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innocent motorists

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UK and Europe
Published
17 September 2004
Last activity
25 October 2004
Original author
Ian Smith
Posts
28
Discussion status
Public discussion
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  1. You know how over on uk.t*****t all motorists are poor persecuted
    innocents? My local paper (just shoved through the door) has a report
    about a random police check they ran 100 yds down teh road from here
    last Tuesday.

    They stopped about 100 cars. Apparently:
    42 were not properly taxed
    23 received fixed penalty notices for not wearing seatbelts
    2 were ordered off teh road as unsafe vehicles
    5 were given orders to have repairs made immediately
    1 had no licence or insurance
    10 received varous verbal warnings

    Not quite 20 per cent were actually fully legal....
    (and that without examining speed).

    regards, Ian SMith
    --
    |\ /| no .sig
    |o o|
    |/ \|

  2. Ian Smith said:

    You know how over on uk.t*****t all motorists are poor persecuted
    innocents? My local paper (just shoved through the door) has a report
    about a random police check they ran 100 yds down teh road from here
    last Tuesday.

    They stopped about 100 cars. Apparently:
    42 were not properly taxed
    23 received fixed penalty notices for not wearing seatbelts
    2 were ordered off teh road as unsafe vehicles
    5 were given orders to have repairs made immediately
    1 had no licence or insurance
    10 received varous verbal warnings

    Not quite 20 per cent were actually fully legal....
    (and that without examining speed).

    regards, Ian SMith

    I'd be interested to know if that's actually accurate, or whether
    they've reported (as an example) 42 not taxed, 23 not wearing seatbelts,
    of which 15 were both not taxed nor wearing seatbelts, which would lead
    you to surmise that actually, more than 20% were fully legal..

    Any indications of how they've dealt with the same car being in more
    than one catagory?

    --

    Velvet

  3. Ian Smith said:

    You know how over on uk.t*****t all motorists are poor persecuted
    innocents? My local paper (just shoved through the door) has a report
    about a random police check they ran 100 yds down teh road from here
    last Tuesday.

    They stopped about 100 cars. Apparently:
    42 were not properly taxed
    23 received fixed penalty notices for not wearing seatbelts
    2 were ordered off teh road as unsafe vehicles
    5 were given orders to have repairs made immediately
    1 had no licence or insurance
    10 received varous verbal warnings

    Not quite 20 per cent were actually fully legal....
    (and that without examining speed).

    Was this a council estate? About half the cars used to be untaxed in
    the Parks (Swindon). I used to walk through there on my way back from
    town quite regularly. Most of them looked as if they were regularly
    driven (i.e. not steamed up, covered in algae or with flat tyres).

  4. Velvet said:
    Ian Smith said:

    They stopped about 100 cars. Apparently:
    42 were not properly taxed
    23 received fixed penalty notices for not wearing seatbelts
    2 were ordered off teh road as unsafe vehicles
    5 were given orders to have repairs made immediately
    1 had no licence or insurance
    10 received varous verbal warnings

    I'd be interested to know if that's actually accurate, or whether
    they've reported (as an example) 42 not taxed, 23 not wearing seatbelts,
    of which 15 were both not taxed nor wearing seatbelts, which would lead
    you to surmise that actually, more than 20% were fully legal..

    I wondered that as well, which is why I put in teh 'apparently'.
    However, even if you put it on the minimum possible spread (at least
    as unlikely) there's 40% or so at fault. It _is_ possible that the
    figures as presented are correct - if they worked down a checklist
    until they got to one failure in order to then justify giving the
    motorist some general road safety pep-talk, for example, they'd find
    no more than one failure per car.

    Anyway, teh casualty reduction officer quoted in teh article has
    attended teh local cycle forum meetings, so I may get an opportunity
    to find more details.

    Meanwhile, on teh next page, a driver who managed 80mph, lost control,
    left the road and ran up a bank, cleared a fence, rolled over twice in
    a field teh other side, had false number plates on and told police at
    the scene that someone else had been driving ... walked free from
    court because although found guilty, had already been remanded in
    custody for six weeks.

    regards, Ian SMith
    --
    |\ /| no .sig
    |o o|
    |/ \|

  5. Ian Smith said:

    On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 18:56:52 GMT, Velvet <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Ian Smith said:

    They stopped about 100 cars. Apparently:
    42 were not properly taxed
    23 received fixed penalty notices for not wearing seatbelts
    2 were ordered off teh road as unsafe vehicles
    5 were given orders to have repairs made immediately
    1 had no licence or insurance
    10 received varous verbal warnings

    I'd be interested to know if that's actually accurate, or whether
    they've reported (as an example) 42 not taxed, 23 not wearing
    seatbelts, of which 15 were both not taxed nor wearing seatbelts,
    which would lead you to surmise that actually, more than 20% were
    fully legal..

    I wondered that as well, which is why I put in teh 'apparently'.
    However, even if you put it on the minimum possible spread (at least
    as unlikely) there's 40% or so at fault. It _is_ possible that the
    figures as presented are correct - if they worked down a checklist
    until they got to one failure in order to then justify giving the
    motorist some general road safety pep-talk, for example, they'd find
    no more than one failure per car.

    Anyway, teh casualty reduction officer quoted in teh article has
    attended teh local cycle forum meetings, so I may get an opportunity
    to find more details.

    Meanwhile, on teh next page, a driver who managed 80mph, lost control,
    left the road and ran up a bank, cleared a fence, rolled over twice in
    a field teh other side, had false number plates on and told police at
    the scene that someone else had been driving ... walked free from
    court because although found guilty, had already been remanded in
    custody for six weeks.

    regards, Ian SMith

    What's all this "teh" about?

    Apart from that, the (teh?) odds against 42% of a random sample of cars not
    being properly taxed must be pretty high. Especially as only 1% had "no
    licence or insurance". Sounds pretty dubious to me.

    BTW any connection with SAfespeed?

    Brian

  6. Quoted message said:

    BTW any connection with SAfespeed?

    Ignore that. Confusing you with Paul Smith.

    Brian


  7. Quoted message said:

    Apart from that, the (teh?) odds against 42% of a random sample of cars not
    being properly taxed must be pretty high. Especially as only 1% had "no
    licence or insurance". Sounds pretty dubious to me.

    BTW any connection with SAfespeed?

    Brian

    I'm guessing the 'not properly taxed' bit refers to people not having
    the tax disc in the right place on the windscreen. Originally you were
    allowed to put it anywhere on the far left of the windscreen (as seen
    from driver viewpoint) but now I think they want it on the bottom left
    only so that camera's can pick up the details easier. They don't like
    seeing them in the middle or top.

  8. Only 1 with no insurance or licence? Recent spot checks in my area
    (Hull) found that over 20% of drivers were uninsured. Perhaps not
    surprisingly OVER HALF of all crashes resulting in death or injury in
    Hull result in a 'hit and run' offence. On top of that are the huge
    number of motorists driving around with a mobile phone held to ther
    ear, the 80% or so who habitually speed, the 75% who will 'cut up' a
    cyclist at a pinch point...

    Innocent drivers? Don't make me laugh! As J.S. Dean of the pedestrians
    association wrote in his 1947 book 'Murder most foul: a study of the
    road deaths problem:

    'The trouble with the facts about the law-breaking of the motorists
    and the motor interests is that there are too many: it is difficult
    even to grasp them. In fact, the position has long since passed far
    beyond the limits of ordinary law-breaking and become an exhibition of
    national degeneracy.'

  9. On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 22:26:23 +0100, "BrianW" <[email hidden]> wrote
    in message <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    What's all this "teh" about?

    Ian's characteristic typo.

    Quoted message said:

    Apart from that, the (teh?) odds against 42% of a random sample of cars not
    being properly taxed must be pretty high. Especially as only 1% had "no
    licence or insurance". Sounds pretty dubious to me.

    Not really. They didn't say how many they /didn't/ stop. Plod won't
    generally pull people over in spot-checks unless they think there is
    something to find.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

  10. On 18 Sep 2004 01:29:33 -0700, [email hidden] (Howard)

    wrote in message : said:

    'The trouble with the facts about the law-breaking of the motorists
    and the motor interests is that there are too many: it is difficult
    even to grasp them. In fact, the position has long since passed far
    beyond the limits of ordinary law-breaking and become an exhibition of
    national degeneracy.'

    This is the .sig on my private email, since about four months ago :-)

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

  11. BrianW said:

    BTW any connection with SAfespeed?

    You may not have noticed (evidently haven't), but there is more than
    one person with teh name "Smith" in this country.

    Have you got any connection with the magic roundabout?

    regards, Ian SMith
    --
    |\ /| no .sig
    |o o|
    |/ \|

  12. Just zis Guy said:

    On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 22:26:23 +0100, "BrianW" <[email hidden]> wrote
    in message <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    What's all this "teh" about?

    Ian's characteristic typo.

    Quoted message said:

    Apart from that, the (teh?) odds against 42% of a random sample of cars not
    being properly taxed must be pretty high. Especially as only 1% had "no
    licence or insurance". Sounds pretty dubious to me.

    Not really. They didn't say how many they /didn't/ stop. Plod won't
    generally pull people over in spot-checks unless they think there is
    something to find.

    Guy

    Then it wasn't "a random police check" as stated by the OP, was it?

    Mark Atherton

  13. On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 12:55:41 +0100, Mark Atherton
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Not really. They didn't say how many they /didn't/ stop. Plod won't
    generally pull people over in spot-checks unless they think there is
    something to find.

    Quoted message said:

    Then it wasn't "a random police check" as stated by the OP, was it?

    Why not? Location could have been random, they could have included a
    random sample of non-supicious cars, they could have ppulled 50 random
    and 50 suspicious looking - we don't know the parameters.

    We do know that there is widespread lawlessness on the roads.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

  14. "Martin Wilson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I'm guessing the 'not properly taxed' bit refers to people not having
    the tax disc in the right place on the windscreen. Originally you were
    allowed to put it anywhere on the far left of the windscreen (as seen
    from driver viewpoint) but now I think they want it on the bottom left
    only so that camera's can pick up the details easier. They don't like
    seeing them in the middle or top.

    Er - you're talking nonsense. Cameras work on numberplates, not the tax
    disc. Automatically reading the latter would be really quite hard.

    "You must display this disc on the left-hand side of the vehicle's
    windscreen. If the vehicle does not have a windscreen fitted, you will need
    to display the disc on the nearside of the vehicle (the passenger side)." -
    from the DVLA website. Note no mention of bottom or top.

    cheers,
    clive

  15. Clive George said:

    "Martin Wilson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Er - you're talking nonsense. Cameras work on numberplates, not the
    tax disc. Automatically reading the latter would be really quite hard.

    On my way out of Hamble last week I cycled past a white camera van parked in
    the station layby. Marked on its side was "Vehicle Licence Camera Unit". So
    there.

    Interestingly, It had the side-effect of making motorists slow down to 30mph
    until they'd passed it, which was interesting as it's a 40 limit along
    there!

  16. Simonb said:
    Clive George said:

    "Martin Wilson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Er - you're talking nonsense. Cameras work on numberplates, not the
    tax disc. Automatically reading the latter would be really quite hard.

    On my way out of Hamble last week I cycled past a white camera van parked in
    the station layby. Marked on its side was "Vehicle Licence Camera Unit". So
    there.

    Interestingly, It had the side-effect of making motorists slow down to 30mph
    until they'd passed it, which was interesting as it's a 40 limit along
    there!

    But is it reading the tax discs or the numberplates? Having read each
    plate it's simply a matter of looking it up in the database to see
    whether a tax disc has been issued. Gone are the days hen you could
    get away with the label from a Guinness bottle.

    --
    Dave...

    Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

  17. NC said:

    They work on numberplates

    Okay cleverclogs (both of you).

  18. Simonb said:
    Clive George said:

    "Martin Wilson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Er - you're talking nonsense. Cameras work on numberplates, not the
    tax disc. Automatically reading the latter would be really quite
    hard.

    On my way out of Hamble last week I cycled past a white camera van
    parked in the station layby. Marked on its side was "Vehicle Licence
    Camera Unit". So there.

    They work on numberplates; read the numberplate, then look up the records
    at Swansea for VED payments against that registration.

    - Nigel

    --
    NC - Webmaster for http://www.2mm.org.uk/
    Replies to newsgroup postings to the newsgroup please.

  19. "Mark Atherton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Then it wasn't "a random police check" as stated by the OP, was it?

    A lot (most?) of law enforcement is random.
    And in this case whether or not the police were targetting certain types of
    vehicle it was down to luck that the offenders passed through the net at
    that time, therefore the chances of getting nicked were random (As opposed
    to police turning up at their house to check their car after a careful
    scrutiny of records).
    But in the strict sense a plan to stop motorists to check for irregularities
    can't be random simply because the people are being stopped for meeting a
    certain criteria, namely driving a vehicle.

    Next pedant continue here:

    Pete :-)

  20. [email hidden] (Howard) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Only 1 with no insurance or licence? Recent spot checks in my area
    (Hull) found that over 20% of drivers were uninsured. Perhaps not
    surprisingly OVER HALF of all crashes resulting in death or injury in
    Hull result in a 'hit and run' offence. On top of that are the huge
    number of motorists driving around with a mobile phone held to ther
    ear, the 80% or so who habitually speed, the 75% who will 'cut up' a
    cyclist at a pinch point...

    You should see the fun and games caused by the new bus only lane
    outside Queen's Gardens. Traffic wardens are directing cars back down
    Guildhall Road and they are not happy bunnies!

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