Re: A different look at the helmet debate: was cycling links -

[Tony Raven]

Roberta Hatch wrote:
>
>>Hmm.. maybe we should try this one.. you are running for a train and slip on
>>a pile of frozen vomit on the platform. ...
>
>
> Maybe you should just stick to the subject at hand. Bicycles
> and helemts, instead of trying to come up with something bogus as a
> counterexample. For example: Outlawing bicycles will prevent all
> injuries related to bicycle riding.
>

Its a valid question. Per mile and per hour you are more likely to
suffer a head injury as a pedestrian than as a cyclist. Yet you don't
seem to be calling for helmets to be worn by pedestrians even though
they are at greater risk than cyclists. Why not?

Tony

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 15:59:05 +0000, Tony Raven <[email protected]>
wrote in message <[email protected]>:

>Its a valid question. Per mile and per hour you are more likely to
>suffer a head injury as a pedestrian than as a cyclist. Yet you don't
>seem to be calling for helmets to be worn by pedestrians even though
>they are at greater risk than cyclists.

I think we may only be looking at the tip of the iceberg here -
pedestrian injuries which do not involve motor traffic will normally
be recorded as trips and falls, which vastly outnumber every other
source of accidental head injury.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

 

[Roberta Hatch]

Tony Raven <[email protected]> wrote:
>Roberta Hatch wrote:

>>>Hmm.. maybe we should try this one.. you are running for a train and slip on
>>>a pile of frozen vomit on the platform. ...

>> Maybe you should just stick to the subject at hand. Bicycles
>> and helemts, instead of trying to come up with something bogus as a
>> counterexample. For example: Outlawing bicycles will prevent all
>> injuries related to bicycle riding.

>Its a valid question. Per mile and per hour you are more likely to
>suffer a head injury as a pedestrian than as a cyclist. Yet you don't
>seem to be calling for helmets to be worn by pedestrians even though
>they are at greater risk than cyclists. Why not?

No it is not a vaild question. It's no more valid than trying
to say that people fall off chairs when eating dinner and why shouldn't
they wear seat belts.

The fact of the matter is we are talking about safety on public
roads, not some freak accident involving slipping "on a puddle of frozen
vomit" or falling down a flight of stairs.

Bobbi

---
Roberta Hatch http://www.tamucc.edu/~whatley/pols2306/hatch.htm '65 Panhead
Dykes on Bikes, San Francisco, CA (This space for rent)

 

[David Hansen]

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:05:22 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be
[email protected] (Roberta Hatch) wrote this:-

>The fact of the matter is we are talking about safety on public
>roads, not some freak accident involving slipping "on a puddle of frozen
>vomit"

People slip on vomit on public roads regularly. Whether it is frozen
or not depends on the temperature.

>or falling down a flight of stairs.

Many people fall down stairs every day, often suffering head
injuries in the process.

Neither of these things are freak accidents. They are regular and
predictable.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

 

[David Martin]

On 28/11/04 9:30 pm, in article [email protected],
"David Hansen" <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:05:22 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be
> [email protected] (Roberta Hatch) wrote this:-
>
>> The fact of the matter is we are talking about safety on public
>> roads, not some freak accident involving slipping "on a puddle of frozen
>> vomit"
>

The OP was talking about having a friend hit you with an iron bar. Yes,
completely realistic portrayal of my day to day existence, not.

> People slip on vomit on public roads regularly. Whether it is frozen
> or not depends on the temperature.
>
>> or falling down a flight of stairs.
>
> Many people fall down stairs every day, often suffering head
> injuries in the process.
>
> Neither of these things are freak accidents. They are regular and
> predictable.

...d

 

[Roberta Hatch]

David Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>"David Hansen" <[email protected]> wrote:

>> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:05:22 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be
>> [email protected] (Roberta Hatch) wrote this:-

>>> The fact of the matter is we are talking about safety on public
>>> roads, not some freak accident involving slipping "on a puddle of frozen
>>> vomit"

>The OP was talking about having a friend hit you with an iron bar. Yes,
>completely realistic portrayal of my day to day existence, not.

I sugest you actully read what was posted instead of making
up ****. A poster made the claim that his helmet saved his skull
when he hit a curb. Another poster took issue with that. Does, or
does not, a piece of angle iron to the head simulate hitting a curb?

>> Many people fall down stairs every day, often suffering head
>> injuries in the process.

This discussion is about bicycle safety. Now be a good lad
and stay on topic.

Bobbi

---
Roberta Hatch '65 Panhead
Dykes on Bikes, San Francisco, CA (This space for rent)

 

[David Martin]

On 29/11/04 2:01 pm, in article [email protected], "Roberta Hatch"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> The OP was talking about having a friend hit you with an iron bar. Yes,
>> completely realistic portrayal of my day to day existence, not.
>
> I sugest you actully read what was posted instead of making
> up ****. A poster made the claim that his helmet saved his skull
> when he hit a curb. Another poster took issue with that. Does, or
> does not, a piece of angle iron to the head simulate hitting a curb?

The post to which I was replying came up with the specious arguement about
having a friend hit you with an iron bar with or without a helmet. They also
raiseed the 'what if you fell off and your melon hit a kerb'

The 'what if you slipped on a pile of frozen vomit when runnign for a train'
is just as legitimate a hand-wringing exercise for the latter (and did
happen to a friend of mine. I was there at the time and no, he wasn't
wearing a helmet).

The 'get your friend to just miss you with an iron bar' was showing that the
former arguement was specious as it was entirely constructed to prove a
point rather than to reflect a real life scenario.

So, I could go back and reread the thread. You probably missed the point
about securing melons in panniers as well.

...d

 

[Roberta Hatch]

David Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Roberta Hatch" <[email protected]> wrote:

>>> The OP was talking about having a friend hit you with an iron bar. Yes,
>>> completely realistic portrayal of my day to day existence, not.

>> I sugest you actully read what was posted instead of making
>> up ****. A poster made the claim that his helmet saved his skull
>> when he hit a curb. Another poster took issue with that. Does, or
>> does not, a piece of angle iron to the head simulate hitting a curb?

>The post to which I was replying came up with the specious arguement about
>having a friend hit you with an iron bar with or without a helmet. They also
>raiseed the 'what if you fell off and your melon hit a kerb'

I know what I wrote. And, if you're going to use quotes at
least get the spelling correct. And, since you want call the argument
"specious," I suggest you take a look-see at the types of anvils used
to test helmets.

>The 'what if you slipped on a pile of frozen vomit when runnign for a train'
>is just as legitimate...

Wrong, again. Slipping on a "pile" of vomit has absoultly nothing
to do with bicycle safety. And, I don't care if your friend doesn't have
sense enough to watch where he's walking.

>So, I could go back and reread the thread. You probably missed the point
>about securing melons in panniers as well.

I don't really care. Just stay on topic and stop trying to
lead the discussion down some dark alley.

Bobbi

---
Roberta Hatch '65 Panhead
Dykes on Bikes, San Francisco, CA (This space for rent)

 

[David Martin]

On 29/11/04 2:40 pm, in article [email protected], "Roberta Hatch"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> David Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Roberta Hatch" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>> The OP was talking about having a friend hit you with an iron bar. Yes,
>>>> completely realistic portrayal of my day to day existence, not.
>
>>> I sugest you actully read what was posted instead of making
>>> up ****. A poster made the claim that his helmet saved his skull
>>> when he hit a curb. Another poster took issue with that. Does, or
>>> does not, a piece of angle iron to the head simulate hitting a curb?
>
>> The post to which I was replying came up with the specious arguement about
>> having a friend hit you with an iron bar with or without a helmet. They also
>> raiseed the 'what if you fell off and your melon hit a kerb'
>
> I know what I wrote. And, if you're going to use quotes at
> least get the spelling correct.
It was a paraphrase and kerb is spelled correctly.

> And, since you want call the argument
> "specious," I suggest you take a look-see at the types of anvils used
> to test helmets.

I see a lot of these test anvil's laying in wait for cyclists falling off
their bikes.. An uncountable number in fact.

>
>> The 'what if you slipped on a pile of frozen vomit when runnign for a train'
>> is just as legitimate...
>
> Wrong, again. Slipping on a "pile" of vomit has absoultly nothing
> to do with bicycle safety. And, I don't care if your friend doesn't have
> sense enough to watch where he's walking.

It has everything to do with the hand-wringing attitude of 'it might happen
at any time - look the sky is falling' and the relevance of wearing a foam
hat for protection against one type of infrequent incident vs another.

Oh, and if you had read what I wrote you would realise my friend was
running, not walking. ANd if you fall off your bike and hit a kerb, maybe
you should look where you are riding...


>
>> So, I could go back and reread the thread. You probably missed the point
>> about securing melons in panniers as well.
>
> I don't really care. Just stay on topic and stop trying to
> lead the discussion down some dark alley.

This is Usenet. Welcome to teh world of dark alleys. The discussion is not
yours alone unless you like talking to yourself.

...d

 

[JLB]

Roberta Hatch wrote:
> David Martin <[email protected]> wrote:

>>The OP was talking about having a friend hit you with an iron bar. Yes,
>>completely realistic portrayal of my day to day existence, not.
>
>
> I sugest you actully read what was posted instead of making
> up ****. A poster made the claim that his helmet saved his skull
> when he hit a curb. Another poster took issue with that. Does, or
> does not, a piece of angle iron to the head simulate hitting a curb?
>
>
>>>Many people fall down stairs every day, often suffering head
>>>injuries in the process.
>
>
> This discussion is about bicycle safety. Now be a good lad
> and stay on topic.

You say that, and yet you want to include a discussion of being hit
around the head with a piece of angle iron. Is that a typical bicycling
experience where you live?


--
Joe * If I cannot be free I'll be cheap

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 14:40:39 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Roberta
Hatch) wrote in message <[email protected]>:

>Slipping on a "pile" of vomit has absoultly nothing
>to do with bicycle safety.

Interestingly, neither do helmets, according to whole population
figures from around the world. Puzzling, isn't it? It's almost as if
some of those studies have overstate the benefits somewhat, and the
helmet lobby have further distorted things. Who'd have thought it.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

 

[Eric®]

Roberta Hatch wrote:

> >Its a valid question. Per mile and per hour you are more likely to
> >suffer a head injury as a pedestrian than as a cyclist. Yet you don't
> >seem to be calling for helmets to be worn by pedestrians even though
> >they are at greater risk than cyclists. Why not?
>
> No it is not a vaild question. It's no more valid than trying
> to say that people fall off chairs when eating dinner and why shouldn't
> they wear seat belts.

Deciding that the questions of other people are 'invalid' is definitely
the mark of a free-thinking liberal kind of person.

Eric Schild