My Experience -> NYC to Baltimore with Adventure Cycling Maps

[jsirabella]

Hello One and All,

Just got back from Baltimore and thought it would be helpful for anyone to get my experience especially using the maps from Adventure Cycling.

I recently went to Boston not using these maps but instead using just good old route 1. I actually got to Boston in only two days, way ahead of schedule.

I started as the maps said getting out the Newark Penn Station exit and followed the directions street by street. At the end of the first day I made it to Norristown, PA but had a few experiences. First I went with a friend who wanted to use his Fuji training bike and he could not carry any cargo. I had all the cargo which made my Cannodale F400 hybrid weigh about 35 - 40lbs total.

The first day was going great with stops for lunch and dinner until on the way to Lambertville, River Road was under construction and we had to go through some alt route which added more mileage. Than we stopped at Route 63 for food and I wanted to call it a day at about 6pm. He wanted to keep going and it started to rain He than took a spill on the way while trying to cross railroad tracks. Thank god no injuries and finally found a hotel on Germantown Pike which took us about 10 miles off trail.

The next day was the killer!! Did not have time for Breakfast as we wanted to get back on trail and make it to the Schuykil trail. The trail was real nice but I found the route through Valley Forge to be real long and boring. I really wish they had an alt route for it. As we got out of Valley Forge heading for P (Pugh) town, I have to admit we started to hit some big hills. I did not consider myself weak but the hills around St. Peters, all the way to Reamstwon was tough, real tough. The first day I caught some tough hills around Linvale and Mountain Road but this was crazy. We were making such bad time we decided no lunch but a quick stop at a camp at Bowmans to catch some food and water.

At that point we looked at the map again and said we will never make Baltimore by end of day if we have to go to Mt Joy and cross there. We decided lets get on 272 and head for Lancaster and shoot down from there using 222. It was going great as 272 was so much easier, flat, and had big shoulders as did 222. We than went on to 324 which also had shouders and was not a busy road at all. Unfortunately the hills started again and even worse and worse until we got to the end of 324 which looked like it should meet with 372 where we were going to cross the Susquehanna.

At this point we asked for directions and a lady just gave us that look, like you do not know how bad things are going to get for you!! She gave us the directions with river road and such...this made us hit roads that were just huge steep, I had to get off the bike and start pushing. I could not believe the steepness near the Susquehanna. we finally hit 372 completely dead on the PA side going downhill across the river heading to 74 back on map. Still hitting some big hills, we were out of gas and doing more walking than riding. The sun was about to go down in a half hour and I am sure I am going to sleep in a corn field tonight.

Suddenly going down 74 I see an amish girl selling produce, I stop as I have nothing to loose. She gives us water in mason jars and I buy some cookies and some cans of coke. I ask do you know of any place to sleep and food. She and her 5 bros and sisters go back and tell me that Delta is down the road and there is the Peach Bottom Inn. We hit it as the sun was going down...it was a little shack but was a 5 star innn to me with a connected diner. My wife is sure the girl was a mirage and my daughter thinks she has been dead for 30 years and helps strangers on the road. Whatever she was, that little girl seemed like a savouir.

The next morning have a great breakfast in Delta and ask for their opinion which way to go. Took 136 which was kind of hilly but compared to yesterday was a joke which hit route 1. Route 1 was hilly by gun powder falls but again not as bad. Hit outskirts of Baltimore and as I got closer to Baltimore, lets just say I seemed to ride faster as the neighborhood started to look more war zone. Got to Pratt street and made it by 1pm and meet with my friend to work the convention for the weekend. Done, 260 miles later, which should have been less than 200 if stood on route 1 all the way. It was a great experience and achievement but I felt like I survived a small war. No matter how I explain to the people in the office they just will never understand how tough these hills were, when they think Central Park is hilly.

I must say overall the directions are "exact", street by street it is hard to get lost. While I do not consider myself a bike pro, I do ride alot and go to the gym often. I do not know how they expect the picture of that lady on the bike in section 2 to be doing these hills. PA was just so much tougher than I expected with all my gear. I do not know how far they expect these folks to get in a day?? I must also say they make you go throgh some pretty areas but they seem to love to put you on every hill and national park in the area. These roads are dead...I mean in some areas, no cars for what seemed like an hour and no stores or people. I do not know how they expect you to be hydrated when you do not pass a store for what can be hours on some roads. We joked that they want you to carry a 30lb jug of water!!

While I would have done the route different next time, I must say it was pretty and pushed me to my max. I basically did two centuries back to back and a bit more the last day. My biggest physical problems was my knee but not so bad and my ankle..again not bad. But the real killer on the last day was my butt like for Boston. It started to blister and chaff bad...I used the butter every day and thought I had a good seat but it was killing me and started to feel numb down under. It may be the spring stem I use to help with the bumps or my seat just stinks no matter what the shop says. It is an italian brass job but seems not to work. I am about to give up on it or get rid of the stem...any ideas or advice guys? On the other hand the bike held up like a champ!! Not a flat or problem at anytime, never took a spill or felt any worries on the decents in the rain. Great bike for the bucks!!

Well there you go guys, two tours later and now looking forward to next year and bigger action. This one definitely left some war scars but I am stronger for it. It may seem from my post I am dissing the Adventure Cycling maps...I am not but just giving you guys some heads up before you think these roads could be a piece of cake.

Best regards


-jfs

 

[philso]

it's the parts that suck that make the best memories.

get a leather saddle. they need to be pampered a bit(getting soaked and dried out too often not good), but they do provide total comfort after you've ridden them a bit.

make your friend(?) carry his own gear next time. or better yet, your's too(payback time).

keep on riding

 

[jsirabella]

You are right, it is the tough times we remember most with fond memories...I am sure I will be telling this story for years.

Maybe you are right about the leather saddle....I have to check if my saddle is leather...I think it is (???) What do you mean by pampered...is there a way I can work in the leather other than riding it.

Last time I carry cargo for anyone...I also think unless I am going for more than two or three days ... I will go with lighter bike and load, just buy clothes where I stay. I do not think I need to bring the Cannondale...I have a trek 5000 also I use for fast days...do you think it would be good for a tour??

-jfs

it's the parts that suck that make the best memories.

get a leather saddle. they need to be pampered a bit(getting soaked and dried out too often not good), but they do provide total comfort after you've ridden them a bit.

make your friend(?) carry his own gear next time. or better yet, your's too(payback time).

keep on riding

 

[philso]

there are basically 2 types of leather saddles. one type has leather covering a plastic inner saddle. as far as the ride goes, they are no different than plastic or fabric covered plastic. the classic type would be a brooks (or other maker). these provide the most comfortable ride i've ever had. when you get a new one, it'll look pretty d_mn uncomfortable, but in my experience, they have never been uncomfortable even from the get-go. but after a bit, they get so wonderful you'll never go back to plastic.

what i mean by "pampered" is that, unlike plastic, leather is organic. if you ride it in the rain, dry it in the sun, over and over, they'll eventually develop cracks and tears. put a baggie over it when riding in the rain, and give it a bit of mink oil or leather treatment once or so a year, and they'll last you many years.

i wouldn't try to break them in any other way than just riding. soaking them like you might do on heavy hiking boots and riding till it's dry wouldn't be good, i don't think.

any bike will get you from point a to point b, but that said, the trek 5000 isn't really suited to touring. check out the trek 520 and look at the specs and geometry to get an idea.

http://www2.trekbikes.com/Bikes/Specialty_Bikes/Touring/520/index.php

http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/05/cusa/cats/TO.html

also see: http://www.cyclingforums.com/t278316-giant-ocr-tourer-vs-specialized-sequoia-elite.html for some comments.

there are also many other threads that will give you plenty of info. there's also a reviews section at the top of the page as well as a search function just below that.

happy riding!http://www.bikenow.com.au/bikes/bikes2005/cannondale/t800.htm

 

[jsirabella]

I will definitely look into the brooks saddles...everyone seems to love them.

Do you think the difference in ride between a Cannondale F400 and the Trek 520 going to be big?

What do you think will be the differences? Pros and Cons...

Promise my last question...

-jfs

there are basically 2 types of leather saddles. one type has leather covering a plastic inner saddle. as far as the ride goes, they are no different than plastic or fabric covered plastic. the classic type would be a brooks (or other maker). these provide the most comfortable ride i've ever had. when you get a new one, it'll look pretty d_mn uncomfortable, but in my experience, they have never been uncomfortable even from the get-go. but after a bit, they get so wonderful you'll never go back to plastic.

what i mean by "pampered" is that, unlike plastic, leather is organic. if you ride it in the rain, dry it in the sun, over and over, they'll eventually develop cracks and tears. put a baggie over it when riding in the rain, and give it a bit of mink oil or leather treatment once or so a year, and they'll last you many years.

i wouldn't try to break them in any other way than just riding. soaking them like you might do on heavy hiking boots and riding till it's dry wouldn't be good, i don't think.

any bike will get you from point a to point b, but that said, the trek 5000 isn't really suited to touring. check out the trek 520 and look at the specs and geometry to get an idea.

http://www2.trekbikes.com/Bikes/Specialty_Bikes/Touring/520/index.php

http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/05/cusa/cats/TO.html

also see: http://www.cyclingforums.com/t278316-giant-ocr-tourer-vs-specialized-sequoia-elite.html for some comments.

there are also many other threads that will give you plenty of info. there's also a reviews section at the top of the page as well as a search function just below that.

happy riding!

 

[Trekker2017]

Hello One and All,

Just got back from Baltimore and thought it would be helpful for anyone to get my experience especially using the maps from Adventure Cycling.


-jfs

Having used the Adventure Cycling maps on my trips to Key West and Los Angeles from CT there was one thing that was an absolute.... somewhere on that map was the tallest and steepest climb they could find to send you over. That said, I still like them in conjunction with a standard Rand McNally road map. Between the two, you can always find the best route to travel.

 

[jsirabella]

Terkker, its you, the guy who helped me from day one with my first tip to Boston. Good to see you are still posting.

When I went to Boston I ditched all the Adventure Cycling Maps and just went up one which I really did not find bad at all. But when I went to Baltimore I used the maps and you are so right, the roads they took me through were great with no cars and scenic but they were so so hilly. There were points I was looking down upon the tree tops below me. PA just kicked my ass... I will not forget these war wounds....

Do you think if I had a bike other than the F400 like the Trek 520 or a Co-motion my life would be better on these short tours and much better on the long ones?

Good to hear from you.

-jfs

BTW, there is no way the lady on the bike in section two is doing these roads man...no way.

Having used the Adventure Cycling maps on my trips to Key West and Los Angeles from CT there was one thing that was an absolute.... somewhere on that map was the tallest and steepest climb they could find to send you over. That said, I still like them in conjunction with a standard Rand McNally road map. Between the two, you can always find the best route to travel.

 

[Trekker2017]

Terkker, its you, the guy who helped me from day one with my first tip to Boston. Good to see you are still posting.

When I went to Boston I ditched all the Adventure Cycling Maps and just went up one which I really did not find bad at all. But when I went to Baltimore I used the maps and you are so right, the roads they took me through were great with no cars and scenic but they were so so hilly. There were points I was looking down upon the tree tops below me. PA just kicked my ass... I will not forget these war wounds....

Do you think if I had a bike other than the F400 like the Trek 520 or a Co-motion my life would be better on these short tours and much better on the long ones?

Good to hear from you.

-jfs

BTW, there is no way the lady on the bike in section two is doing these roads man...no way.

My long tours have always been on a Trek 820. I opted for the mountain gears because of my weight (240) and the weight of my camping/camera gear. I have a new Cannondale R400 which I have been using just to cruise around the area (10-20 mile afternoon rides). I'm not sure I'd opt to use the Cannondale on any longer trips where I was packing camping gear. But that's probably because I'm so used to the Trek 820.

As far as the seat goes, I went with the Terry Vindicator. It reminded me of an old McCellan cavalry saddle. I figured those cavalry boys would have known something about bouncing along by the seat of their pants.

In Penn. did you cruise through the Deleware Water Gap? Adventure Cycling takes you across the river and back into New Jersey over one of the nastiest hill climbs you can tackle with a bike loaded with gear. The easier ride and more comfortable one was the road down the Penn. side of the river to Upper Back Eddy. I've taken it a couple of times now and can recommend the restaurants and campgrounds along the way.

Good luck on your next trip... once bitten it's hard to stop.

 

[jsirabella]

I took a look at the 820 and actually reminds me alot of my F400. I am not sure which bike is lighter and more comfort but your 820 does look very comfy.

I am going for a leather job...just too many people recommending me these type of seats. I will have decide on which.

As for my trip in Penn, I crossed three rivers, the first being the Delaware at New Hope, the Schkuil (??) at Valley Forge and the Susquehanna at route 372, really not sure of the town somehere by Delta PA. I had to use the NY Spur part of the map which went into the main part of the map connecting to section 3. New Hope crossing before and after were not bad but tough on Linvale road, the Schukyl crossing into Valley Forge before and after was a joke but crossing the Susquehanna was just so so tough. We decided by Bowmans not to go up to Mt. Joy and instead cut through Lancaster and do 324 - 372 and cross there. That area coming up to and crossing the Susquehanna was just not made for man. Until I reached 74 I was walking the bike about 1/2 the time. I never thought mountains like that existed, I think cars would have trouble. I really feltI reached the end of my gas but said it will happen if I have to walk it and I did....

Based on what you wrote I think they changed the directions...I was on the Penn side but kept going further SE until I hit Mt Joy. Even though I cut it short at Bowmans and headed down more direct route, it was killer. Also the area by St. Peters is really tough...they take you way up into the mountains...

-jfs

My long tours have always been on a Trek 820. I opted for the mountain gears because of my weight (240) and the weight of my camping/camera gear. I have a new Cannondale R400 which I have been using just to cruise around the area (10-20 mile afternoon rides). I'm not sure I'd opt to use the Cannondale on any longer trips where I was packing camping gear. But that's probably because I'm so used to the Trek 820.

As far as the seat goes, I went with the Terry Vindicator. It reminded me of an old McCellan cavalry saddle. I figured those cavalry boys would have known something about bouncing along by the seat of their pants.

In Penn. did you cruise through the Deleware Water Gap? Adventure Cycling takes you across the river and back into New Jersey over one of the nastiest hill climbs you can tackle with a bike loaded with gear. The easier ride and more comfortable one was the road down the Penn. side of the river to Upper Back Eddy. I've taken it a couple of times now and can recommend the restaurants and campgrounds along the way.

Good luck on your next trip... once bitten it's hard to stop.

 

[Trekker2017]

they take you way up into the mountains...

-jfs

Typical of American Cycling.

If you're going to head south again, I've found the route through the Deleware Water Gap on the Penn. side to be very comfortable. Rolling hills so you can make good time and excellent campgrounds. At Upper Back Eddy, you can cut back on a route that takes you around Philadelphia and partially through Valley Forge before heading south west through Amish country. I've ridden it several time and find it very bicycle friendly. Once when huffing up a small hill in Lancaster County, I was over taken by an Old Amish man in a horse and buggy who ask if I wanted a pull. I was told later on that this was quite the moment since most Amish don't like to deal with non-believers. I'll have to pull out my old maps. It's been a few years since I was able to get away for a long vacation on my bicycle.

Where do you intend to ride next?

 

[philso]

js - hi. hope you don't mind the initials, but i'm a lazy typer.

yes, there will be huge differences between the cannondale400 and trek 520.

there are several cannondale 400's. the adventure 400 is more or less a mtb. good points are long wheelbase, long chainstay and low center of gravity. low points are 26" wheels and fat tires, only 1 riding position: upright. on a mtb, figure about 15% - 20% less miles per day as opposed to road bike. only being able to ride into the wind in an upright position really sucks. on a road bike with drop bars, you can have more hand positions and be either up or down. much more comfortable and efficient. hold on, i only just noticed that the tires are 27". that would give you a few extra miles. if you should go with this bike for some reason, get skinnier slick tires. also this frame is aluminum, which gives a stiffer (read jarring) ride than steel.

the road warrior 400 has a steel frame, which would provide a nicer ride. unfortunately, the wheelbase and chainstays are short. you'll be running into handling problems under larger loads and likely be having heel clearance problems with many panniers.

as far as the cannondale t800 and t2000 touring models, they are essentially about the same as the trek 520. the only major difference be the ride provided the cannondale aluminum frames as opposed to the trek's cro-moly steel. most people feel that steel provides a much smoother ride.

here's another tourer to check out: http://www.fujibikes.com/2005/bikes.asp?id=22#
it has sti shifting as opposed to the bar-ends on the trek. it's also rather less expensive.

i see yu also mentioned a co-motion. big jump in the price tag there. along similar lines, maybe check out:
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/index.html
http://www.litespeed.com/bikes/2005/blueridge.aspx
http://www.ifbikes.com/frames2/steelindependence.shtml
http://www.bgcycles.com/blt.html
http://www.burley.com/products/road-bikes/default.aspx?p=Hudson&i=0

here's a page with lots of info and links:
http://www.faughnan.com/touringbike.html

it's a tough call on quality vs. price tag. if you're not too sure just how much you'll be getting into touring i'd suggest the fuji or trek. i think you'll get a decent ride. i think touring bikes make good daily bikes too. where they fall behind is racing because they're built heavier and are as nimble as a racing frame.
i could go on, but am a bit pressed for time .

 

[jsirabella]

Really not sure yet because I try to coordinate it with my work. I work conventions on some weekends so I always make it where I leave early enough to arrive one day before the convention starts for a rest period. This is what happened for Boston and Baltimore but I arrived a little too early in Boston and did not give myself enough rest for Baltimore.

Next year I will do Baltimore and Boston again but I think I will try and add two more or exchange one. There are conventions in Atlanta, Chicago, Ohio, Indy and Washington DC. I will have to do some calculation to see how far and the terrain to these areas. Atlanta would seem like the next logical choice so I am not sure, DC seems to be almost the same as going to Baltimore. I also travel to Japan and the West Coast and next year I want to pack up my bike and bring it to these areas and try some cycling.

When I went through Lancaster county and the city of Lancaster I was real suprised the condition of the city. It was much more Urban than I remember as a kid. I was also surprised at seeing Amish people/farms in areas I did not expect. That little girl with her farm surprised me and I am real surprised that Amish person spoke with you. When I was speaking to the Amish girl, the mother or father would not come next to me or my friend. They stood far off in the back just looking and making sure all was safe. I had the feeling they do not wish to get involved with strangers. I am not surprised if it was the idea of the girl to open up the food stand, not the parents as food seemed prepared by the kids.

I will probably on my next trip not use those maps again exclusive but do as you said a combination. I can see now everytime you see a Mt. ???, Mountain Side Road or a national park, it will get hilly so I may try more costal riding combined with more route riding. I find when you stay on route roads like route 1 or some other route, the roads are more rolling style and many more places to stop, eat and refuel. I noticed the more backwood the road the more hilly. It seems the city/state figures not many people in the area for this road so why level off the road, just throw the tar down. I and my friend had a discussion about that while riding.

Since we are on AC maps, the one thing I forgot to mention is when you sometimes follow the directions, you will find you will do this long winding road that 20 minutes later will connect to the road you were on earlier. This drove us nuts!! So if you just stood on the road you were on, you would have been done so much quicker. They should really add some (alt) routes depending on if you are looking to cover distance, scenery and based upon your ability. Have ability levels...beginner, average, above average, expert...

-jfs

Typical of American Cycling.

If you're going to head south again, I've found the route through the Deleware Water Gap on the Penn. side to be very comfortable. Rolling hills so you can make good time and excellent campgrounds. At Upper Back Eddy, you can cut back on a route that takes you around Philadelphia and partially through Valley Forge before heading south west through Amish country. I've ridden it several time and find it very bicycle friendly. Once when huffing up a small hill in Lancaster County, I was over taken by an Old Amish man in a horse and buggy who ask if I wanted a pull. I was told later on that this was quite the moment since most Amish don't like to deal with non-believers. I'll have to pull out my old maps. It's been a few years since I was able to get away for a long vacation on my bicycle.

Where do you intend to ride next?

 

[jsirabella]

On my Cannondale I did exchange the MTB tires with touring Infinity tires which are 28" I believe as the bike is at home now. I also changed the seat, added a Godzilla back rack and bought some cannondale panniers. I did not have any problems with it on my current tours but these were 2 and 3 day long trips. I found it comfortable but my butt just gave up on Day 3. I am worried if I had to go past Day 3, I would have been in big trouble.

The bike shop offered me this bike because I was really being confusing to them at the time. I wanted something to get around the city, can go fast and if I want it tour and can be used for touring. I can see why they picked this hybrid but as time has past now, I want to go with a more specialized bike. As now I have the Trek 5000 for speed and weight I still feel I will upgrade it as seems low end for its category.

As for the links you showed me I really like the LightSpeed. See guys on LightSpeed bikes, never knew if they were any good. Based on its look I think it can still haul some ass and be good at touring. I will more than likely never go into the camp ground style of touring and will always try and hotel it. The other bikes just seemed to much like tanks with wheels. The bikeshop where I bought my Trek said I may like the Trek Pilot as it can be used for touring with a couple rear panniers and when I road seemed it can move. I was looking at the comotion because the bike can split to make it easier to travel with by plane.

What do you think about the above??? I always feel the bike shops are pushing their inventory.

-jfs

js - hi. hope you don't mind the initials, but i'm a lazy typer.

yes, there will be huge differences between the cannondale400 and trek 520.

there are several cannondale 400's. the adventure 400 is more or less a mtb. good points are long wheelbase, long chainstay and low center of gravity. low points are 26" wheels and fat tires, only 1 riding position: upright. on a mtb, figure about 15% - 20% less miles per day as opposed to road bike. only being able to ride into the wind in an upright position really sucks. on a road bike with drop bars, you can have more hand positions and be either up or down. much more comfortable and efficient. hold on, i only just noticed that the tires are 27". that would give you a few extra miles. if you should go with this bike for some reason, get skinnier slick tires. also this frame is aluminum, which gives a stiffer (read jarring) ride than steel.

the road warrior 400 has a steel frame, which would provide a nicer ride. unfortunately, the wheelbase and chainstays are short. you'll be running into handling problems under larger loads and likely be having heel clearance problems with many panniers.

as far as the cannondale t800 and t2000 touring models, they are essentially about the same as the trek 520. the only major difference be the ride provided the cannondale aluminum frames as opposed to the trek's cro-moly steel. most people feel that steel provides a much smoother ride.

here's another tourer to check out: http://www.fujibikes.com/2005/bikes.asp?id=22#
it has sti shifting as opposed to the bar-ends on the trek. it's also rather less expensive.

i see yu also mentioned a co-motion. big jump in the price tag there. along similar lines, maybe check out:
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/index.html
http://www.litespeed.com/bikes/2005/blueridge.aspx
http://www.ifbikes.com/frames2/steelindependence.shtml
http://www.bgcycles.com/blt.html
http://www.burley.com/products/road-bikes/default.aspx?p=Hudson&i=0

here's a page with lots of info and links:
http://www.faughnan.com/touringbike.html

it's a tough call on quality vs. price tag. if you're not too sure just how much you'll be getting into touring i'd suggest the fuji or trek. i think you'll get a decent ride. i think touring bikes make good daily bikes too. where they fall behind is racing because they're built heavier and are as nimble as a racing frame.
i could go on, but am a bit pressed for time .

 

[philso]

hi js - the litespeed looks like a very nice bike also.

if you're interested in being able to fold your bike up, check out:
http://www.sandsmachine.com/

i don't think the trek pilot would be any better for touring than your 5000.
if you're fairly sure you wont be getting into fully self-supported touring, a "sports tourer" might be a good way to go if you don't want to get heavy duty touring bike or high-end bike. something like the bianchi volpe or a bike with similar geometry and features would probably be very suitable for your needs.

http://www.bianchiusa.com/570.html

 

[jsirabella]

I think I am starting to understand what you mean by geometry. It comes down to how you will sit on the bike and where will the weight go, on your back, arms or your backside.

I have to admit I really love the idea of the sandsmachine as I travel a bit and would love to be able to take my bike on the plane as easy as it looks. You seem to know alot so be blunt with me, how good is this S and S coupling? I can not believe it as good as they claim, what do you think? If it is, I think I may have a winner.

Alot of people always recommend the Volpe but the LightSpeed seems to have some very aggressive gears. The Volpe seems to be able to go to some very low gears while the LightSpeed seems to have gears only built for speed. I may be looking at it all wrong though.

Also if you had to pick an S and S type tourer or sport tourer, which would you pick up?

-jfs

hi js - the litespeed looks like a very nice bike also.

if you're interested in being able to fold your bike up, check out:
http://www.sandsmachine.com/

i don't think the trek pilot would be any better for touring than your 5000.
if you're fairly sure you wont be getting into fully self-supported touring, a "sports tourer" might be a good way to go if you don't want to get heavy duty touring bike or high-end bike. something like the bianchi volpe or a bike with similar geometry and features would probably be very suitable for your needs.

http://www.bianchiusa.com/570.html

 

[philso]

first, i have no direct experience of riding a bike with the s&s couplings though i've seen a few up close. they seem quite solid. i couldn't notice any movement though i applied some pressure and torque. probably the best option would be to buy a bike built with them. if you want to retrofit a current bike, you'd have to tear down the bike, strip the paint, have them brazed on and then get a new paint job.

a bike's geometry means the length, angles and overall balance of the tubes. touring bikes and racing bikes are diametrically opposed as to what features you want. in a racing bike you want light weight for obvious reasons, a stiff frame that will deliver more power to the drive train because the frame will not flex so much, and a shorter frame with seat tube, head tube and forks much more vertical for nimble handling in curves and in quick manuevering in a pack.

what you want out a tourer are things like all day comfort, ease of handling, stability with heavy loads, more flexible but tough frame and features a frame that will accept fenders & have plenty of braze ons, wide gearing range so you can go fast when the wind is at your back but can also climb long hills with (relative) ease. essentially, the frame will be more stretched out, the seat and head tubes will lean more to the horizontal, and the fork will be raked more.

i wouldn't worry too much about the stock chainrings and rear cassette, because these are easily changed and is actually nice to have two sets: one for everyday geared a bit more for speed, and another for touring.

i mentioned the volpe as a compromise type frame. it has a number of good points, but wheelbase and chainstay are a tad on the short side.

hmm. what bike would i pick?

dream, cost-no-option, custom bikes to drool over:

http://www.richardsachs.com/gallery/index.htm
http://www.peter-mooney.com/index.htm

http://www.waterfordbikes.com/2005/data/bicycles/stock/ac/index.php
british maker who does the s&s. nice frame at good price:
http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=43

compare the co-motion's tig welded frame and price to those above

js, i'm going to leave off here. i was going to be working on one of my bikes today but find myself drooling over bike pictures instead. i'd better get back to the real world for a bit. look up some of the frame builders from the s&s page in your search engine. there are tons

 

[ovenchips]

wotcha, interesting comments re. the maps. We've been pointered towards using them next year on our California coast trip, but having never toured in the US before we've no idea what they're like.

Re. the saddle ... leather Brooks saddles are the business. I think the B17 is possibly the most popular one but mine's a Champion Flyer (with springs) and i wouldn't swap it for anything

what bikes ? - personally Dawes or Bob Jackson (if you can get them in the US that is ?)

 

[jsirabella]

philso

Sorry for the long wait for the post but wanted to do an experiment.

There was the NYC Century last Sunday and my co-worker got me into it. I usually never do those things but it was a great opportunity to test to ride my Trek 5000 for a long ride through NY streets which are pathetic at best.

Well the results were I was able to do the century starting at 6:30am and finished by 3:30pm which was great but on the other hand. I got a flat which cost me an hour in time and I was much more sore than when I did it on my Cannon BadBoy. On the BadBoy it took me till amost 7pm to get the same amount of distance covered but I was carrying much more weight and did stop for atleast two meals and the terrain in PA makes NYC look like Florida. On the Trek my knees, ankles, shoulders and hands were much more sore, more than I expected. I felt every bump and pothole in the road and the funny thing was that I was doing it in low gears. I was using my middle front ring and not a very high speed back ring. I found the whole experience strange but I am sure I will get a new touring bike and the Trek can not do it.

philso also since you really know your stuff, I am experimenting with my gears to see how I can get the most speed with my power. Being a math kind of guy shouldn't the second front with a small back ring equal the same as the large front and large back ring. I am definitely stronger and better than before but I feel I always get passed on some up and down hills because I do not know how to use my gears...any suggestions or manuals you can lead me to. There must be a science to this...

I am sure I want to go for the S&S coupling because I really want to travel to places I can not ride completely without planes. I really want to ride in Japan and the West Coast. It seems too much to carry without the S&S coupling. I need it to be sporty also but can do sport/middle touring. Some guys travel with them with these special bags but they look tough.

Some guys are recommending the Treks FX 7200 or 7700 (??) and some are saying go cyclocross with the LeMond Pompadour (??). Too many bikes I have even been looking at the Time trial bikes for fun, what a design

I am babbling now and sorry for the way I word stuff when it comes to the tech of bikes I am a newbie for sure.

-js

first, i have no direct experience of riding a bike with the s&s couplings though i've seen a few up close. they seem quite solid. i couldn't notice any movement though i applied some pressure and torque. probably the best option would be to buy a bike built with them. if you want to retrofit a current bike, you'd have to tear down the bike, strip the paint, have them brazed on and then get a new paint job.

a bike's geometry means the length, angles and overall balance of the tubes. touring bikes and racing bikes are diametrically opposed as to what features you want. in a racing bike you want light weight for obvious reasons, a stiff frame that will deliver more power to the drive train because the frame will not flex so much, and a shorter frame with seat tube, head tube and forks much more vertical for nimble handling in curves and in quick manuevering in a pack.

what you want out a tourer are things like all day comfort, ease of handling, stability with heavy loads, more flexible but tough frame and features a frame that will accept fenders & have plenty of braze ons, wide gearing range so you can go fast when the wind is at your back but can also climb long hills with (relative) ease. essentially, the frame will be more stretched out, the seat and head tubes will lean more to the horizontal, and the fork will be raked more.

i wouldn't worry too much about the stock chainrings and rear cassette, because these are easily changed and is actually nice to have two sets: one for everyday geared a bit more for speed, and another for touring.

i mentioned the volpe as a compromise type frame. it has a number of good points, but wheelbase and chainstay are a tad on the short side.

hmm. what bike would i pick?

dream, cost-no-option, custom bikes to drool over:

http://www.richardsachs.com/gallery/index.htm
http://www.peter-mooney.com/index.htm

http://www.waterfordbikes.com/2005/data/bicycles/stock/ac/index.php
british maker who does the s&s. nice frame at good price:
http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=43

compare the co-motion's tig welded frame and price to those above

js, i'm going to leave off here. i was going to be working on one of my bikes today but find myself drooling over bike pictures instead. i'd better get back to the real world for a bit. look up some of the frame builders from the s&s page in your search engine. there are tons

 

[jsirabella]

I am sure if you have done European touring, USA should be no problem for you folks.

The maps are exact but like I said not for the faint of heart...

-js

wotcha, interesting comments re. the maps. We've been pointered towards using them next year on our California coast trip, but having never toured in the US before we've no idea what they're like.

Re. the saddle ... leather Brooks saddles are the business. I think the B17 is possibly the most popular one but mine's a Champion Flyer (with springs) and i wouldn't swap it for anything

what bikes ? - personally Dawes or Bob Jackson (if you can get them in the US that is ?)

 

[philso]

js - centuries can go either way: real b_ll-busters or great fun. i used to do a century when i lived in northern california many years ago. i used my touring bike; just pulled off the fenders, rack and generator light. i usually came in at about the top 85% mark, at least the first 2 or 3 years. if i had trained and had a 2 or 3 pound lighter bike, who knows? i wasn't taking it that seriously. about 5 miles or so before the finish, the race went down the main street of a very small town with a lot of people out clapping and cheering you on. the last several years i did them, i'd hop off my bike, run into a couple of bars and let people buy me beers. dropped down to around the 80% level but what great fun!

gearing can be a science i guess, but i never paid much attention to it. basically, it's good to have some very high gears for any king of riding; racing or touring. what kind of gear ratio you want with your small chainring and large cog on the rear will be determined by what kind of climbing you'll have to do and how much weight you'll be moving. since i tend to do a lot of touring and there are a lot of mountains around here, i tend to stick with a pretty wide spread. however, if you think you'll be both racing and touring, it's easy enough to swap rear clusters and chainrings a day or two before. keep one tight cluster for racing, one with a big spread up to about 32 teeth or so for touring, and maybe even a 3rd mid-range one for everyday riding.

if you get a "sport" or "light" tourer with and adaptable gearing system, you can do well enough in both worlds.