Anyone get screwed with their NYC race#

Joggers whine about the silliest things. You should really let this go.
There are more important things you need to worry about.........like
your personality, and that goofy haircut.

Miss Anne Thrope said:

Joggers whine about the silliest things. You should really let this go.
There are more important things you need to worry about.........like
your personality, and that goofy haircut.

Why are you assuming I have hair? You know what they say about ass
uming, you've performed the first half of the old saying perfectly.

Jsquared

Jsquared said:

Did anyone else get assigned a race number that seems a little out of
whack? Somehow I wound up with an 11000 race number. Now I finished the
race last year in 3:30 and was about 2500th, I turned in another
qualifier where I ran a 3:19 a month later, and had an estimated finish
time of 3:10. So based on last year I should have gotten a sub 2000
number for sure. Has the world gotten that fast in the last 12 months
that 11000 people turned in a sub 3:10 EFT?

First, not all bib numbers are used ! An inspection of the results shows
that bib numbers go all the way up to 49k. It looks like about 2/3-3/4
of the numbers actually belong to a real person.

Second, I suspect a lot of people perhaps just aren't very honest. I got bib
number 1009 with a finish time of 2:53 (that would be a top 250 finish)

Look at the people who got 4:00 - 4:01 last year and some of them have sub
1000 bib numbers.

Quoted message said:

I sent in an email to
registration questioning this and of course got a standard form reply
that I had to stay with the time I registered with. My reply that this
was obviously a data entry error because this IS NOT THE THE TIME I
REGISTERED FOR fell on deaf ears and was never replied to.

Well, it was. The problem is that you were honest and everyone else appears
to be lying.

I don't think email is going to help much.

I have heard (google! use google!!!) that you can try to contact a help desk
at the expo and get this straightened out there. Bring proof of your prior
race times with you.

Or you could always try to show up early and sneak into one of the lower
numbered corrals (wear something over your shirt). Of course the marathon
website offers dire warnings about this, but it's been done before.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi said:

First, not all bib numbers are used ! An inspection of the results shows
that bib numbers go all the way up to 49k. It looks like about 2/3-3/4
of the numbers actually belong to a real person.
Second, I suspect a lot of people perhaps just aren't very honest. I got bib
number 1009 with a finish time of 2:53 (that would be a top 250 finish)

I figured there were a lot of unused numbers but holding out more than
50 or 100 out of a thousand would seem excessive.

Quoted message said:

Look at the people who got 4:00 - 4:01 last year and some of them have sub
1000 bib numbers.

But even most of these guys could be legitimate that just did a major
crash & burn (been there) that should show up in their first 2 splits.

Quoted message said:

Well, it was. The problem is that you were honest and everyone else appears
to be lying.

But you'd think they would have some kind of policy that would only
accept an ET within some percentage of actual results. A 9 minute ET
improvement could be considered reasonable, If I had turned in an ET of
2:45 with 3:30 & 3:19 results from the previous year I'd expect that to
be thrown out.

Quoted message said:

I have heard (google! use google!!!) that you can try to contact a help desk
at the expo and get this straightened out there. Bring proof of your prior
race times with you.

That's the plan but I don't have a lot of confidence in their
willingness to fix it.

Quoted message said:

Or you could always try to show up early and sneak into one of the lower
numbered corrals (wear something over your shirt). Of course the marathon
website offers dire warnings about this, but it's been done before.

I started with a 12000 number last year and worked my way up through the
crowd to being about 45 seconds off the start. It still took me over 9
minutes to make the first mile from the starting mats.

J.J.

Jsquared said:

Quoted message said:

Look at the people who got 4:00 - 4:01 last year and some of them have sub
1000 bib numbers.

But even most of these guys could be legitimate that just did a major
crash & burn (been there) that should show up in their first 2 splits.

I thought of this, but for the most part their splits are just too slow
for this to be the case. Most of them are starting at 8min/mile or slower
which they wouldn't do if they were thinking of sub 3.

Quoted message said:

A 9 minute ET improvement could be considered reasonable, If I had turned in
an ET of 2:45 with 3:30 & 3:19 results from the previous year I'd expect that
to be thrown out.

But you've got to remember that there are some people who've submitted ETs
without any prior results. For example, my ET was a projection based on half
marathon times. I've run a 1:19, 1:21 and 1:22 this year. But I didn't submit
these times, or any proof that I've run them in my application. And I doubt
they checked my records.

Basically, they're using an honor system, and the problem with honor systems
is that they are easy to abuse.

A system that would be less open to abuse would be offering preferred starts
based on documented qualifying times (Chicago does this).

They do have fast starts for runners who are on a local team and meet certain
qualifying standards. That's my plan for getting a spot.

Quoted message said:

I started with a 12000 number last year and worked my way up through the
crowd to being about 45 seconds off the start. It still took me over 9
minutes to make the first mile from the starting mats.

Keep in mind that even if you're running on pace, the first mile of the
race is about 40 seconds slow because of the incline.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

"Jsquared" <[email hidden]> wrote in

Quoted message said:

Did anyone else get assigned a race number that seems a little out of
whack? Somehow I wound up with an 11000 race number. Now I finished the
race last year in 3:30 and was about 2500th, I turned in another
qualifier where I ran a 3:19 a month later, and had an estimated finish
time of 3:10. So based on last year I should have gotten a sub 2000
number for sure. Has the world gotten that fast in the last 12 months
that 11000 people turned in a sub 3:10 EFT?

I think they should do what they did at Boston in the only year I ran it --
your qualifying time gave you your starting place. Period. I think they
should forget about the estimated time...

-- Dan

Dan Stumpus said:

"Jsquared" <[email hidden]> wrote in

Quoted message said:

Did anyone else get assigned a race number that seems a little out of
whack? Somehow I wound up with an 11000 race number. Now I finished the
race last year in 3:30 and was about 2500th, I turned in another
qualifier where I ran a 3:19 a month later, and had an estimated finish
time of 3:10. So based on last year I should have gotten a sub 2000
number for sure. Has the world gotten that fast in the last 12 months
that 11000 people turned in a sub 3:10 EFT?

I think they should do what they did at Boston in the only year I ran it --
your qualifying time gave you your starting place. Period. I think they
should forget about the estimated time...

That works in Boston, because they actually have qualifying times for that,
and a lot of people actually get in on qualifying times.

In New York, the qualifying standards are pretty steep (1:16 and 2:45 for
open men). A lot of people get in via the lottery.

Having said that, I think they should just do away with the honor system.
Honor systems don't work when everyone cheats. Local runners should have run
at least one of the local half marathons, and everyone else could submit a time
from some other race.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Dan Stumpus said:

I think they should do what they did at Boston in the only year I ran it --
your qualifying time gave you your starting place. Period. I think they
should forget about the estimated time...

I would have no problem with this, even my 3:19 qualifyer would have
placed top 1400 last year, so even though a lot of people would have
faster qualifiers than what they would actually run it would still get a
sub 3000 number which should give someone a reasonable shot at a fair
start. I'm just a little suprised that as big as this race has become,
and as many years as they've been doing it, they don't have a tighter
system in place. I was a bit shocked last year to discover that start
control consisted of a bunch of signs along the street numbered in
increments of 1000. It would seem pretty simple to say that below 4
hours we only take a quaifier and assign like Boston and above 4 hours
we'll take an ET.

J.J.

Donovan Rebbechi said:

That works in Boston, because they actually have qualifying times for that,
and a lot of people actually get in on qualifying times.

In New York, the qualifying standards are pretty steep (1:16 and 2:45 for
open men). A lot of people get in via the lottery.

Still, even for lottery entrants it's likely someone would have a half
marathon qualifier. If they didn't, and cared about their start then it
wouldn't be too dificult to find a half to get one, if not they can only
use an ET above 4 hours. When I ran last year it was my first marathon
since 1992 but I still had a sub 1:30 half to turn in. I figured the
12000 number I was stuck with last year was because I had no full
marathon qualifier.

J.J.

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jsquared said:

Did anyone else get assigned a race number that seems a little out of
whack? Somehow I wound up with an 11000 race number. Now I finished the
race last year in 3:30 and was about 2500th, I turned in another
qualifier where I ran a 3:19 a month later, and had an estimated finish
time of 3:10. So based on last year I should have gotten a sub 2000
number for sure. Has the world gotten that fast in the last 12 months
that 11000 people turned in a sub 3:10 EFT?

First, not all bib numbers are used ! An inspection of the results shows
that bib numbers go all the way up to 49k. It looks like about 2/3-3/4
of the numbers actually belong to a real person.

Second, I suspect a lot of people perhaps just aren't very honest. I got

bib

Quoted message said:

number 1009 with a finish time of 2:53 (that would be a top 250 finish)

Look at the people who got 4:00 - 4:01 last year and some of them have sub
1000 bib numbers.

Something doesn't seem right about getting that high a number.
My best time is 3:27 and my number is 4101. When did you enter? Maybe that
has something to do with the assignment of numbers.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I sent in an email to
registration questioning this and of course got a standard form reply
that I had to stay with the time I registered with. My reply that this
was obviously a data entry error because this IS NOT THE THE TIME I
REGISTERED FOR fell on deaf ears and was never replied to.

Well, it was. The problem is that you were honest and everyone else

appears

Quoted message said:

to be lying.

I don't think email is going to help much.

I have heard (google! use google!!!) that you can try to contact a help

desk

Quoted message said:

at the expo and get this straightened out there. Bring proof of your prior
race times with you.

Or you could always try to show up early and sneak into one of the lower
numbered corrals (wear something over your shirt). Of course the marathon
website offers dire warnings about this, but it's been done before.

I was under the impression that the corral system wasn't very well enforced
in NYC based on what others who've run it have told me.

Quoted message said:

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Parker Race said:

Something doesn't seem right about getting that high a number.
My best time is 3:27 and my number is 4101. When did you enter? Maybe that
has something to do with the assignment of numbers.

That was my point exactly! I know a couple people with 3:40+ qualifiers
with 6 & 7000 numbers. But numbers weren't assigned till September and I
was registered long before that.

Quoted message said:

I was under the impression that the corral system wasn't very well enforced
in NYC based on what others who've run it have told me.

It wasn't very well enforced last year but I'd like the peace of mind of
starting where I belong instead of sneaking in to a lower corral and
taking the chance of some over zealous race official taking to heart the
company line of DQ'ing people that don't start where they "belong".

J.J.

Parker Race said:

Something doesn't seem right about getting that high a number.
My best time is 3:27 and my number is 4101. When did you enter? Maybe that
has something to do with the assignment of numbers.

That was my point exactly! I know a couple people with 3:40+ qualifiers
with 6 & 7000 numbers. But numbers weren't assigned till September and I
was registered long before that.

Quoted message said:

I was under the impression that the corral system wasn't very well enforced
in NYC based on what others who've run it have told me.

It wasn't very well enforced last year but I'd like the peace of mind of
starting where I belong instead of sneaking in to a lower corral and
taking the chance of some over zealous race official taking to heart the
company line of DQ'ing people that don't start where they "belong".

J.J.

"Dan Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think they should do what they did at Boston in the only year I ran
it --

your qualifying time gave you your starting place. Period. I think
they
should forget about the estimated time...

Dan, what do you do with those have never run a marathon?

-DF

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think they should do what they did at Boston in the only year I ran
it --

your qualifying time gave you your starting place. Period. I think
they
should forget about the estimated time...

Dan, what do you do with those have never run a marathon?

Obviously, I didn't think this one through :-).

Boston allowed no marathon virgins, other than seeded elites.
If NYC had some qualifying standard, e.g., a half marathon in 2:10, or a 10k
in 60:00, then you could use that. But if anyone can play, I got no
answer...

BTW, I was seeded about 800th at Boston, in the 4th corral, and still ran
about a 6:05 mile 1, 'cause *everyone* was so dang fast...I believe 2000
broke 3 hours.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dan Stumpus said:

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I think they should do what they did at Boston in the only year I ran
> it --
your qualifying time gave you your starting place. Period. I think
they
should forget about the estimated time...

Dan, what do you do with those have never run a marathon?

Obviously, I didn't think this one through :-).

Boston allowed no marathon virgins, other than seeded elites.
If NYC had some qualifying standard, e.g., a half marathon in 2:10, or a 10k
in 60:00, then you could use that. But if anyone can play, I got no
answer...

You just use their half-marathon time, or 10K, or whatever, and project
it out to a Marathon using one of those race calculators. Then penalize
them x number of minutes since there's a good chance they won't live up
to the prediction (with a greater penalty if they submit a 5k time than
if they submit a 20-mile time).

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

Harold Buck said:

Quoted message said:

You just use their half-marathon time, or 10K, or whatever, and project
it out to a Marathon using one of those race calculators. Then penalize
them x number of minutes since there's a good chance they won't live up
to the prediction (with a greater penalty if they submit a 5k time than
if they submit a 20-mile time).

[censored], I signed up for a marathon last week, and I left the estimated
time blank. I've never done any races at all, seemed arrogant to fill in
a time when I had no supporting evidence. Does this mean I'll be
completely behind EVERYBODY at the start? Not that it matters too much,
I suppose, but it helps to be mentally prepared for any set back.

-J

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 23:57:04 GMT, jogger <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Harold Buck said:

Quoted message said:

You just use their half-marathon time, or 10K, or whatever, and project
it out to a Marathon using one of those race calculators. Then penalize
them x number of minutes since there's a good chance they won't live up
to the prediction (with a greater penalty if they submit a 5k time than
if they submit a 20-mile time).

[censored], I signed up for a marathon last week, and I left the estimated
time blank. I've never done any races at all, seemed arrogant to fill in
a time when I had no supporting evidence. Does this mean I'll be
completely behind EVERYBODY at the start? Not that it matters too much,
I suppose, but it helps to be mentally prepared for any set back.

i usually start right at the back of any length race. i'm a bit
slow but i never end up last. in any race, but especially
a marathon, there'll be plenty of time to make up the 2 or 3
minutes starting at the back will cost you. don't worry about it.
if you've really NEVER run any race, i suggest you take it
easy for most of the way. or you'll be a gonner.
....thehick

In article <[email hidden]>,

jogger said:

[censored], I signed up for a marathon last week, and I left the estimated
time blank. I've never done any races at all, seemed arrogant to fill in
a time when I had no supporting evidence. Does this mean I'll be
completely behind EVERYBODY at the start? Not that it matters too much,
I suppose, but it helps to be mentally prepared for any set back.

Depends on the race. The smaller ones are self-seeded anyway. If you're
doing a big one--or even a lot of the smaller ones--it will be
chip-timed anyway, so you'll know how long it took you from the start
line to the finish line.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

"Harold Buck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:no_one_knows-> You just use their half-marathon time, or 10K, or
whatever, and project

Quoted message said:

it out to a Marathon using one of those race calculators. Then
penalize
them x number of minutes since there's a good chance they won't live
up
to the prediction (with a greater penalty if they submit a 5k time
than
if they submit a 20-mile time).

Interesting. How many people do you think they would need to play this
game with 40,000 thousand or so people. It's hard enough to validate
marathons as they do in Boston much less every little [censored] ant local
10k measured by 47 Chevy with oversized tires with a broken speedometer.
Those that lie and cheat to get up front will lie and cheat on their
qualifying time. The money people get a pass to the front door and the
rest is the an honor policy.

Don't take me wrong but NY is not a race but somewhere between a party
and zoo. You can't take this race that serious regardless of your
enthusiasm. If your looking for as good time lie and cheat your way to
the front or find a more sensible race. Enjoy the crowds along the sides
to keep you inspired but the same crowds of runners will keep stifled
and [censored].

-DougF