£47.50 + VAT

MSeries said:

I have been thinking about describing my favourite rides on my website,
obviously including a map would beneficial. I use OS maps so it would
be best to scan the relevant parts and superimpose my route on it. I
understand that copying an OS map is illegal for most purposes so I
emailed them to check. To do what I want would mean I need to buy a
licence for £47.50+VAT. Stuff that, I'll draw them myself !

If you do, especially now that they know who you are, be careful not to
use their maps as a base for your own since you may still required a
license.

Colin

Colin Blackburn said:

On 22 Sep 2004 03:51:16 -0700, MSeries <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have been thinking about describing my favourite rides on my

website,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

obviously including a map would beneficial. I use OS maps so it

would

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be best to scan the relevant parts and superimpose my route on it.

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

understand that copying an OS map is illegal for most purposes so I
emailed them to check. To do what I want would mean I need to buy a
licence for £47.50+VAT. Stuff that, I'll draw them myself !

If you do, especially now that they know who you are, be careful not

to

Quoted message said:

use their maps as a base for your own since you may still required a

Quoted message said:

license.

Colin

I didn't give them my URL so they'll have to do some digging to find
me. There is no way they can demand a licence if I decide to draw a
map, roads are roads, directions are directions. I am talking about
using a pen & paper to draw a map, then scanning it, not trying to
electronically alter an OS one to appear home made, not even tracing a
map - though a perfect home made map should look like a tracing.

MSeries said:

Colin Blackburn said:

On 22 Sep 2004 03:51:16 -0700, MSeries <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<snip> I understand that copying an OS map is illegal for most

purposes so I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

emailed them to check. To do what I want would mean I need to buy

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

licence for £47.50+VAT. Stuff that, I'll draw them myself !

If you do, especially now that they know who you are, be careful

not

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

use their maps as a base for your own since you may still required

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

license.

Quoted message said:

I didn't give them my URL so they'll have to do some digging to find
me. There is no way they can demand a licence if I decide to draw a
map, roads are roads, directions are directions. I am talking about
using a pen & paper to draw a map, then scanning it, not trying to
electronically alter an OS one to appear home made, not even tracing

a

Quoted message said:

map - though a perfect home made map should look like a tracing.

I have been told that OS maps include a few signature "features" to aid
the tracking of unlicensed copies. I don't know of this is an urban
myth though, nor what level of detail would need to be copied to be
detectable

best wishes
james

It's not an urban myth the AA got caught out for £20M in 2001
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,447171,00.html

--
----------
LeeG
-----------
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

MSeries said:

Colin Blackburn said:

On 22 Sep 2004 03:51:16 -0700, MSeries <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<snip> I understand that copying an OS map is illegal for most

purposes so I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

emailed them to check. To do what I want would mean I need to buy

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

licence for £47.50+VAT. Stuff that, I'll draw them myself !

If you do, especially now that they know who you are, be careful

not

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

use their maps as a base for your own since you may still required

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

license.

Quoted message said:

I didn't give them my URL so they'll have to do some digging to find
me. There is no way they can demand a licence if I decide to draw a
map, roads are roads, directions are directions. I am talking about
using a pen & paper to draw a map, then scanning it, not trying to
electronically alter an OS one to appear home made, not even tracing

a

Quoted message said:

map - though a perfect home made map should look like a tracing.

I have been told that OS maps include a few signature "features" to aid
the tracking of unlicensed copies. I don't know of this is an urban
myth though, nor what level of detail would need to be copied to be
detectable

best wishes
james

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.767 / Virus Database: 514 - Release Date: 21/09/2004

Quoted message said:

I have been told that OS maps include a few signature "features" to

aid

Quoted message said:

the tracking of unlicensed copies. I don't know of this is an urban
myth though, nor what level of detail would need to be copied to be
detectable

best wishes
james

Don't worry guys I am not going to copy them, I am going to draw my own
maps, they'll be an original piece of work created by me.

I'd be very careful if I were you. I used to distribute a peice of
software that downloaded map extracts from Multimap and stitched them
together to make a more useful sized extract. The OS tracked me down and
sent a strongly worded legal letter to my home address which isn't
published anywhere.

The OS Get-a-map website allows you to publish upto 10 of their images
on a website but they are very small extracts.

A cunning legal way to acheive what you want is to use a map that is
more than 50 years old. You can scan this yourself and then guess what -
you own the copyright of the scanned image for the next 50 years !

You can usually track down 6th series 1 inch (equivalent to modern
1:50,000) maps on ebay for a couple of quid. In most rural areas they
are no different from modern maps, although they can be way out of date
around towns and cities. I have quite a collection already, if you tell
me which area you want, I may be able to scan one for you.

--
Andrew Whaley, author of :-

Trailgauge - Shareware 3D GPS Mapping Software
Free Download from http://www.trailgauge.com

MSeries said:

Quoted message said:

I have been told that OS maps include a few signature "features" to

aid

Quoted message said:

the tracking of unlicensed copies. I don't know of this is an urban
myth though, nor what level of detail would need to be copied to be
detectable

best wishes
james

Don't worry guys I am not going to copy them, I am going to draw my own
maps, they'll be an original piece of work created by me.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think you're doing anything morally or
ethically wrong by redrawing maps the way you describe, but you
may still strictly speaking require a license if you use an OS map
as the basis for the copy.

IANAL, but what's the difference between doing that and copying a
book by writing it all out again in your own handwriting, for example?
The contents of the book are copyright, bot the physical book itself.
You might argue that the map only represents something else that is there
to measure or map yourself if you wanted, in which case copying it by
redrawing it is OK. However, if I worte a book describing, for example,
a landscape, it would still be against copyright to use the contents
in another form.

It's be pretty churlish of the OS to come after you, though, and even
harder for them to prove that you used their maps, I'd guess. :-)

--
Trevor Barton

Andrew Whaley said:

I'd be very careful if I were you.

I am going to draw the maps myself, not copy any, not stitch any
together. I am going to use a set of crayons and a sheet of paper.
They'll suffice for others to find my roads on a professional map.
How can this be illegal ?

MSeries said:

Andrew Whaley said:

I'd be very careful if I were you.

I am going to draw the maps myself, not copy any, not stitch any
together. I am going to use a set of crayons and a sheet of paper.
They'll suffice for others to find my roads on a professional map.
How can this be illegal ?

Will you be looking at a copyrighted OS map when you use your crayons?

Colin

MSeries said:

Don't worry guys I am not going to copy them, I am going to draw my own
maps, they'll be an original piece of work created by me.

In the fine tradition of Wainwright.
Good one.

(although, having made wonderful maps, and
glorious prose about the fells, he then
[censored] when people started turning up)

BugBear

In article <[email hidden]>,

MSeries said:

I have been thinking about describing my favourite rides on my website,
obviously including a map would beneficial. I use OS maps so it would
be best to scan the relevant parts and superimpose my route on it. I

I expect you want http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/getamap/

--
Nick Kew

"MSeries" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Andrew Whaley said:

I'd be very careful if I were you.

I am going to draw the maps myself, not copy any, not stitch any
together. I am going to use a set of crayons and a sheet of paper.
They'll suffice for others to find my roads on a professional map.
How can this be illegal ?

One think you could do to get the road positioning right is to take a track
log from a GPS, thus creating your own data.

cheers,
clive

On 22/9/04 12:52 pm, in article [email hidden], "Colin

Blackburn said:

MSeries said:

Andrew Whaley said:

I'd be very careful if I were you.

I am going to draw the maps myself, not copy any, not stitch any
together. I am going to use a set of crayons and a sheet of paper.
They'll suffice for others to find my roads on a professional map.
How can this be illegal ?

Will you be looking at a copyrighted OS map when you use your crayons?

Irrelevant. It is the design and representation that is copyright, not the
underlying position of the roads and trails.

...d

In article
<[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I have been thinking about describing my favourite rides on my website,
obviously including a map would beneficial. I use OS maps so it would
be best to scan the relevant parts and superimpose my route on it. I
understand that copying an OS map is illegal for most purposes so I
emailed them to check. To do what I want would mean I need to buy a
licence for =A347.50+VAT. Stuff that, I'll draw them myself !

I used some OS maps in some design work and was given permission
to use them for free provided:

1. I only used them in my design work
2. I acknowledged the copyright (they gave me a statement to
display with the work)
3. I didn't use the design for commercial purposes
4. I didn't pass on the maps to third parties.

Since this was work for a college course I could meet those
conditions but I'd have been pretty miffed if they'd wanted me to
pay.

Juliette
--

David Martin said:

On 22/9/04 12:52 pm, in article [email hidden],
"Colin
Blackburn" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Will you be looking at a copyrighted OS map when you use your crayons?

Irrelevant. It is the design and representation that is copyright, not
the
underlying position of the roads and trails.

The British Orienteering Federation says:

"Note that the Ordnance Survey has copyright on all material produced by
them, so any map based, however indirectly, on OS material will be in
breach of copyright unless it is licensed by them, and the appropriate
royalty is paid. This is likely to apply to most orienteering maps,
including orienteering maps based on previous orienteering maps."

The "indirectly" there involves using a paper OS map to go out into the
field as a basis for doing the surveying process yourself.

Colin

Colin Blackburn said:

The British Orienteering Federation says:

"Note that the Ordnance Survey has copyright on all material produced by
them, so any map based, however indirectly, on OS material will be in
breach of copyright unless it is licensed by them, and the appropriate
royalty is paid. This is likely to apply to most orienteering maps,
including orienteering maps based on previous orienteering maps."

The "indirectly" there involves using a paper OS map to go out into the
field as a basis for doing the surveying process yourself.

And the OS says, in relation to using their maps as base maps to create
new maps for publication:

"Redrawn maps (also called based on) are maps which are made from our maps
but completely redrawn to suit your needs. They can be drawn or compiled
with reference to Ordnance Survey maps but are not exact or facsimile
copies and do not look like the Ordnance Survey product."

Redrawing a map is category B copying a map as far as the OS's licensing
is concerned. Category B licences are cheaper than category A licences
(for facsimile copying.)

Colin

Colin Blackburn said:

The "indirectly" there involves using a paper OS map to go out into

the

Quoted message said:

field as a basis for doing the surveying process yourself.

Colin

Whoa, thats very interesting. Have they been able to prove anyone has
done this ?

MSeries said:

Colin Blackburn said:

The "indirectly" there involves using a paper OS map to go out into

the

Quoted message said:

field as a basis for doing the surveying process yourself.

Colin

Whoa, thats very interesting. Have they been able to prove anyone has
done this ?

I have no idea. I do know that the British Orienteering Federation pays a
fairly hefty licence fee for all the various maps made using the OS as
base maps. Not all of the BOF's maps are made in this way. Some use
photogrammetric data, some are mapped directly without reference to a base
map.

Colin

On 22/9/04 1:23 pm, in article [email hidden], "Colin

Blackburn said:

The "indirectly" there involves using a paper OS map to go out into the
field as a basis for doing the surveying process yourself.

That must be very tenuous legally. If I were to look at my OS map on my way
to a particular site then that is using an OS map to go out into the field.
But if I then draw a map entirely without reference to the Ordnance Survey
map, how can that be a breach of copyright?

Methinks they are pushing the boundaries as far as they can. Are there any
test cases where this has been upheld as a breach of copyright?

...d