Rumour: Kloden tested positive so he just pulled out
- Thread starter thunder
- Start date
I made the same mistake last August. I think Klodifan doesn't advertize her gender because she knows that people won't respect her opinions as much if they find out she's a lady...Malkmus said:
(j/k btw)
Geez. You guys are fools. Andreas Klodin is definately a guy. He was just in the bike race for cripes sakes. There were no girls in it.
(in reference to Klodifan)
Only a year? then I guess you probably wouldn't know that Klodifan has been a lot quieter in the last year (give or take a little), so you probably wouldn't really know that she is one of most level headed people posting.TheDarkLord said:
At the risk of starting yet another "Eldron should go and read DPF" whinge let me say this:
I never said doping should not be discussed. I'm just not a big fan of "guilty until proved innocent".
Call me ignorant or romantically "head stuck in the sand" but I would love to read a thread like "great ride by Johnny X gains his yellow/pink/polka dot" without 30 lines after it going "didn't he belong to XY team that doped so he's doped" or "he once went to Freiburg so he's doped" or "his ex DS once worked for a team rumoured to have doped so therefor he is doping" or "he once shared a room with a rider who's father had viagra in the car so he doped". It almost like some posters here have a pre written line "which proves he's a doper" and are just waiting for info to add to the front...
I know the sport is dirty - I know tens/hundreds of rider have been bust for dope, many more will and some will continue to dope but the tide seems to be changing. The doping sentiment has moved from "it's a hard sport so we dope because we have to and the inner circle know about it" to "doping is not good mkay". Sure that's overly simple but teams are internally testing, the public sentiment is in the right place and even suspiscious riders are being fired (eg: Asterloa, Ale Jet etc.). Fact is doping is getting harder to do and with much nastier consequences (most of the time).
The system is horribly flawed but we as cycling fans have to get to a point where we don't accuse someone of doping every time they sneeze - thunder/dark lord you guys are obviosly not there yet. I think I am - I see things heading in the right direction - maybe not fast enough but I'm going to give riders the benefit of the doubt.
What would it take for you guys to give riders the benefit of the doubt? Serious question.
Two other bits of info:
- I've never been to DPF
- I really like Kloden - he strikes me as an upstanding rider - my defence of him is definitely bias!
I never said doping should not be discussed. I'm just not a big fan of "guilty until proved innocent".
Call me ignorant or romantically "head stuck in the sand" but I would love to read a thread like "great ride by Johnny X gains his yellow/pink/polka dot" without 30 lines after it going "didn't he belong to XY team that doped so he's doped" or "he once went to Freiburg so he's doped" or "his ex DS once worked for a team rumoured to have doped so therefor he is doping" or "he once shared a room with a rider who's father had viagra in the car so he doped". It almost like some posters here have a pre written line "which proves he's a doper" and are just waiting for info to add to the front...
I know the sport is dirty - I know tens/hundreds of rider have been bust for dope, many more will and some will continue to dope but the tide seems to be changing. The doping sentiment has moved from "it's a hard sport so we dope because we have to and the inner circle know about it" to "doping is not good mkay". Sure that's overly simple but teams are internally testing, the public sentiment is in the right place and even suspiscious riders are being fired (eg: Asterloa, Ale Jet etc.). Fact is doping is getting harder to do and with much nastier consequences (most of the time).
The system is horribly flawed but we as cycling fans have to get to a point where we don't accuse someone of doping every time they sneeze - thunder/dark lord you guys are obviosly not there yet. I think I am - I see things heading in the right direction - maybe not fast enough but I'm going to give riders the benefit of the doubt.
What would it take for you guys to give riders the benefit of the doubt? Serious question.
Two other bits of info:
- I've never been to DPF
- I really like Kloden - he strikes me as an upstanding rider - my defence of him is definitely bias!
When performances like Sella's stop happening.Eldron said:
Performances that look too good to be true really are. I agree that doping is not as easy as it was once. I also look at the performance of certain riders like Contador in last year's TdF, knowing that he was climbing with people who were doping, and knowing that it is impossible for a clean rider to compete with one who dopes (contrary to what Lance and others might wish you to believe), and I still see someone who isn't clean this year either.
Many people think that doping was the exception in the peloton when it was the rule. Just read what those who have exposed themselves as dopers say about it. Look at the people who have been caught. Look at the studies that show the dramatic increase in performance attained by using doping techniques. Look at the people who won races against the people who were busted. It isn't hard to figure out how Hincape won a mountain stage in the TdF. It isn't hard to figure out how Lance decimated the field in the TdF. Look at the pictures of men who have just ridden 7 hours over 4 mountain passes crossing the line looking fresh as when they left.
What will it take? More believable finishes. The Giro was more believable this year. It did not however appear to be clean.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun02news2
Astana's manager revealed that people wondered "if Andreas Klöden would be our featured rider, following his recent victory in the Tour de Romandie. I say he was a champion here because he willingly took on the roll of 'super domestique'. Unfortunately, he came down with a respiratory infection mid-race, but managed to play a decisive role for Contador in stage 19, before having to abandon. We could not have won without him."
So, if the rumour is true, will Bruyneel give back Contadors maglia rosa ?
Astana's manager revealed that people wondered "if Andreas Klöden would be our featured rider, following his recent victory in the Tour de Romandie. I say he was a champion here because he willingly took on the roll of 'super domestique'. Unfortunately, he came down with a respiratory infection mid-race, but managed to play a decisive role for Contador in stage 19, before having to abandon. We could not have won without him."
So, if the rumour is true, will Bruyneel give back Contadors maglia rosa ?
thoughtforfood said:
Oddly enough I thought Sella's performance was good but not great - if he had won on the big mountains AND the TT's (the uphill TT aside of course) then I would have suspected something sinister. The guy is a great climber and little more. Rasmussenesque I guess but there is a dark cloud over his performance too...
I quite agree with you on the rest though - the "Lance era" was full of performances from athletes far above what they had previously been capable of. The Giro to me looked "mostly clean" - people suffered, people had bad days, nobody rode away to a 10 minute win etc. In general the riders look fallable...
Sadly I think it's going to take a Giro/Tour/Vuelta ridden at 25km/h with riders passing out ala Nicole Cooke style after the finish with the top 10 separated by 5 seconds for people to truly believe it.
I'm with you on the doping was the rule not the exception previously. I don't think it is the case anymore though - I would imagine more riders don't dope than do at the moment. In my opinion anyway.
He almost pulled off a win in the uphill TT too. Sella did look like he suffered when he won the first Dolomites stage. But when he repeated the performance the very next day, it raises red flags, especially since he was not the only climber in the group.Eldron said:
I heard conflicting reports about Christian Vande Velde going to a classification result, then Vaughters saying he is going for the top 10 at the Tour.Eldron said:
We need to baseline their form, if Millar is at his peak and cannot timetrial like he did in Spain last year, he has questions to answer.
Vandevelde might not be on a Giro peak, and be looing to top 10 at the Tour. If that is the case, we cant judge him for coming in with the autobus.
However, if he intended to ride GC, he may have misjudged how much the doping played a part in results.
Further irony can be drawn from the fact that Kloden pointed the finger st CSF at the start of the Giro. Then CSF start riding for Astana then Kloden pulls out of the race !! Go figure......
The UCI will announce next week that Kloden has invalid blood parameters & must take two weeks out of the sport. Bruynneel was asked to remove him as Kloden finishing wouldn't be good for the team.
The UCI will announce next week that Kloden has invalid blood parameters & must take two weeks out of the sport. Bruynneel was asked to remove him as Kloden finishing wouldn't be good for the team.
It would have been very interesting if he had not conceded that 14+ minutes on the stage when he crashed with Leipheimer, Visconti, etc.TheDarkLord said:
The protagonists either would have marked his moves or limited the damages, rather than giving him his head.
Its amazing how close you become when sharing needles:
“It is amazing what the others did for me. Riders like Levi Leipheimer and Andreas Klöden, who are potential Grand Tour winners themselves, worked for me like all other teammates did: Assan Bazayev, Toni Colom, Vladimir Gusev, Maxim Iglinskiy, Andrey Mizurov and Steve Morabito. A sick Andreas Klöden did so much for me. I didn’t know him well before this Giro. I think I have found a new friend. It is amazing how we all grew close to each other during these weeks,” the ‘07 Tour and now ’08 Giro winner said.
“It is amazing what the others did for me. Riders like Levi Leipheimer and Andreas Klöden, who are potential Grand Tour winners themselves, worked for me like all other teammates did: Assan Bazayev, Toni Colom, Vladimir Gusev, Maxim Iglinskiy, Andrey Mizurov and Steve Morabito. A sick Andreas Klöden did so much for me. I didn’t know him well before this Giro. I think I have found a new friend. It is amazing how we all grew close to each other during these weeks,” the ‘07 Tour and now ’08 Giro winner said.
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