How can I avoid bonking?

[Pistol Pete]

I'm an experienced rider and I enjoy fast group rides and also a little bit of racing. Although I'm a relatively strong rider, I have a serious weakness that prevents me front entering long group rides and races: I bonk easily. I can go all out and feel good for about 3 hours, but then suddenly, I run of of energy. And I mean completely run out! A grandma could beat me up a hill! So I go from hero to zero very quickly. Not a good feeling. I've had this problem for ever so I've been trying to solve it, but to no avail. Of course, at first I thought I did not eat enough before and during the rides. So I started to eat more, especially when riding. Since I can't eat solid food while riding, I take plenty of gel and energy chews. It's helping but not solving the problem. I've been entering an amateur race every year for the last 5 years. It's a 66-mile ride in the mountains. Just to give you an idea, the winner always wins it in about 2 hours and 50 minutes, which is damn fast for such a tough terrain with no flat parts. Every year, I'm always keeping up with the front peloton for the first 45-50 miles, and then I bonk and barely can finish the race. Last year, I had to stop on the side of the road and rest on the grass because I barely had the energy to keep my vital organs going! I figure there is something wrong with me. My idea is that I'm much stronger mentally than physically. I can push myself to the limit to keep up with stronger athletes. On short races, I usually beat much stronger guys because I can tolerate pain more than they do. But I guess this takes a toll on my body.
I'm sure someone here must have experienced the same thing and could share with me some of the solutions he or she has found.

 

[danfoz]

If you can go all out for 3 hours then you are better off than 99% of people on the planet. Most folks have enough stored glycogen in muscles and liver to run at threshold for 90-120 minutes before needing to replenish. When the glycogen has run out you will be lucky to walk at half speed let alone ride. On the flipside if you aren't starting the ride on an empty stomach and energy gels/bars/drinks aren't doing the trick mid-ride I dunno what to say, that again makes you different than 99% of most folks. Try not waiting till you bonk to refuel - start downing those gels an hour or so after you start, even if you feel strong.

 

[alienator]

Well, if you're going all out for 3 hours and then bonking, you've obviously not been pacing yourself well. You don't go all out for 3 hours. You have to set a proper pace to finish the race.

 

[Pistol Pete]

Originally Posted by danfoz .

"If you can go all out for 3 hours then you are better off than 99% of people on the planet."

When I say "all out", I don't mean I'm above my threshold for 3 hours. I mean I'm always near threshold and there's no relaxing, not even going downhill. I'm attacking every hill and people are suffering, not just me.

 

[Pistol Pete]

Originally Posted by alienator .

"if you're going all out for 3 hours and then bonking, you've obviously not been pacing yourself well."

Hey, I'm no Alberto Contador. If I pace myself, I'll get dropped before I have time to realize it. But everyone is in the same boat here. Unless they all bluff, everyone is suffering. They only difference is, I bonk and they keep going.

 

[An old Guy]

Originally Posted by Pistol Pete .

When I say "all out", I don't mean I'm above my threshold for 3 hours. I mean I'm always near threshold and there's no relaxing, not even going downhill. I'm attacking every hill and people are suffering, not just me.

alienator is correct. You need to realize that some people are stronger than you are.

---

If you think it is food and hydration, eat more. 750 calories is more than sufficient for a race that short. I would eat that waiting for the start.

 

[Pistol Pete]

Originally Posted by An old Guy .

alienator is correct. You need to realize that some people are stronger than you are.

Well, if those guys are stronger than me, why can't they follow me up those hills? That's really the curious part. Lots of them can't follow my pace, and yet they outlast me on long rides.

 

[alienator]

Originally Posted by Pistol Pete .



Well, if those guys are stronger than me, why can't they follow me up those hills? That's really the curious part. Lots of them can't follow my pace, and yet they outlast me on long rides.

It's because they race smarter than you. See, to do well in a race, you have to get to the finish. Those guys that are finishing, know that and have a leg up on you. If you're consistently not finishing, then you're not learning from your mistakes. Simple.

 

[danfoz]

Bonking is running out or stored glycogen, nothing more, nothing less. The harder someone rides the more stored glucose is used as a fuel. The easier, the more stored fat is used as a fuel. It's not either/or and you don't need to run at or above threshold to zap your stores. Anything at race pace, pulling or wheel sucking, is going to burn through your stored glycogen to some degree. In the mountains where less is gained from drafting, even more is getting burned through. But maybe you do just need to suck more wheel in the early miles.

 

[Pistol Pete]

Originally Posted by alienator .


It's because they race smarter than you. See, to do well in a race, you have to get to the finish. Those guys that are finishing, know that and have a leg up on you. If you're consistently not finishing, then you're not learning from your mistakes. Simple.

OK, fair enough. But when we train together and we race to the top of a hill, I get to the top way before the second guy. Even on a flat sprint, rarely will I get beat. And they tell me they just couldn't go any faster and they're out of breathe while I'm still ready to go again. No one is saving energy here, believe me. It's as if those guys had 12-cylinder engines on cruise control with big tanks while and I have a 4-cylinder twin-turbo with a small tank. My question is, is there a way to change all this, either by changing my diet or my training program?

One last thing. None of us have a chance to win any of those races. Only a hand full of guys win races. The rest of us just do our best not to finish last. So if those guys are racing smart, it ain't working. They may get to the finish line fresh, but they sure are not winning any races. I don't think managing your race to finish 22nd is that smart. I may not finish the race, but I'm sure stirring things up for a while, and having fun doing it. My goal is to change something in my diet/training in order to be strong in the last part of the training ride/race and not to run out of gas before the end.

 

[Pistol Pete]

Originally Posted by danfoz .

"But maybe you do just need to suck more wheel in the early miles"

Danfoz, I think you may have hit the spot. I'm not a very disciplined rider. I like to show off by doing big pulls and getting to the top of hills first (and waiting for the others to catch me one the way down!). But since I have a small tank, I end up running out of gas. Even though I hate sucking wheels, it may be my best chance of finishing in one piece. But it's so fun to attack!

 

[jpr95]

I would think a better overall tactic would be to ride to finish, then improve on that, not see how far you can ride all out, then try to ride farther. It really sounds like you're pushing yourself too hard. Not being able to eat solid food is a problem, so maybe switch entirely to Gatorade instead of water. Gatorade has about 50 calories per 8 oz., so 1 qt. per hour will get you 200 calories per hour, about the minimum number of calories you should be taking in. More would probably be better if your stomach can handle it. Also, lots of small sips are better than infrequent large gulps.

 

[alienator]

Originally Posted by Pistol Pete .





Danfoz, I think you may have hit the spot. I'm not a very disciplined rider. I like to show off by doing big pulls and getting to the top of hills first (and waiting for the others to catch me one the way down!). But since I have a small tank, I end up running out of gas. Even though I hate sucking wheels, it may be my best chance of finishing in one piece. But it's so fun to attack!

Again, you're burning everything in your "tank" because you're spending too much of it. Beating someone to the top of one hill means very little if you can't beat them to the line at the end of the race. If the difference between getting to the finish is "finishing" 10th on a hill, then that's better than "finishing" first on a hill but running out of gas later and thus not finishing the race.

You need to address your issues in the "Cycling Training" sub-forum. There are many experience racers there as well as a few coaches.

 

[Sunny44]

It can also help to carbo load the night before any big ride. How many carbs I eat the night before a big ride can really prolong how long it is before I hit a wall!

 

[Myosmith]

For long rides I carry two water bottles, one filled with plain H2O and the other with a mixture of half sweetened green tea and half orange juice. During hard exertion your body shunts blood away from your digestive system and into your muscles. Absorbtion is greatly slowed so even "fast" digesting simple carbs can take longer than usual to hit the blood stream. You are far better off preventing a bonk than trying to fix it once the effects start to set in. I sip on my tea/juice mix every 15 minutes or so, drinking water in between. I have my energy bars as well and will eat a few bites every 60-90 minutes. Slamming your stomach with a big load of carbs all at once will either make you nauseated, or force your body to shunt blood back into your digestive system. Small amounts of food and carb drinks frequently is a better way to manage glucose and glycogen levels. By starting early, you are sparing glycogen which is difficult to replace on the run. If you burn for instance 2/3 ingested carbs and 1/3 glycogen (stored sugar from the muscles and liver) you will last approximately 3X longer than if you burn off all you glycogen and then try to fix the problem by downing 2-3 energy bars.

Energy bars and drinks should have a blend of simple and complex carbs to level out spikes in blood glucose. Maltodextrin is technically a complex carb but actually breaks down faster than fructose causing a rapid rise in blood sugar usually followed by an equally fast drop. Great if you need a burst of energy for a 30 minute finish, sucks if you are in the middle of 150 miles. Protein and fats also play a role in blood glucose management, but shouldn't be a major part of your mid-ride energy foods. Small amounts are fine, but they are more difficult to digest than carbs and can cause stomach upset or other even less pleasant GI problems.

If your energy levels are really difficult to control, see your physician and ask for a glucose tolerance test which will help determine how your body uses carbs. If problems are found a dietician with a sports background can help you out.

 

[An old Guy]

Originally Posted by Pistol Pete .

Well, if those guys are stronger than me, why can't they follow me up those hills? That's really the curious part. Lots of them can't follow my pace, and yet they outlast me on long rides.

You have a riding style that you prefer. That riding style does not let you finish where you want in training rides or in races.

You need to change your riding style or accept where you are finishing. Real simple.

 

[bgoetz]

Hydration, what you eat before the race, what you eat during the race, how you race, and how you train can all be factors. I think most have touched on the "how you race" issue, pretty much most of what I would have to say, you only have so many matches to burn.

The eating part is sort of trial and error, but I have a routine that I found works for my body and I stick to it. This involves some pastas and a moderate amount of lean protein and minimal acids the night before, along with plenty of water. The day of the race I eat as soon as I wake up, something like a bagel w/pb and some oatmeal and have a gator aid, and I continue to hydrate and eat small amounts of carbs like more bagels and p/b or a banana, maybe rice crispy treats, every hour or so all of the way up to about 30min before the race. The key is to get as much in as you can SLOWLY so you don't get to full and overwhelm your body with the digestion process. I DO NOT eat or drink dairy before a race, it does not agree with me. I take a bottle of gel with me, during the race and use it as needed, I also make sure I continue to hydrate, anything over 60 miles I try to also have something solid like a bar that I can take a bite of. There have been races where I don't even take a shot of gel and races where I need 2 or 3 shots and a bite of a bar, it all just depends on many factors (weather, intensity, etc.).

Now the training part, my question is do you train for that type of a distance? If you hope to do well during a 66 mile race, you need to be doing training rides of AT LEAST that long and not just one or two, as many as possible. You should try to stay on the bike the entire time, mixing in some higher intensity and eating/drinking like you would during a race.

 

[stevegreer]

Some really great advice here! Sorry for dragging out an older thread. Best piece of advice my dad gave me about riding is put in the miles first and the speed will come with time. In other words, build your stamina up first by logging lots of miles and then worry about the speed. Afterall, finishing in the back of the pack is better than not finishing at all.

 

[alienator]

Originally Posted by stevegreer .

Some really great advice here! Sorry for dragging out an older thread. Best piece of advice my dad gave me about riding is put in the miles first and the speed will come with time. In other words, build your stamina up first by logging lots of miles and then worry about the speed. Afterall, finishing in the back of the pack is better than not finishing at all.

Yup. If you don't finish, you can never win.

 

[stevegreer]

Exactly!