**** respsonse from Connex about bikes on trains.

[PeteSig]

"Theo Bekkers" wrote:
>
> Why is a 4WD ute so much worse than a 2WD one?
>
> Theo
> Was thinking of trading it on a new 4WD diesel version of the same brand
> ute.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/07/12/1089484299348.html

"In fact, presently Australia does the opposite to the French - rewarding
those who buy SUVs with an artificially cheaper car. By virtue of an
outdated Government policy, SUVs imported into Australia attract a lower
tariff than passenger cars.

"Twenty years ago, the Government decided that four-wheel-drives should only
attract a 5 per cent import tariff compared to the 15 per cent tariff
imposed on passenger cars. Back then, the policy made perfect sense as
fourwheel- drives were used as off-road work vehicles. But, as everyone
knows, these days they are more likely to be found clogging suburban streets
at school pick-up time. "We are subsidising trauma and we are taxing
safety," says Scruby.

"Based on 2002 sales of four-wheel-drives, Australia lost an estimated $360
million in customs duties because of the tariff anomaly. Some Subarus,
including the popular Forester, are even modified on the production line
specifically for the Australian market to take advantage of the lower
tariff. The Australian Forester is 10mm higher than those sold in the rest
of the world to meet the 200mm ground clearance requirement."


--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

 

[PeteSig]

"Theo Bekkers" wrote:

>> The risk of injury in a bus crash is absolutely miniscule (smaller
>> than injuries sustained from bike riding), and for the great cost of
>> belting every seat in every bus, it is most certainly not worth it.
>
> Try this angle then. Aircraft travel is far safer than even a bus, and
> they have belts on every seat. In the event of a crash they are of no use
> at all.

Severe air turbulence! A real risk.

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

 

[Theo Bekkers]

PeteSig wrote:
> "Theo Bekkers" wrote:
>
>>> The risk of injury in a bus crash is absolutely miniscule (smaller
>>> than injuries sustained from bike riding), and for the great cost of
>>> belting every seat in every bus, it is most certainly not worth it.
>>
>> Try this angle then. Aircraft travel is far safer than even a bus,
>> and they have belts on every seat. In the event of a crash they are
>> of no use at all.
>
> Severe air turbulence! A real risk.

A bigger risk than standing on a bus hanging onto a leather strap?

Theo

 

[Resound]

"PeteSig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Theo Bekkers" wrote:
>>
>> Why is a 4WD ute so much worse than a 2WD one?
>>
>> Theo
>> Was thinking of trading it on a new 4WD diesel version of the same brand
>> ute.
>
> http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/07/12/1089484299348.html
>
> "In fact, presently Australia does the opposite to the French - rewarding
> those who buy SUVs with an artificially cheaper car. By virtue of an
> outdated Government policy, SUVs imported into Australia attract a lower
> tariff than passenger cars.
>
> "Twenty years ago, the Government decided that four-wheel-drives should
> only attract a 5 per cent import tariff compared to the 15 per cent tariff
> imposed on passenger cars. Back then, the policy made perfect sense as
> fourwheel- drives were used as off-road work vehicles. But, as everyone
> knows, these days they are more likely to be found clogging suburban
> streets at school pick-up time. "We are subsidising trauma and we are
> taxing safety," says Scruby.
>
> "Based on 2002 sales of four-wheel-drives, Australia lost an estimated
> $360 million in customs duties because of the tariff anomaly. Some
> Subarus, including the popular Forester, are even modified on the
> production line specifically for the Australian market to take advantage
> of the lower tariff. The Australian Forester is 10mm higher than those
> sold in the rest of the world to meet the 200mm ground clearance
> requirement."
>

I make a real distinction between someone buying a 4WD ute as a work vehicle
and someone buying a 2½ tonne lardmobile to do an urban commute. I think the
tarriff situation with 4WDs is a joke and should be rectified. I also think
that farmers and the like *should* be able to get some form of rebate on
work vehicles, but only once they demonstrate that they are in fact primary
producers or something similar.

 

[Theo Bekkers]

PeteSig wrote:
> "Theo Bekkers" wrote:
>>
>> Why is a 4WD ute so much worse than a 2WD one?
>> Was thinking of trading it on a new 4WD diesel version of the same
>> brand ute.
>
> http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/07/12/1089484299348.html
>
> "In fact, presently Australia does the opposite to the French -
> rewarding those who buy SUVs with an artificially cheaper car. By
> virtue of an outdated Government policy, SUVs imported into Australia
> attract a lower tariff than passenger cars.
>
> "Twenty years ago, the Government decided that four-wheel-drives
> should only attract a 5 per cent import tariff compared to the 15 per
> cent tariff imposed on passenger cars. Back then, the policy made
> perfect sense as fourwheel- drives were used as off-road work
> vehicles. But, as everyone knows, these days they are more likely to
> be found clogging suburban streets at school pick-up time. "We are
> subsidising trauma and we are taxing safety," says Scruby.
>
> "Based on 2002 sales of four-wheel-drives, Australia lost an
> estimated $360 million in customs duties because of the tariff
> anomaly. Some Subarus, including the popular Forester, are even
> modified on the production line specifically for the Australian
> market to take advantage of the lower tariff. The Australian Forester
> is 10mm higher than those sold in the rest of the world to meet the
> 200mm ground clearance requirement."

Cool. So if I opt for the 4WD version I'll get better value for our money?
http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Cont...99&pagename=FOA/DFYPage/Default1024&c=DFYPage



Theo

 

[Theo Bekkers]

Theo Bekkers wrote:
> PeteSig wrote:
>> "Theo Bekkers" wrote:
>>>
>>> Why is a 4WD ute so much worse than a 2WD one?
>>> Was thinking of trading it on a new 4WD diesel version of the same
>>> brand ute.
>>
>> http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/07/12/1089484299348.html
>>
>> "In fact, presently Australia does the opposite to the French -
>> rewarding those who buy SUVs with an artificially cheaper car. By
>> virtue of an outdated Government policy, SUVs imported into Australia
>> attract a lower tariff than passenger cars.

> Cool. So if I opt for the 4WD version I'll get better value for our
> money?
> http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Cont...99&pagename=FOA/DFYPage/Default1024&c=DFYPage
>
>

Hey Pete, how come the same thing in 2WD is $7K cheaper?
http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Cont...49&pagename=FOA/DFYPage/Default1024&c=DFYPage

Theo

 

[John Pitts]

On 2008-01-10, Theo Bekkers <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Try this angle then. Aircraft travel is far safer than even a bus, and they
> have belts on every seat. In the event of a crash they are of no use at all.

They keep the bodies near the wreckage, making it easier to account for
all the passengers and crew.

--
John
If you must play, decide upon three things at the start: The rules of
the game, the stakes, and the quitting time. - Chinese proverb

 

[Theo Bekkers]

John Pitts wrote:
> Theo Bekkers wrote:

>> Try this angle then. Aircraft travel is far safer than even a bus,
>> and they have belts on every seat. In the event of a crash they are
>> of no use at all.
>
> They keep the bodies near the wreckage, making it easier to account
> for all the passengers and crew.

Excellent point. I was waiting for that.

"Hey George, this charred mess was seat 32C, so this body must be......"

Theo

 

[cfsmtb]

Melbourne trains need to be re-fit with bench seats along the sides,
and wide open standing spaces. That's all there is to it.

Stuff like that has been discussed on ABC 774 this morning. Jon Faine is back hols and he's giving the issue plenty of airtime.

Daniel Bowen (PTUA) was being interviewed - caught the end of the discussion just before the 9am news. Daniel's stance was positive and pragmatic. Like what is going on when a public transport advocacy group is communicating bicycle riders concerns? Oh really I should know the answer to that, it's been giving lots of people the sh1ts since 1995...

Also a great talkback call from a woman who was told by her doctor to start exercising or risk severe arthritis. She took up cycling from Thornbury to the eastern suburbs and returned home via the 4.10pm Epping. She can't do that now. Thanks Ms Kosky.

The Bin the Bike Ban campaign is kicking off, we had a really productive meeting at CERES on Saturday - should have more to report soon if people are interested in getting involved.

http://binthebikeban.org

 

[Daniel Bowen]

On Jan 5, 10:28 am, "Vintage" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I've got mates that get the train in after riding from South Morang to
> Epping station for instance so they can ride all day in town for work.
> These new rules mean a LONG day in the saddle with them HAVING to commute
> from South Morang into town, ride all day and THEN ride home most likely
> into a northerly at this time of the year pretty buggered.

Hi there,
If you're reading, could you ask your mates to email me? I've got a
local journalist (Whittlesea/Epping) who is looking for people there
affected by the ban.

(Yes, today's media suggests the government will back down, but it
doesn't hurt to keep on the pressure.)

Thanks,
Daniel
daniel.bowen at ptua dot org dot au
or reply to my Gmail address

 

[cfsmtb]

Read a precis of sorts here about the last few weeks:

http://modernthings.org/binthebikeb...le-victoria-incompetent-or-merely-complacent/

 

[cfsmtb]

Huzzah! Huzzah!

***

Minister lifts bicycle ban on peak-hour trains

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/wheels-in-motion/2008/02/14/1202760492789.html​

PUBLIC Transport Minister Lynne Kosky will today bow to anger from cyclists and reverse a controversial plan to ban bikes on trains during rush hours. ​

​

Bicycles will once again be allowed on all Connex and V/Line trains at all times - but only in the final carriage of Connex services, and only in set storage areas on V/Line trains. ​

​

The backpedal comes just six weeks after the rush-hour ban was revealed. ​

​

The ban was not formally announced; instead, it was found in the fine print of the Government's annual Fares and Ticketing Manual. ​

​

Ms Kosky, who was on holiday when the ban was revealed, distanced herself from the decision to ban bikes, and immediately ordered a review of the decision upon returning to work last month. ​

​

The move to ban bikes on Connex and V/Line services sparked heated debate, with many questioning the Government's commitment to more Victorians using sustainable forms of transport. ​

​

The ban was also bad news for cycle lobby group Bicycle Victoria, which was forced to issue a public apology to its members for not fighting the Government over the issue. ​

​

Bicycle Victoria's general manager, Harry Barber, said last night that he was relieved the ban had been reversed. "All the people who use a train-and-bike combination to get to work will be vastly relieved by this," Mr Barber said. "We can now get on with hooking the bicycle network up with the train network." ​

​

Ms Kosky will today meet bicycle and transport groups to advise them that she will reverse the policy. ​

​

In a sop to bike riders, Ms Kosky will also implement a new policy allowing folding bikes - little used in Australia but popular in European and American cities - on all trams and buses. Bikes will need to be folded before getting on to a service. ​

​

Chris Star, who helped form lobby group Bin the Bike Ban last month, said she was relieved the ban had been dropped. ​

​

"It created a lot of anger because we saw it as a denial of service. And it was done at such short notice and without consultation," she said. ​

 

[TimC]

On 2008-02-15, cfsmtb (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> Huzzah! Huzzah!
>
> ***
>
> Minister lifts bicycle ban on peak-hour trains
> http://tinyurl.com/2bq2yh
....
> In a sop to bike riders, Ms Kosky will also implement a new
> policy allowing folding bikes - little used in Australia but popular in
> European and American cities - on all trams and buses. Bikes will need
> to be folded before getting on to a service.

Huzzah indeed!

> Chris Star, who helped form lobby group Bin the Bike Ban last
> month, said she was relieved the ban had been dropped.

This Chris Star person, whoever she is, is almost as good as our Chris
Starr.

> \"It created a lot of anger because we saw it as a denial of
> service. And it was done at such short notice and without
> consultation,\" she said.

Good on 'er

--
TimC
Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.
-- Hamilcar Barca in comp.os.linux.advocacy

 

[cfsmtb]

Good on 'er

.
One 'r' thank you. Off for a cleansing ale. Or two.

 

[Resound]

"cfsmtb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Huzzah! Huzzah!
>
> ***
>
> Minister lifts bicycle ban on peak-hour trains
> http://tinyurl.com/2bq2yh
>
> PUBLIC Transport Minister Lynne Kosky will today bow to
> anger from cyclists and reverse a controversial plan to ban bikes on
> trains during rush hours.
>
>
> Bicycles will once again be allowed on all Connex and V/Line
> trains at all times - but only in the final carriage of Connex
> services, and only in set storage areas on V/Line trains.
>
>
> The backpedal comes just six weeks after the rush-hour ban
> was revealed.
>
>
> The ban was not formally announced; instead, it was found in
> the fine print of the Government's annual Fares and Ticketing Manual.
>
>
>
> Ms Kosky, who was on holiday when the ban was revealed,
> distanced herself from the decision to ban bikes, and immediately
> ordered a review of the decision upon returning to work last month.
>
>
>
> The move to ban bikes on Connex and V/Line services sparked
> heated debate, with many questioning the Government's commitment to
> more Victorians using sustainable forms of transport.
>
>
> The ban was also bad news for cycle lobby group Bicycle
> Victoria, which was forced to issue a public apology to its members for
> not fighting the Government over the issue.
>
>
> Bicycle Victoria's general manager, Harry Barber, said last
> night that he was relieved the ban had been reversed. \"All the people
> who use a train-and-bike combination to get to work will be vastly
> relieved by this,\" Mr Barber said. \"We can now get on with hooking
> the bicycle network up with the train network.\"
>
>
> Ms Kosky will today meet bicycle and transport groups to
> advise them that she will reverse the policy.
>
>
> In a sop to bike riders, Ms Kosky will also implement a new
> policy allowing folding bikes - little used in Australia but popular in
> European and American cities - on all trams and buses. Bikes will need
> to be folded before getting on to a service.
>
>
> Chris Star, who helped form lobby group Bin the Bike Ban last
> month, said she was relieved the ban had been dropped.
>
>
> \"It created a lot of anger because we saw it as a denial of
> service. And it was done at such short notice and without
> consultation,\" she said.

Go you! Incidentally, do you know whether the bikes on the last carriage on
Connex services caveat is only during peak hours or all day?

 

[cfsmtb]

Go you! Incidentally, do you know whether the bikes on the last carriage on
Connex services caveat is only during peak hours or all day?

Have a gander at the Metlink info here:

Bikes back on peak hour trains and further improvements announced
http://www.metlinkmelbourne.com.au/...our_trains_and_further_improvements_announced


Date Published: Friday, 15 February 2008
Train passengers can now travel with bikes on peak hour services. From Friday 15 February the following applies:

Metropolitan trains
Bikes can be carried on all metropolitan train services. Passengers are requested to use the area inside the last door of the last carriage and to consider the comfort and safety of other passengers.

Passengers with bikes are strongly advised not to travel in the area behind the driver’s cabin in the first carriage of the train as this area is reserved for passengers in wheelchairs.

Folding bikes are permitted in any part of the train if they are folded up, inside a bag or case. They should not be placed on a seat.

V/Line trains
Bikes can be carried on V/Line trains subject to the availability of space.

Locomotive-hauled services provide the best storage for bikes as space is limited on Sprinter and Vlocity trains.

Folding bikes are permitted in any part of the train if they are folded up, inside a bag or case. They should not be placed on a seat.

Other improvements
Other changes will be made to improve public transport access for passengers with bikes. These include:

• Signage and markings to outline bike parking and storage facilities, bike paths near railway stations and where passengers with bikes should travel on public transport.
• A campaign to promote bike storage facilities and information on how to travel safely and courteously with a bike on public transport.
• Standards for carrying folding bikes on all modes of public transport. The Department of Infrastructure will work with public transport operators and bicycle groups to develop standards for carrying folding bikes on all modes, including metropolitan trams and metropolitan and regional buses. It is expected that with a successful consultation, folding bikes could be taken on buses and trams from 1 April 2008.