tangible measurable cycling improvements.
 
This sport is trying to get rid of people that use drugs.

I think you should be ashamed of yourself of admitting that you're even taking the stuff.

I do hope you're a competitive cyclist and someone shops you to the authorities. Because I would you could be sure of that.
 
Originally posted by ewitz
ahter reading the article in outside magazine on performance enhancing drugs, I too decided to give it a try.

I started a course of HGH and epo about two months ago. it is fantastic i can ride farther faster and need almost zero recovery time from one day to the next.

I highly recommend it. while it is expensive you get way more bang for your buck than spending the money on some lightweight carbon part. and you get tangible measurable cycling improvements.

Either this message is a windup or else you're very foolish using this stuff.
You don't need drugs to cycle, my friend.
 
Originally posted by ewitz
ahter reading the article in outside magazine on performance enhancing drugs, I too decided to give it a try.

I started a course of HGH and epo about two months ago. it is fantastic i can ride farther faster and need almost zero recovery time from one day to the next.

I highly recommend it. while it is expensive you get way more bang for your buck than spending the money on some lightweight carbon part. and you get tangible measurable cycling improvements.

And for excitement in your free time you like to play Russian Roulette. :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by ewitz
ahter reading the article in outside magazine on performance enhancing drugs, I too decided to give it a try.

I started a course of HGH and epo about two months ago. it is fantastic i can ride farther faster and need almost zero recovery time from one day to the next.

I highly recommend it. while it is expensive you get way more bang for your buck than spending the money on some lightweight carbon part. and you get tangible measurable cycling improvements.

Wow! I just saw some pigs flying past my window.:eek:
 
Originally posted by ewitz
ahter reading the article in outside magazine on performance enhancing drugs, I too decided to give it a try.

I started a course of HGH and epo about two months ago. it is fantastic i can ride farther faster and need almost zero recovery time from one day to the next.

I highly recommend it. while it is expensive you get way more bang for your buck than spending the money on some lightweight carbon part. and you get tangible measurable cycling improvements.

I think I'll give it a try, I'm sure HGH will really help me get in top form, keep my body pure, mean and clean, and just thinking of the long-term health benefits gets me really psyched up. Not to mention all that money I have to burn...

Should really help me when toting home the groceries....
 
Yeah, you could get the groceries home at an average spd of 35mph everyday. Just don't go to sleep if your resting HR is less then 150.

I would love to see what the performance enhancement of EPO is, but alas, I like my life a little too much to take such a high risk. I'll try anything once, well maybe not everything. I'm afraid, as intriguing as it is, I'll skip the EPO experiment.

I choose, life.
 
Originally posted by Lab_Rat
Well, this posting is actually a result of Less'go's (New Thread Anybody) post.

As an avid cycling fan (funny that), I find it amazing that there are so many young pro's suffering heart attacks. What is more amazing, is that so often, the cause of death is stated as "Natural". So how many people do you know, below the age of 40, with excellent fitness, that die of heart attacks. So the question that I always have in my head, that I now put to you, is. . .

1.) Is the strain put on the heart during cycling actually harmful to the heart due to the extremes and frequency of going to the max; or

2.) Is there almost a blanket usage of performance enhancers such as EPO across the peloton and practically everyone is using them, but only those who are less scientific and overdo the dosage get caught.

What do you think?:eek:

It's a baffling situation. I do wonder though, if there isn't some confusion brought about by the terms "heart attack", "heart failure", "cardiac event", etc.

It seems that whenever the heart is mentioned in the cause of death, most people assume that means a heart attack. From what I can find, and I'm sure there are exceptions, the term "heart attack" refers to a specific condition usually the result of a blockage to a vessel that feeds the heart, (coronary artery).

Doctors seem to love to have special, complex terms for every medical condition and whoever makes those decisions decided to use the term "myocardial infarction", often shortened to "M.I." to describe a heart attack. "Myocardium" is heart muscle and "infarction" is from some Latin term, "infarcire", which means death. Perhaps they get extra points for more syllables?

Anyway, all the term means is death of the heart muscle but it seems that in medical lingo, the death must come about from a restriction of blood supply to the heart muscle. Not the blood that fills the cavities of the heart which it then squirts about when it beats but the blood in the arteries that feed the heart itself.

I have heard that severe coronary artery spasms can actually restrict blood enough to cause a heart attack but I'm not sure if exercise or over-training can cause such a spasm.

Without knowing more about it, the only things I can think of that might cause an apparently healthy, very active, young adult to suddenly die of a heart attack would be a diet tremendously rich in fats and cholesterol, an acute sensitivity to the plaques that these compounds can form or an emboli (air bubble) or thrombus (solid object that blocks a blood vessel), such as a blood clot.

EPO thickens the blood by causing the body to produce extra red blood cells which carry oxygen through the circulatory system. This can certainly put a strain on the heart. Strained muscles tend to lose their ability to produce power if not allowed to recover which might lead to a reduction in blood flow to the heart itself which would, of course, compound the already strained condition. My best guess is that this would be termed "heart failure". The thicker blood might also be more inclined to form clots which could block coronary ateries so it, among other drugs could cause the problem but I wouldn't expect the fatal event to occur while resting in a motel room as happened in one recent situation.

It seems the pro cycling community is fairly tight-lipped about the specifics of such deaths which kind of raises suspicions about drug use.
 
There are other ways to get increased red blood cells I believe, Altitude training for example.

Given that many of these athletes must be getting near their own limits of endurance maybe its just a combination of things. working at close to VO2 max for long periods can't be good for you; and where there may be some that are genetically able to handle it there are bound to be others that are pushing their luck. to tarnish them all with the thought that it must be due to drugs is out of order IMHO. It smacks of the opinion that if you won you must be on something.

There are not many things that athletes do to themselves that compare with a multiday tour. Track athletes for example peak for a competition maybe lasting 10 seconds, then its time to go through the cycle of training for the next competition.

I guess the closest would be something like the Ironman or marathons but even they are over in a relatively short time.

I've watched the peleton go up the Col du Tourmalet and been in awe, ive also watched a poor wretch in tears as he was swept up by the broom waggon, I swear he got the biggest cheer of the day, everyone was clapping for him and shouting encouragement.

I rode the tourmalet the next day and was in a pretty poor state at the top I can't even imagine doing the pace and distance that these guys manage.

Regards

Steve D
 
Originally posted by sdorrity
There are other ways to get increased red blood cells I believe, Altitude training for example.

Given that many of these athletes must be getting near their own limits of endurance maybe its just a combination of things. working at close to VO2 max for long periods can't be good for you; and where there may be some that are genetically able to handle it there are bound to be others that are pushing their luck. to tarnish them all with the thought that it must be due to drugs is out of order IMHO. It smacks of the opinion that if you won you must be on something.

...(snip)...

Regards

Steve D


I didn't mean to imply that if someone is winning they must be doping. I don't feel that way at all, quite the opposite. In fact, I'm more of the opinion that while there have been numerous doping scandals in cycling, the ones doping aren't necessarily the ones winning. I think the advantages provided by such substance abuse are largely over-emphasized.

As far as increasing the number of red blood cells through altitude training, etc., certainly this works but it's a natural process and isn't likely to leave you with blood so thick that the heart can't pump it efficiently.

My intent was to respond to the questionable deaths listed as "natural" of at least three pro cyclists in recent months. It seems totally unnatural to expect people in such amazing physical condition to simply die, often while relaxing.

Lastly, if you can ride the Tourmalet at all, I'm envious of you. Not that I've had the chance to try but the local mountains I ride are bumps on a pickle in comparison and still leave me struggling. Something like the Tore-my-legs-off would also rip out my lungs, buckle my knees and burst my heart like a soap bubble.

:)
 
Originally posted by Beastt
I didn't mean to imply that if someone is winning they must be doping. I don't feel that way at all, quite the opposite. In fact, I'm more of the opinion that while there have been numerous doping scandals in cycling, the ones doping aren't necessarily the ones winning. I think the advantages provided by such substance abuse are largely over-emphasized.

As far as increasing the number of red blood cells through altitude training, etc., certainly this works but it's a natural process and isn't likely to leave you with blood so thick that the heart can't pump it efficiently.

My intent was to respond to the questionable deaths listed as "natural" of at least three pro cyclists in recent months. It seems totally unnatural to expect people in such amazing physical condition to simply die, often while relaxing.

Lastly, if you can ride the Tourmalet at all, I'm envious of you. Not that I've had the chance to try but the local mountains I ride are bumps on a pickle in comparison and still leave me struggling. Something like the Tore-my-legs-off would also rip out my lungs, buckle my knees and burst my heart like a soap bubble.

:)

I've got to agree with your point : there has to be something causing very,very fit men to die so young.
And I'm sorry to say but I really do think that the peleton is
drug fuelled.
It kills me to say this but when I see them all going faster and faster : going faster than they did in era when we know EPO
was widely used (1990's), it makes me very cynical as to how they can perform like that if they're all supposed to be clean.
I would hate to see our sport go the way of athletics where
every new record or achievement is viewed with cynicism.

As regards the Tourmalet - it's a beast of a climb.
Crawled up it many years ago.
A couple of other juicy ones are Col de Montgenevre and the Cormet de Roseland !
Tough, tough climbs.
 
There are going to be people that use drugs but I don't think that we have found the limits of human performance yet.

I think that several factors are pushing the limits.

we are better able to find and encourage gifted athletes (the Australian system ia a good example).

we have finally realized that we are all different and some are better at things than others, training can only improve one so far it takes someone special to be a world champion and its all got to be there Physiologically and Psychologically and the scouts and coaches are better at finding them.

science is better at identifying the traits and characteristics that make a champion in a particular field and finding a program to maximize their potential

Mix that with good mental attitude and records will be broken.

I follow kayaking as well during a slalom the british world champion was beaten by a german that simply came up to wish him luck and mention that gate 13 was a b*sta*rd, The british paddler wiped out gate thirteen and got bronze.

A few years ago someone discovered that if they could previsualize a course, in skiing for example they could knock seconds off their time, pretty soon everyone is doing it and records were broken.

As for the deaths its possible that the very traits that make a world class cyclist also predispose him to cardiac problems. Remember we are talking about a very tiny percentage of the polulation that are capable of performing at this level.

JMTW

Steve D


Originally posted by limerickman
I've got to agree with your point : there has to be something causing very,very fit men to die so young.
And I'm sorry to say but I really do think that the peleton is
drug fuelled.
It kills me to say this but when I see them all going faster and faster : going faster than they did in era when we know EPO
was widely used (1990's), it makes me very cynical as to how they can perform like that if they're all supposed to be clean.
I would hate to see our sport go the way of athletics where
every new record or achievement is viewed with cynicism.

As regards the Tourmalet - it's a beast of a climb.
Crawled up it many years ago.
A couple of other juicy ones are Col de Montgenevre and the Cormet de Roseland !
Tough, tough climbs.