Please help explain, coggan, RD, RST



Lucy_Aspenwind said:
Well I agree it is possible, your ride is an example of that. Obviously I'm at a whole other level now. Also I know from reading your posts and TSS comments, that you have the ability to train at a large volume with plenty of intensity - I don't know think I have that same capacity - at least not at present, though in time that may change.

Anyway, we've talked about similar topics before and my focus is raising FTP. I think the program I'm doing now is well-suited to doing that, having gotten input from you and others with opinions I respect.

It is still very, very early in the game for me! ;)
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Lucy,

Here is another great adage to think about:

The harder you train, the harder you can train...

Jim
 
whoawhoa said:
Well, whenever I do this on group rides I'm welcomed because
1. They like staying in the draft.
2. They know I'll pull through smoothly but strongly, rather than attacking the group up a hill and then sitting up on the down.
Probaly one reason why it's better to do group rides where you are one of the strongest riders there.
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I agree. It really depends on the behavior patterns of the group. On my group rides, I know who wants to go to the front and work and who wants to draft as much as possible. If I ever wanted to cut in the line in front of several riders who want to sit in and draft, they would welcome it. But, basically I can do the effective work of riding on front any time I want to by riding in a staggered position (if the road is wide enough).
 
RapDaddyo said:
That'll work until the first time she blows everybody off her wheel in a field sprint.
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I know people are talking about racing in general, but it's also good to keep local conditions in mind. Here are the results for a New Mexico race from last summer. I chose it at random, but it's typical of all the races. If anything, the time gaps are smaller than would usually be seen. My guess is the field went easy the first lap and only started racing the second. A field sprint in a women's race here is still a long way off.

1 02:50:25.00
2 02:50:56.00
3 02:52:11.00
4 02:52:19.00
5 02:52:45.00
6 02:54:49.00
7 02:59:25.00
8 02:59:57.00
9 03:00:24.00
10 03:10:19.00
11 03:10:21.00
 
Lucy_Aspenwind said:
Alright - I'm anxious to hear about the 'hanger-on' tactics since I expect to be in that category, hoping to take my chances in the spint
biggrin.gif
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Trust me, you dont want to be a hanger-on, be the motor :D
 
asgelle said:
And what about the guys behind where you barge in? What are they supposed to do? Now they're stuck behind the rotation and either have to accept sitting in and never working, or fight for position in the rotation. Nothing ruins what should be a friendly group ride more than having to constantly fight for your position. Someone who repeatedly did this would be no more welcome on our rides than the guy who thinks he has to show off by upping the pace every time he gets on the front or refuses to get off the front no matter how much he slows down.
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I see your point, so perhaps a little context is in order. First, I don't usually participate in 'friendly group rides' except on occasion with my teammates. While those can be fun, they are pretty much a waste of time from a training perspective. The rides that I'm referring to in my comments above are race-pace weekly club rides frequented by many local Cat and Masters racers. It is well understood that the group will split up along the way, with those seeking to push the pace moving away from those who don't. Second, I don't barge into line or ride people off their wheel. This is a hilly ride where small gaps can be filled and people are more than willing to allow someone to do extra pace-making. There are major hills on the back half of the course, which means that even the racers sometimes ride conservatively on the front half - except for the 1 guy with the power meter that's trying to get some work done. ;) Additionally, it is not at all uncommon for someone to pull out of line from several wheels back and go to the front for a pull if they feel the pace has dropped too much for their liking. My dropping into line as I do isn't really stopping anyone from getting a workout, if they want, but I know what you mean. When someone slows down then the group rides right around them -- problem solved.

As Whoawhoa mentioned, there are usually no 'attacks', just hard steady pulls and plenty of work for those that want to do it. Typically, several of the non-competitive riders will hold on as long as they can (ie, until the bigger hills hit) to get a feel for what a RR is like. If they want to try a pull or two, great, but it usually means they end up getting dropped as a result. Chalk it up to a learning experience. In reality, I think they're there to see if/when they can 'hang'.
 
Alex Simmons said:
Back on the OT - can anyone explain Coggan, RD or RST? :) :p :D
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Looks like he finally made the 'big time'. That's some fine company. :D

No, I can't think of any explanation. :p
 
the other thing to think about when you are in a break and thinking about just how much work you are going to do is to think about your team mates back in the pack who are working, expending themselves to block and/or sitting in the wheels, giving up their chances to do well in the race to try to ensure that your break stays away... if you get dropped from that break you've just screwed them over... if you've ever been working in the pack for a team mate in a break and look up to see your rider coming back.. and now you have to start to chase down that break that you've just spent half the race making sure it stays away and makes time on the peleton.. let me tell you, it's pretty mofo frustrating. you're first priority in a break is to ensure that you don't get dropped from it... you can do as much work as you can without getting dropped... do you want the stanger in the break P.O'd or do you want your team mates PO'd at you?

sure work on Th but when you're in a race you have to work with what you have on the day..
 
doctorSpoc said:
the other thing to think about when you are in a break and thinking about just how much work you are going to do is to think about your team mates back in the pack who are working, expending themselves to block and/or sitting in the wheels, giving up their chances to do well in the race to try to ensure that your break stays away... if you get dropped from that break you've just screwed them over... if you've ever been working in the pack for a team mate in a break and look up to see your rider coming back.. and now you have to start to chase down that break that you've just spent half the race making sure it stays away and makes time on the peleton.. let me tell you, it's pretty mofo frustrating. you're first priority in a break is to ensure that you don't get dropped from it... you can do as much work as you can without getting dropped... do you want the stanger in the break P.O'd or do you want your team mates PO'd at you?

sure work on Th but when you're in a race you have to work with what you have on the day..
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Not as PO'd as having a "team mate" chase you down....:mad: You never forget things like that!
 
Alex Simmons said:
Not as PO'd as having a "team mate" chase you down....:mad: You never forget things like that!
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yup, chasing a teammate down is definitely the worst thing you can do..
 
RapDaddyo said:
....That'll work until the first time she blows everybody off her wheel in a field sprint. .....
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Ah, but then Lucy will no doubt have her first race win :cool: ....and as I recall, the first one (race win) is always the hardest to come by....then things just seem to fall into place ;)
 
Alex Simmons said:
....That's enough for now....
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Ah c'mon Alex, keep going.....there's a fair possibility that we've raced each other, or will in the future :D

Cheers
MY02_STi (aka Chris Belyea - Peloton Sports (MMAS5))
 
MY02_STi said:
Ah c'mon Alex, keep going.....there's a fair possibility that we've raced each other, or will in the future :D

Cheers
MY02_STi (aka Chris Belyea - Peloton Sports (MMAS5))
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Hey, I gotta keep a few tricks up my sleeve:D :D Won't see you in championships though - I'm a MMAS3. I am doing the Olympic Park Crit and Snowy Wilson this next two Saturdays though..... so maybe I'll see you there.
 
Alex Simmons said:
..... so maybe I'll see you there.
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More than likely - I'll be helping out setting up, marshalling and the like :) but not racing as its our 'home' event :cool: Good luck :D
 
MY02_STi said:
More than likely - I'll be helping out setting up, marshalling and the like :) but not racing as its our 'home' event :cool: Good luck :D
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It's funny, I raced that circuit about 3/4 years ago IIRC (I think it was part of LACC's crit series) and had a good day using some of the (positive) team tactics discussed in this thread. I'm just gunna be looking for a fun race.
 
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