Russia tests world's biggest bomb

[Carrera]

There were a lot of defects of the communist and East German system but now I can see there are similar faults in Europe and the U.S. If you look at the whole picture, you can see how the communists got things wrong and how the capitalists are also getting things wrong.
You could go on and on about the mistakes made by communists. I mean, at first Krushchev appeared promising for the Soviet Union with his approach to agriculture and the virgin lands. Mr K managed to produce a whole bumper harvest of corn in the Ukraine and really get the ball rolling. However, Russian history went on to judge Mr. K as a failed, hasty and impulsive leader. He even nearly caused WW3.
Brezhnev was looked upon more respectfully and, in fact, the USSR was doing pretty well at that period before it started to stagnate and dry up under Andropov and Chernenko.
In the west, believe it or not, the same situation is happening. This is my view, right or wrong. I view the west as on the way to stagnation and being too complacent. America seems to be losing its democracy and moral high ground by compromising values it adhered to even during WW2. Europe is being run by too many idealists and I get the feeling we're going to see increased nationalist conflicts within member states - as always happened in European history.
I do feel very optimistic for China. Seems like China is really getting things right so China could be like one huge version of Japan. China is already producing more science grads than any other nation, Russia and the U.S. included. It's relying on manufacturing as the back bone of its economy as the U.S. did back in the fifties.
However, I may be wrong.

Again you get the logic twisted. All communist States are centrally planned does not equal All centrally planned States are communist. The former statement was mine. The poster I was referencing was stating the opinion that Russia could have succeeded in its communist endeavour if it had been able to digress away from being centrally planned.

Even though I'm struggling with your definition of Japan and Sweden being centrally planned. IMO It is a gray area rather than a black or white definition in their case. Some things in those countries are centrally planned....some things aren't.

However communist countries were entirely centrally planned. It was part of the definition of communism. It was very black and white.

 

[9202]

There was a documentary on T.V. about that sheriff in Arizona. There was an uproar about that guy but the worry is nothing has been done about him. This guy is running chain gangs and to illustrate what a dinosaur he is, he was quoted as stating people who suffered child abuse use the situation as a crutch to commit crimes. So, an individual who was raised by an alcoholic mother and abusive father is simply going to turn out emotionally stable and gain employment, correct? Well, I very much doubt it.
I can't quite work out why such people are put into positions of responsibility in America without being removed or even prosecuted. I mean, come on, chain gangs in this century is beyond belief. Only China has a system that comes close.
Of course, I understand there are very many Americans who are outraged, but there should be far greater safeguards to accomplish the very thing Condi Rice was urging Putin to do - protect ordinary citizens from an overbearing State. I do think it would have been awesome if Putin had confronted Condi Rice with a full report of the chain gangs in the U.S. and the fact gun-tooting, right-wing sheriffs are allowed to bypass the most basic human rights norms and treat often disadvantaged people as garbage.
I can't figure out why if Americans have a constitution they're not in actual fact protected from regional dictators e.t.c.

Whoa,

What planet did you get off of. Of course a sheriff is not beyond prosecution. But to say that these people are regional dictators, and chain gangs are comprised if disadvantaged people is beyond belief.

What you espouse is left wing socialist nonsense, just as bad as the right wing extremists.

Documentaries are a tool for the film maker to tell a story the way he want's it to be seen. If you watch a documentary and unconditionally believe the film makers view as fact, then you need to open your eyes and your mind.

This is whole discussion is short sighted and unbelievable. Self perpetuating closed minded nonsense.

 

[Crankyfeet]

Whoa,

What planet did you get off of. Of course a sheriff is not beyond prosecution. But to say that these people are regional dictators, and chain gangs are comprised if disadvantaged people is beyond belief.

What you espouse is left wing socialist nonsense, just as bad as the right wing extremists.

Documentaries are a tool for the film maker to tell a story the way he want's it to be seen. If you watch a documentary and unconditionally believe the film makers view as fact, then you need to open your eyes and your mind.

This is whole discussion is short sighted and unbelievable. Self perpetuating closed minded nonsense.

Um..as much as I may not disagree with your views on media documentaries...I think you are ironically the one displaying close-mindedness.

Carrera may have a different viewpoint but he gives me the impression he hasn't made up his mind on everything for the rest of his life like you seem to have.

In any case, why join a discussion forum, if you don't want to discuss/debate anything? Unless you just want to pat backs with people who think the same as you do.

 

[9202]

There were a lot of defects of the communist and East German system but now I can see there are similar faults in Europe and the U.S. If you look at the whole picture, you can see how the communists got things wrong and how the capitalists are also getting things wrong.
You could go on and on about the mistakes made by communists. I mean, at first Krushchev appeared promising for the Soviet Union with his approach to agriculture and the virgin lands. Mr K managed to produce a whole bumper harvest of corn in the Ukraine and really get the ball rolling. However, Russian history went on to judge Mr. K as a failed, hasty and impulsive leader. He even nearly caused WW3.
Brezhnev was looked upon more respectfully and, in fact, the USSR was doing pretty well at that period before it started to stagnate and dry up under Andropov and Chernenko.
In the west, believe it or not, the same situation is happening. This is my view, right or wrong. I view the west as on the way to stagnation and being too complacent. America seems to be losing its democracy and moral high ground by compromising values it adhered to even during WW2. Europe is being run by too many idealists and I get the feeling we're going to see increased nationalist conflicts within member states - as always happened in European history.
I do feel very optimistic for China. Seems like China is really getting things right so China could be like one huge version of Japan. China is already producing more science grads than any other nation, Russia and the U.S. included. It's relying on manufacturing as the back bone of its economy as the U.S. did back in the fifties.
However, I may be wrong.

Man, what a piece of work you are. Rewriting history, economics, and an expert on US freedoms.

Give me a break!
Not worth the time or effort to even read.

 

[Carrera]

Hmmm, I don't see the problem. This sheriff is known worldwide. I've even seen him interviewed on T.V. I see no way of defending him or his prisons. I'll admit I may have come on strong in the original post but that was probably because I was annoyed after having seen the documentary.
If this dude isn't a regional dictator who's exhibiting marginalised people in chain gangs then what is he?
This has to be one of the few individuals I hear of who even makes Saddam Hussein look like Mary Poppins.

Whoa,

What planet did you get off of. Of course a sheriff is not beyond prosecution. But to say that these people are regional dictators, and chain gangs are comprised if disadvantaged people is beyond belief.

What you espouse is left wing socialist nonsense, just as bad as the right wing extremists.

Documentaries are a tool for the film maker to tell a story the way he want's it to be seen. If you watch a documentary and unconditionally believe the film makers view as fact, then you need to open your eyes and your mind.

This is whole discussion is short sighted and unbelievable. Self perpetuating closed minded nonsense.

 

[nns1400]

This has to be one of the few individuals I hear of who even makes Saddam Hussein look like Mary Poppins.

Carerra, that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. They aren't "marginalized people" he rounded up off the street, they're criminals for one thing. And to compare his "harsh" jails where they have to live in a tent, wear pink underwear and eat baloney, and even work in a chain gang, is nothing compared to Saddam Hussein...surely you've seen a documentary about him sometime or other haven't you?

 

[Carrera]

Well, that's your choice to choose simply not to read. Personally I think there's been so much talk of democratic societies that respect human rights it's simply become accepted as fact. No questioning or looking at the overall picture.
You have to see the otehr side in life and put yourself in the situation of those people who choose to live a different way.

Man, what a piece of work you are. Rewriting history, economics, and an expert on US freedoms.

Give me a break!
Not worth the time or effort to even read.

 

[Carrera]

Hmmmm, the Saddam comment was intended as a bit of light humour. It wasn't meant to be taken quite so literally.
I think from what I saw some of the people in that jail were pulled up for stuff like prostitution or drugs. Some times it was major crime and some times petty crime.
This argument about crime has been going on for many years. Let me share one simple fact I can vouch for:
The area where I reside has high crime. I've been a victim of such crime myself, including an attempted assault not too long ago. Plus the stolen bike. I don't really have a good deal of time for folks who steal bikes or cause problems but, at any rate, we have crime where I live.
Now, back in the seventies, there was far less crime. I recall it quite well. In the fifties, before I was born, crime was virtually unknown and guys opened doors for ladies on buses e.t.c. I know because my gran was born at the turn of the century and remembered the fifties well.
What changed to bring about all this crime? Did people somehow change or did society change? If you choose the second option, the question begs to be asked: How then can we get eliminate crime? By social reform or the methods in Arizona I raised ages ago in this thread (that somehow resurfaced after many months )
Myself, I think you have to address the root causes is what I'm saying. That means family units, reasonable discipline and employment/educational opportunities.
So I still think that sheriff is a dinosaur!!

Carerra, that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. They aren't "marginalized people" he rounded up off the street, they're criminals for one thing. And to compare his "harsh" jails where they have to live in a tent, wear pink underwear and eat baloney, and even work in a chain gang, is nothing compared to Saddam Hussein...surely you've seen a documentary about him sometime or other haven't you?

 

[Carrera]

Appreciated and thanks. If it helps, I decided to tone down my act since I last wrote that post, although sometimes my posts included a touch of black humour - the idea being to shock people into thinking a few things over.
My intention isn't to deliberately offend so I'd probably have worded that original post a little differently in hindsight.
Also, what would John Lennon have had to say? He started a national protest movement to support the guy who was jailed for 10 years after being caught with dope, during the Vietnam protests. Lennon raised hell and even wrote a song about the guy's situation.
I'll bet he'd coin a song about that Arizona sheriff too!

Um..as much as I may not disagree with your views on media documentaries...I think you are ironically the one displaying close-mindedness.

Carrera may have a different viewpoint but he gives me the impression he hasn't made up his mind on everything for the rest of his life like you seem to have.

In any case, why join a discussion forum, if you don't want to discuss/debate anything? Unless you just want to pat backs with people who think the same as you do.

 

[sogood]

Talk about human rights and US's position. Just take a look at the recent rape victim's case in Saudi Arabia. And what did the US do? Just paid some lip service and that's it. After all, it's against the US interest to annoy the Saudis and affect its oil supply. So even for the US, human right is a commodity with a price. Beyond which it's over-valued.

 

[Crankyfeet]

Talk about human rights and US's position. Just take a look at the recent rape victim's case in Saudi Arabia. And what did the US do? Just paid some lip service and that's it. After all, it's against the US interest to annoy the Saudis and affect its oil supply. So even for the US, human right is a commodity with a price. Beyond which it's over-valued.

US foreign policy is full of duplicity and hypocrisy. But that is only because at the base of it, they are going to do what's best for the US, and then they try to spin their motives to appease the world and the voting public. But it is nothing unusual. All countries act to maximize gain for themselves. Its just that most countries have little influence and the US has huge influence.

But the world has to keep watch. Because what's good for the US is not necessarily good for the world. And even what the US government deems as good for the US isn't even necessarily good for the US, let alone the world. And unfortunately the world gets no votes in the US election, but has to accept US foreign policy and its effects.

But the US is not evil...and even when mistakes are made...the US system ensures that eventually some sense is brought to bear.

 

[sogood]

US foreign policy is full of duplicity and hypocrisy. But that is only because at the base of it, they are going to do what's best for the US, and then they try to spin their motives to appease the world and the voting public. But it is nothing unusual. All countries act to maximize gain for themselves. Its just that most countries have little influence and the US has huge influence.

Agreed, and the US is particularly willing to spin their motives. It's like a sermon of do what I say but not what I do.

But in terms of whether it's evil. That depends on how the party is affected by US's policy. It's definitely evil when lives are lost because of it eg. Iraq, support for the various repressive regimes. When a country meddles in the domestic affairs of another country, evil invariably creeps in.

 

[nns1400]

Agreed, and the US is particularly willing to spin their motives. It's like a sermon of do what I say but not what I do.

But in terms of whether it's evil. That depends on how the party is affected by US's policy. It's definitely evil when lives are lost because of it eg. Iraq, support for the various repressive regimes. When a country meddles in the domestic affairs of another country, evil invariably creeps in.

But communism isn't evil...

 

[sogood]

But communism isn't evil...

Nowhere in the post did it say communism isn't evil.

But seriously, the source of evil lies with the individual. Maybe one can say that all men/women in power are evil.

It's funny how cold war warriors and those similarly brain washed can only see problems in black and white where there's capitalism or communism. Believe it or not, there are many harmonious societies on this planet that operate somewhere in between of the two extreme.

 

[Carrera]

Communism has its roots in ancient Greece, same as democracy. It was basically the Spartans who structured their State on similar lines to communism. They had no currency to speak of, individuality came second to the interests of the collective good, wealth and luxury were frowned upon and everybody did military training. That included the women who boxed. Funnily enough, there was almost no crime at all. We have huge crime today because our society is basically selfish and materialistic, as well as a bit pampered.
This is why Plato was a big fan of the Spartans but I guess I should add not all Greeks lived like the Spartans. The Athenians were more like Americans and also imperialistic forcing Athenian democracy on others when it suited them.
At any rate, after Plato, the idea of communism was taken up by Tolstoy and then refined by Marx and Engels in Germany (I think).
The real genius was Lenin. A lot of people think when Stalin came later on, he distorted Lenin's original conception of a communist superstate.
By the way, I don't genuinely believe we'd all be better off under communism. I figure if you mixed communism up with capitalism it might be a better option. I think Sweden came pretty close to a better system than what emerged in the USSR.

But communism isn't evil...

 

[Carrera]

It seems recently the U.S. is acting in a way that's harming themselves. although maybe they're not aware of it. I really don't know if this idea of setting up a missile defence in Czech Republic is a good one as, if it goes ahead, relations with Russia will deteriorate. In fact, as Putin warned, it will turn Europe into a powder keg as Russia will pull out of arms restrictions and can now afford to bolster its missile program. There's also some move towards a military alliance with China and with Europe considering an alternative to NATO, everything is going to change.
It could well be George W Bush will go down in history as the focal point of America's decline and fall, similar to Gorbachev in Russia who's blamed for destroying the USSR.
If things don't go the U.S.'s way, they could be facing a new Cold War with Russia and China, a powerful Yen, Europe pulling out of NATO to head a European security structure as well as the Euro currency.
All this is happening because the U.S. has taken a unilateral aproach and ignored the sentiments of key allies, Russia included. After all, Russia was co-operative after 9/11 but seemingly got a slap in the face for their trouble.

US foreign policy is full of duplicity and hypocrisy. But that is only because at the base of it, they are going to do what's best for the US, and then they try to spin their motives to appease the world and the voting public. But it is nothing unusual. All countries act to maximize gain for themselves. Its just that most countries have little influence and the US has huge influence.

But the world has to keep watch. Because what's good for the US is not necessarily good for the world. And even what the US government deems as good for the US isn't even necessarily good for the US, let alone the world. And unfortunately the world gets no votes in the US election, but has to accept US foreign policy and its effects.

But the US is not evil...and even when mistakes are made...the US system ensures that eventually some sense is brought to bear.

 

[sogood]

All this is happening because the U.S. has taken a unilateral aproach and ignored the sentiments of key allies, Russia included. After all, Russia was co-operative after 9/11 but seemingly got a slap in the face for their trouble.

It's the arrogant style of the current US administration isn't it?

Just watched a documentary "Showdown with Iran" <http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/showdown/> and exactly the same was presented with Iran. Iran assisted the US before and during the war in Afghanistan. Instead of rewarding Iran for their assistance, they were labeled as the Axis of Evil. Further, the US denied the assistance of Iran in the occupation of Iraq and used the occupation there to add additional geopolitical pressure on the country. All in all, deliberately turning Iran into an enemy and undermining the pro-Western Iranian leaders of that time. One has to wonder just what the US was thinking? Just who is the real war monger?

 

[9202]

Well Communism hasn't failed - look at China!
It is still a Communist country and look at it's economic transformation

Yeah, in Shanghai, but have you toured most of China these days. Poverty, poverty and more poverty.

 

[Crankyfeet]

It seems recently the U.S. is acting in a way that's harming themselves. although maybe they're not aware of it. I really don't know if this idea of setting up a missile defence in Czech Republic is a good one as, if it goes ahead, relations with Russia will deteriorate. In fact, as Putin warned, it will turn Europe into a powder keg as Russia will pull out of arms restrictions and can now afford to bolster its missile program. There's also some move towards a military alliance with China and with Europe considering an alternative to NATO, everything is going to change.
It could well be George W Bush will go down in history as the focal point of America's decline and fall, similar to Gorbachev in Russia who's blamed for destroying the USSR.
If things don't go the U.S.'s way, they could be facing a new Cold War with Russia and China, a powerful Yen, Europe pulling out of NATO to head a European security structure as well as the Euro currency.
All this is happening because the U.S. has taken a unilateral aproach and ignored the sentiments of key allies, Russia included. After all, Russia was co-operative after 9/11 but seemingly got a slap in the face for their trouble.

How old are you Carrera? I just got a feeling your avatar is a bluff and you're in your early to mid-twenties.

 

[sogood]

Yeah, in Shanghai, but have you toured most of China these days. Poverty, poverty and more poverty.

Poor and quite poor. So what's the reason why the US was so eager to elevate China out of its 3rd world country status for FTA negotiations? In any case, the poors in the slums of Harlem and New Orleans aren't much better.