Echoes of Magilla



"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>>> I gotta tell you Erin that there were guys out there that worked a lot
>>> harder than you did and just didn't have the genetic tools to begin
>>> with.

>>
>> Tom,
>>
>> I know this specific statement was not the overall point you were trying
>> to make, but there were probably few, very very few people who have
>> worked harder in cycling than Erin did in the peak 5 or 6 years of his
>> career.

>
> Well, maybe that didn't come out right. But there WERE a lot of people
> that worked hard, no doubt much harder than Erin, but just didn't have the
> tools to come anywhere near Erin or Marty and their like. You just never
> see them because like Fast Freddy, they never go anywhere.
>


Trying to claim a title of the Hardest Working Cyclist is about like trying
to prove a negative. I saw Erin rise from a raw talent as a junior and as an
ignorant, undisciplined first year senior. He had the good fortune of being
guided (sometimes roughly, but guided nonetheless) by people like Roger
Young, Roger's father Clair, Dan Vogt, and Curt Harnett. They helped Erin
develop as a person and an adult as much as a cyclist. Erin became the Fed's
kilo rider, but there wasn't a kilo coach to help Erin specialize. Not only
did Erin put in more physical work than anyone else, he had to become self
coached. The Feds were there as support, but Erin had to figure out things
for himself for much of his career. While other riders had coaches and
sports scientists to make their plans, Erin read the books himself to
develop his own plans. Erin dedicated every aspect of his life to becoming a
faster rider for the better part of a decade.

Erin is an intense individual whose emotions get the best of him on a number
of occasions, but you always knew where he was coming from: he was trying
his damnedest to be the best kilo rider in the world, and if you were in his
way or weren't in his camp you could possibly find yourself on the receiving
end of a verbal lashing. Erin at times could be either inspirational or a
jerk.

Once Erin found his primary goal in cycling, he focused on the kilo to a
degree I have not seen surpassed by anyone. I did not spend much time at all
around Lance, but everything I know indicates to me that they are similarly
intense, passionate, and driven to their particular objectives. It's just
that Erin chose an event that is not a glamourous one and his efforts were
rewarded with but a minute fraction of what Lance or Nothstein have earned
financially. I believe Erin did as much with his talents as he possibly
could and should be considered a 'failure' for never winning a gold medal
about as much as Shane Kelly (Aussie three time world kilo champ) would be
for never winning Olympic gold, which is to say not at all.
 
"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:tNlBd.12227$c%.11996@okepread05...
>>
>> "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>>> I gotta tell you Erin that there were guys out there that worked a lot
>>> harder than you did and just didn't have the genetic tools to begin
>>> with.

>>
>> Tom,
>>
>> I know this specific statement was not the overall point you were trying
>> to make, but there were probably few, very very few people who have
>> worked harder in cycling than Erin did in the peak 5 or 6 years of his
>> career.

>
> Well, maybe that didn't come out right. But there WERE a lot of people
> that worked hard, no doubt much harder than Erin, but just didn't have the
> tools to come anywhere near Erin or Marty and their like. You just never
> see them because like Fast Freddy, they never go anywhere.


Bollocks.

Someone who never gets anywhere will not be a full-time kilo rider. They do
not have enough time to work 'much harder than Erin'.

Peter
 
>Well, maybe that didn't come out right. But there WERE a lot of people that
>worked hard, no doubt much harder than Erin, but just didn't have the tools
>to come anywhere near Erin or Marty and their like. You just never see them
>because like Fast Freddy, they never go anywhere.


I don't think that anyone can quantify objectively how hard a cyclist (or any
athlete) puts into their training. I did have a couple of experiences watching
Mr. Hartwell in his kilo preparation.

Once at the Ft. Lauderdale velodrome Hartwell was training for the Pan Am Games
in Argentina. I was there with two other officials to time his track record
attempt. It was sometime in March and on this particular day the wind was
gusting extraordinarly hard. Whether he was going to even attempt to ride was
questionable as he was suffering from the flu and had an abscess tooth which
necessitated antibiotics. Personally, I thought there was no way he could get
off a decent effort as he was coughing incessantly while on the start line.

Incredibly, Hartwell opted for some heavy duty spoked training wheels to make
his effort that much harder. Into, the brutal headwind on the homestretch
Hartwell crunched off the line and recorded a 14.2 half lap split and rode just
under 1.08.

The other time I watched Erin was in Colorado Springs. After doing an interval
workout he passed out.

I've been around the sport for quite a few years. Whenever I hear somebody
bring up the topic about hard training cyclists he is one of the first that
comes to mind.

Larry D
 
In article <sFDBd.12648$c%.2957@okepread05>,
"Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > Very interesting article. Thanks for the link. I especially liked two of
> > his quotes .
> >
> > People do not lack strength, they lack will.character is will in action.
> >

>
> Bobby Knight said something similar:
>
> "Most people have the will to win, few have the will to prepare to win."


And then he threw a chair at the listener.

--
tanx,
Howard

Butter is love.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 
"Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:yAHBd.12664$c%.3532@okepread05...
>
> "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> I gotta tell you Erin that there were guys out there that worked a lot
>>>> harder than you did and just didn't have the genetic tools to begin
>>>> with.
>>>
>>> Tom,
>>>
>>> I know this specific statement was not the overall point you were trying
>>> to make, but there were probably few, very very few people who have
>>> worked harder in cycling than Erin did in the peak 5 or 6 years of his
>>> career.

>>
>> Well, maybe that didn't come out right. But there WERE a lot of people
>> that worked hard, no doubt much harder than Erin, but just didn't have
>> the tools to come anywhere near Erin or Marty and their like. You just
>> never see them because like Fast Freddy, they never go anywhere.
>>

>
> Trying to claim a title of the Hardest Working Cyclist is about like
> trying to prove a negative.


I agree. But it seems pretty egotistical of Erin who performed spectacularly
over many years to snivel about not doing better.

> I saw Erin rise from a raw talent as a junior and as an ignorant,
> undisciplined first year senior. He had the good fortune of being guided
> (sometimes roughly, but guided nonetheless) by people like Roger Young,
> Roger's father Clair, Dan Vogt, and Curt Harnett. They helped Erin develop
> as a person and an adult as much as a cyclist. Erin became the Fed's kilo
> rider, but there wasn't a kilo coach to help Erin specialize. Not only did
> Erin put in more physical work than anyone else, he had to become self
> coached.


Well, maybe Erin is on of those people I was thinking about whose work ethic
alone gives them more success than their physical abilities would suggest.

In any case, Erin had a career that 99.99% of track riders would have
considered historic. It seems a shame that he would think less of his
accomplishments than the rest of us.
 
Tom Kunich wrote:
> "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:yAHBd.12664$c%.3532@okepread05...
> >
> > "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>>
> >>>> I gotta tell you Erin that there were guys out there that worked

a lot
> >>>> harder than you did and just didn't have the genetic tools to

begin
> >>>> with.
> >>>
> >>> Tom,
> >>>
> >>> I know this specific statement was not the overall point you were

trying
> >>> to make, but there were probably few, very very few people who

have
> >>> worked harder in cycling than Erin did in the peak 5 or 6 years

of his
> >>> career.
> >>
> >> Well, maybe that didn't come out right. But there WERE a lot of

people
> >> that worked hard, no doubt much harder than Erin, but just didn't

have
> >> the tools to come anywhere near Erin or Marty and their like. You

just
> >> never see them because like Fast Freddy, they never go anywhere.
> >>

> >
> > Trying to claim a title of the Hardest Working Cyclist is about

like
> > trying to prove a negative.

>
> I agree. But it seems pretty egotistical of Erin who performed

spectacularly
> over many years to snivel about not doing better.
>
> > I saw Erin rise from a raw talent as a junior and as an ignorant,
> > undisciplined first year senior. He had the good fortune of being

guided
> > (sometimes roughly, but guided nonetheless) by people like Roger

Young,
> > Roger's father Clair, Dan Vogt, and Curt Harnett. They helped Erin

develop
> > as a person and an adult as much as a cyclist. Erin became the

Fed's kilo
> > rider, but there wasn't a kilo coach to help Erin specialize. Not

only did
> > Erin put in more physical work than anyone else, he had to become

self
> > coached.

>
> Well, maybe Erin is on of those people I was thinking about whose

work ethic
> alone gives them more success than their physical abilities would

suggest.
>
> In any case, Erin had a career that 99.99% of track riders would have


> considered historic. It seems a shame that he would think less of his


> accomplishments than the rest of us.



Damn, I go away for a day and all hell breaks loose! Let me first state
that after re-reading my original post, I believe I came across the
wrong way regarding my perception of my results throughout the years.

A little history. At seven years old, I watched Bruce Jenner win the
1976 Olympic Decathlon. It was at this exact point I decided I wanted
to be Olympic Champion and I turned around to my Mom and told her I was
going to win Gold someday. From that day on, I was single-mindedly
dedicated to meeting that objective.

So, to come up two-tenths short in Atlanta after 20 years of workin
towards that goal, I was a little disappointed, but more than aware of
the magnitude of that result in the scope of international sport.

Nevertheless, I am a different person because of my results and the
work it required to attain them. I do not take my accomplishments
lightly and in no way feel that I was a failure for not having "won it
all."

Throughout my career, I've been humbled by this pursuit of excellence
and will continue to strive in helping others understand what's
required to take that next step in the hierarchy of world sport. It's a
tough road and one really only understandable by those whom walk it.

My original point was this: At the end of the day, the result is the
result. There are no "excuse asterisks" next to one's placing in
competition. You get what you put in. If an athlete wants to be a
champion, he or she must do whatever is possible (and I don't mean
drugs...) to meet that objective.

Again, invest in yourself, make the connections, push the limits of
training, maximize recovery, and buckle down for the ride of your life.
If you don't aim for the top rung, what's the point?

Last point: Marty Nothstein and I have been friends, team mates, and
room mates since 1990. Harking back to 1996, I vividly remember Marty's
declaration after his defeat in the match sprint final, that there was
no way he was going to not win in Sydney.

He was a changed man from that point on and I saw a determination that
I had never seen in any athlete up to that point. After that "loss" to
Feidler in 1996, he was intensely dedicated to the cause and got up
each day for four years with the intent to make sure he was the best
when it counted.

I was almost envious of his determination. I had had knee surgery in
1999 and was basically taken out of my game in the 1000m. I was still
enjoying the sport, particularly the road racing, but the goal of champ
in the "k" was looking unrealistic. Motivation, the real kind, was
fading.

I wondered if I had done enough over the years? Could I have done more?
Wasmy focus as tight as I thought it had been? Two-tenths back in '96
to Rousseau...

Well, back to Marty and Sydney. We all know what happened in 2000 and
I've never forgotten... Point is, don't ever put yourself in a position
to have to look back and wonder "what could have been." Just do it.
 
"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> I agree. But it seems pretty egotistical of Erin who performed
> spectacularly over many years to snivel about not doing better.
>
> Well, maybe Erin is on of those people I was thinking about whose work
> ethic alone gives them more success than their physical abilities would
> suggest.
>
> In any case, Erin had a career that 99.99% of track riders would have
> considered historic. It seems a shame that he would think less of his
> accomplishments than the rest of us.
>


I don't think that is the case. I think he is simply disappointed that he
did not quite achieve a goal he had set for himself.
 
"Carl Sundquist" wrote:
<interesting story snipped>

Was Rory O'Reilly's reign before your time, or did you overlap? I'd be
interested to hear your impression of his training/work ethic/etc. He has
always impressed me as a pretty intense and focused guy (with racing and
training) but I didn't know him when he was at his peak as a kilo guy. He
also fits the mold you described of Erin about being self-taught and
self-coached, e.g., he even built a home-made ergometer to do power testing
on himself (long before power-based training was popular).

Mark
 
"Mark Fennell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Was Rory O'Reilly's reign before your time, or did you overlap? I'd be
> interested to hear your impression of his training/work ethic/etc. He has
> always impressed me as a pretty intense and focused guy (with racing and
> training) but I didn't know him when he was at his peak as a kilo guy. He
> also fits the mold you described of Erin about being self-taught and
> self-coached, e.g., he even built a home-made ergometer to do power
> testing
> on himself (long before power-based training was popular).
>


Rory's career and my career only overlapped by a couple of years and where
they did, we seldom overlapped on training.

I first knew of Rory when I heard that he might lose his 1983 PanAm spot
because Whitehead won the natz that year, even though Rory had won PanAm
trials. Rory ended up riding the kilo in the end. Yes, he struck me as an
intense and focused guy, but his style was quiet confidence. As I'm sure you
know, Rory experimented with a lot of different bike equipment (I think Mike
Celmins worked with him on most of his bike ideas) and like Erin, he did
develop his own training programs. I'm not knocking his methods or logic,
but I do remember him saying that in 1984 he did most of his work in the gym
and only about 50 miles/week on the bike. He also didn't have a lot of the
financial backing and IIRC, had to subsidize his cycling by working as a
carpenter.

One thing many people aren't aware of is that Rory started out as a road
racer and won Somerville when it was still The Race to win.
 
On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 01:16:00 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>It takes a strong person to get things done by themselves. Some can do
>it---Mike Neel, George Mount, Jock Boyer, Sean Kelly come to mind. But not
>every raw talent has the strength that calls for. That's where good,
>realistic development programs come in. That's where the focus should be
>and hasn't been for too long. Can the culture at USAC change? Don't hold
>your breath. FWIW, thanks for giving it your best.


Sean Kelly in a list of U.S. riders and a wrap-up comment about the
USAC? Just wondering if that's a comfortable fit...

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
 
"Curtis L. Russell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 01:16:00 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>It takes a strong person to get things done by themselves. Some can do
>>it---Mike Neel, George Mount, Jock Boyer, Sean Kelly come to mind. But
>>not
>>every raw talent has the strength that calls for. That's where good,
>>realistic development programs come in. That's where the focus should be
>>and hasn't been for too long. Can the culture at USAC change? Don't hold
>>your breath. FWIW, thanks for giving it your best.

>
> Sean Kelly in a list of U.S. riders and a wrap-up comment about the
> USAC? Just wondering if that's a comfortable fit...


Two points:
1. It doesn't matter where you are. All of those riders had to have the
strength of character to go over to another culture, live and race with
little, if any, formal home country support.
2. I doubt if the Irish Cycling federation was of much help to Kelly when
breaking into Europe. IIRC, he was effectively amateur persona non grata
after the South African mis-adventure and Olympic banishment.
 
>Let me tell ya, I got second at the stinkin' Olympics in '96, third in
>'92, and continue to pay to this day for that "first loser's award."
>Whether American or European, it is about winning and unfortunately I
>will forever be disappointed that I was unable to climb that final step!>


Unfortunately, one of my earlier posts pertaining to hardworking cyclists
somehow didn't get posted. However, IMO there is absolutely no way that one
could think anything less of you being a champion irregardless of you not
pulling on a rainbow jersey or standing on the top podium at the Olympics.

Considering the elite company that you competed with (and nearly beat) makes
you amongst the worlds elite. A performance should stand on it's own accord,
not necessarily the results it garners.

Larry D
 

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