recovery

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by leanman, Dec 27, 2011.

  1. leanman

    leanman Member

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    trainings going great.. doing the usual 3 weeks on 1 week off, but i have been feeling so good latley, i went 5 on and tonight, 3 minutes into my 20 minute hard tempo trainer ride i stopped. felt bad in the 40 minute warm up, ok during my few 5, 10, 15. 20 second sprints, but when i started the 20 i was still feeling bad.. no legs. this only happens to me 1,2 times a year. i hear lots of guys get it way more oftten..

    so saturday is the long 70-85 miler with the group, so is taking off tomorrow, an ez 30 minute ride thursday and off again on friday enough for the rest week?

    normally for my rest week after 3 weeks on, i still do my hard group ride on saturday and still do the hard 20 minute intervals on tuesday, and ride real slow a few days and take off a few days during the rest week.

    i'm going to try resting wed and fri and only doing an ez 30 minutes thursday..

    should i stick to always doing 3 weeks on 1 off, or is what i did ok by going 5 weeks on... kinda ride till you physically feel weak before resting a few days?

    opinions?

    thanks
     
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  2. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    Training is all about progressive overload, so unless there's a very specific set of training aimed towards a "year defining goal" and subsequent taper, you really should be staying away from thrashing yourself into a state of tiredness during a 3 or 5 week cycle that requires a week off.

    Even if you have a tool like Training Peaks to monitor CTL etc, you still need to heed the signs of tiredness, overtraining and things like niggling colds/illness. If you ever feel overly tired, take a honest look back at what you've been doing on and off the bike, how much rest and sleep you've been getting and your diet. At this time of year take a quick look at your friends and see if everyone is starting to come down with whatever cold/flu bug is going around. Sort out problems when they're minor - that way you can get back to training properly.

    One thing that I never really understood why people did it in training, and you pointed it out in the thread. Oddball warmup and training times... The warm up is supposed to be shortish and the training is supposed to take up the majority of the session. A 40 minute warm up with a 20 minute effort and a few sprints? For a regular session you could ramp up the first 5 minutes and dive straight into a 20 minute interval - it aint gonna kill you physically but mentally it might be a little tough if you're not used to it. 10 minutes warm up seems about right. A warm up for a specific event, like a kilo, pursuit or fairly short TT like 10 miles, you'll want to spend more time warming up than the event itself - but that's a completely different situation.
     
  3. jhuskey

    jhuskey Moderator

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    It is sometimes a mystery why doing the same routine makes you feel tired. I went through a tough period early summer.
    While trying to do a fast tempo 20 miler I had to stop 3 times before steep climbs to compose myself. This ride is usually a cake walk for me but for some reason I bonked for about 3 weeks.
    My BP bottomed out reading 96/56 , not fatal but that top number is low for me. Not sure why the body reacts this way sometime but it is better to listen to it and maybe backoff a little until your rhythm returns.
     
  4. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Forget the numbers - listen to your body.
    That's the advice I got in pre-scientific days and it is the one which works for me.

    As others have said here, training and workload is based on an accumulation of miles/distance. In working toward achieving that training milestone it is essential that workload = recovery. If you start to scrimp on recovery this will affect your training performance.

    I tend to work on blocks of training and recovery. If I have done a block of training, rested and then try to train again but I feel tired, I stop.
    Because from experience I know that my system needs to fully recover before I can start to target the next training objective.

    It is my view that a lot of training anecdotes come through trial and error unfortunately
     
  5. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    jh/lm -> +1 on the advice. 2011 cause of my issues I listened to my body and perform much better overall. In the past I would plan too much and feel that I should be fine, I mean WKO+ indicates it.

    Does not work that way for the weekend warrior. Too much going on in our lives. You must listen to your body and adjust. Recovery is never discussed enough IMHO. We are all different and need to adjust to the differences.

    -js
     
  6. leanman

    leanman Member

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    thanks

    i appreciate the replies..

    always asking and trying to find out what training ways are the best for me.. been doing my same ways for years.. i do rest alot .. i'm 56 a cat 2 and know it aint ez in these 1-2 races..

    i rest 1 day off the bike , usually a friday and 3 other days are 30 minutes ez on the trainer..

    so many different ways of training though..i read about big time coaches saying ride ez all fall/winter building base, then i also read about thats too old school, that will do nothing for you but make you good at riding slow..

    i read where base training isnt really fall winterez training before the spring summer races, but base is what you have done these last 10 years, thats why some coaches say go at it ez for a few weeks after the season end break then start riding hard. not everyday, but a few days, like a weekend long hammerfest group ride, plus 1 hard workout middle of the week, even though its nov dec jan feb..as long as you are resting alot.

    then i read where they say close to races do shorter 1-2-3-4 minute intervals and back off the long weekend ride..

    i hear alot, read alot, and just try to find out whats best for me..

    some say overload. ride 10 hrs week 1 12 hrs week 2 and 14 hrs week 3 then do a rest week on week 4 with 4 hrs..

    thats alot of riding, but its all slow riding..

    very confusing.. one guy thats older than me rides hard 2-3 days a week year round, took 4th in the mt bike worlds... so i'm just asking on this forum whats the best way to get faster/stronger...

    a key race is march 1st and then second week of april, then nationals i think in august. all other races are just races..

    whats a good plan to follow to be ready for march 1st?

    i have no powermeter, hr monitor. cant afford them..
    i have time to train and desire..

    i like to hear of a good plan for my two races

    currently i do a hard 80 on sat. ez hour sun. ez 30 min mon. 2x20min. tuesday hard.(1.5 total hrs ). ez 30 min wed. ez 30 min thurs. off fri.

    thanks for any replies
     
  7. davereo

    davereo Well-Known Member

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    My wife struggles during the summer also.
     
  8. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    lm->How is your body reacting to your current program. Do you always feel tired? Do you feel that your workouts are suffering cause you do not have enough rest? The basic two trains of thought I have seen over the years is

    1) Lots of miles, low intensity meaning doing 3 hour or longer rides on a fairly regular basis.

    2) Shorter rides, higher intensity meaning pretty much 1.5 - 2 hour rides with lots of tempo and threshold intervals mixed in.

    I in the past would get bogged down with too much research and honestly it will do you no good. Whatever plan you pick you have to stick with it long enough to see the benefit. I do believe that change is good once you hit a plateau. Also I have seen that some people get more gains from plan 1 than 2 and vice versa which IMHO is genetics.

    Given you are Cat 2 I am sure you have tried many plans and to reach Cat 2 have had good results. Do you feel you have reached a plateau with your current plan?

    -js
     
  9. leanman

    leanman Member

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    always feel good... never ever tired.. i rest 5 days a week really looking at my weekly schedule. going hard saturday and thursday. basicaly the same shedule during race season with saturdays team / group ride replaced with a race. still do the very hard 20 minute tempo training tuesdays. before a big race, 4 weeks out i will replace the 20 minute tempo with 4-5-6 very hard 4 minute intervals. i rest a ton. off or 30 minute ex trainer rides 5 days a week.. thats a lot of rest..
    always looking for that new workout or new way of training to gain that 1%. palo bettini use to do 20 minutes of 20 seconds hard 40 seconds rest for 20 minutes.. not all out 20 seconds but hard.. this better than 20 minutes tempo?

    who knows. i like to experiment.
    but like my previous posts i said, i only go hard 2 times a week year round wit lots of rest.... maybe i'm at my peak?? and nomatter what i do i'm topped out?

    appreciate the replies.

    i always disagreeded with the volume thing though.
    10 hrs then 12 then 14. hell, dont you just get good at riding slow then?

    maybe it cause i'm older that my 25-35 year old friends do 2-3 days intervals during the season thaat they are a bit better.. they can handle the stress cause they are younger??

    i think intervals rest a few days , intervals rest a few days is way better than what i do, but maybe its my age..

    i feel fresh all the time doing my weekly training. just felt bad tuesday..

    off yesterday and going to do my 30 minutes now.. off tomorrow and 80 mile hammerfest saturday..

    wish i could afford a coach. cant afford nothing.. no power tak hr monitor. nothing..
    oh well, thanks for the replies
     
  10. scartissue22

    scartissue22 New Member

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    No, if you're riding 15-20 hours a week obviously you'll be riding slowly during the training ride but it will help your aerobic fitness, your base will be better and you will be able to hang in longer...
    If you are really serious about this then I would recommend riding a lot more, less turbo and more road. See the results for yourself, I can promise you it will make you fitter.

    Also the reason you don't feel tired is because you're having so much time off, not enough long efforts regular enough, theres room for improvement!!
     
  11. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    sc22->What do you think is a good amount of hours to put in per week at L2? Or per ride?

    -js
     
  12. jhuskey

    jhuskey Moderator

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    Training time all depends on your goals, needs, where you are and where you want to be.
     
  13. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    jh->I know what you are saying. I just always hear the expression, "ride lots", well what would someone consider "lots". When do we reach the "lots zone"?
     
  14. jhuskey

    jhuskey Moderator

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    Difficult term to define. A pro that I know always said he needed to train for 10,000 kms to be ready for the season. Pros train for a living and can train many miles miles a day 5 days a week but for an average guy 250 a weeks is a lot, 400 a week is a great many and 100 -150 is pretty good. At least this is my opinion.
    It is also about the intensity of the ride, how hard and how fast you go. When T-Mobile was around the team would train very hard all day and then go for a rest but Zabel would go out on his own after everyone had finished and train more.
    I guess he felt he needed the extra mile.
    Some train to be better than the guy they are racing against, some train to be better than they themselves are.
     
  15. An old Guy

    An old Guy Active Member

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    You are riding 2 days a week about 5 hours. It is difficult to know what you mean by "hard 80 miles." I don't think you are riding enough to keep your abilities at Cat2. That makes racing tough.

    High mileage days do not have to be easy days. Your 80 mile day appears to be hard not easy in your opinion. I would suggest finding groups that you can be working hard when at the front and not get dropped when hanging on. Ride with those groups several times a week. You goal should be to sit at the front for the entire ride. (At least in the wind. Some groups don't like one guy hogging all the time at the front.)

    You are taking way too much time off.
     
  16. scartissue22

    scartissue22 New Member

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    When Greg LeMond was 15 he was riding 500-600 miles a week.
    This explains why he was a pro. The term ride lots means just that, ride as much as you're capable of doing without literally exausting yourself.

    15 hours a week on the bike would be enough if you have that amount of time spare.
     
  17. leanman

    leanman Member

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    thanks everyone for the replies.. i am going to slowly , and weekly add on miles..
    do 8 then 10 then 12 hours. rest a bit my 4th week, then do 10 then 12 the 14 hours the next 3 weeks..then rest a bit, then do 12 then 14 then 16 hours..then a rest week.. that will be al the time i have..i will keep my tuesday the same with the very hard 2x 20 minutes of tempo and saturdays the same with the hard group 80 mile ride.. i will ride the rest of the time just riding, not hard, not ez. just enjoying the extra time and hrs riding.. hope i improve with these added hours..

    thanks alot
     
  18. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    lm/scar->I decided to follow a bit of this strategy as I have the time now and shoot for 15 hours or more a week. Did 3 hour rides, yesterday and today on the trainer. The CTL is in skyrocket mode. Interesting to see the benefit when mixed with the 2 hours SST rides.
     
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