Overdoing crosstraining

"Claire Petersky" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What do you think is the best course of action?

A. Continue the intensity of the crosstraining and

continue one's normal

Quoted message said:

pattern of riding. No pain, no gain!

B. Decrease the intensity of the crosstraining and

continue one's normal

Quoted message said:

pattern of riding, until recovered.

Quoted message said:

C. Cease the crosstraining -- take a few recovery days --

but continue one's

Quoted message said:

normal pattern of riding, because that's no personal

strain, that's what you

Quoted message said:

normally do.

D. Cease the crosstraining and the riding too -- that's

what "recovery"

Quoted message said:

means. Be completely slothful, and ease oneself back into

the fray in a day

Quoted message said:

or two.

I'd do B or C depending on how much it hurt / danger of
making things worse.
For example,
If I was just sore, I'd scale back (B).
If I got tennis elbow, I'd definitely cease until healed.

I might do D if biking would make things worse. (again,
tennis elbow is a possible example)

Claire Petersky said:

Suppose one had decided to take up some other activity to do a little cross
training. In other words, one would still be biking every day, but, just to
increase strength in some other muscles, improve cardio fitness, add spice
to life, etc., something else was also taken up -- like running, or
swimming, or lifting weights, or suchlike.

Now, suppose in one's enthusiasm for this other activity, one overdid it a
little. Not to the point of injury, but, since this is cross-training,
muscles that haven't been used all that much are suddenly being used, and
one is a bit sore here and there.

Quoted message said:

What do you think is the best course of action?

A. Continue the intensity of the crosstraining and continue one's normal
pattern of riding. No pain, no gain!

Wrong pain? Gain a wheelchair. (Nothing is simple.)

Treat the new exercise like a new exerciser. Start slow
and don't do it every day until you're used to it. And if
it's an intense exercise rather than an endurance exercise,
don't do it every day in any case.

Keep the perspective that the cross-training isn't your
primary exercise, and you need to strictly avoid letting
it keep you off your bike.

--Blair
"I'm still going to blast my
tri's tomorrow morning."

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Claire Petersky" <[email hidden]> writes:

....

Quoted message said:

What do you think is the best course of action?

....

Quoted message said:

E. Or?

Massage (not too deep), soak in hot water w/ epsom salts,
and some good, sound, deep-relaxing sleep. And wear the
most comfortable footwear you've got and can get away with.

And eat something high in protein; it'll go towards repairing
any tissue damage. Salmon sounds good. Even sardines (lightly
smoked, soaked in olive oil.)

....

Quoted message said:

Would your answer be influenced by the fact that one rather foolishly signed
up for an event happening in a few months based on the notion of at least
some basic competance in the crosstrained activity as an incentive to keep
at it?

Nope. My answer is influenced by my own experience of
being suddenly immersed in an extremely physically
demanding work evironment, and /having/ to be able to
perform tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Claire Petersky said:

Suppose one had decided to take up some other activity to do a little cross
training. In other words, one would still be biking every day, but, just to
increase strength in some other muscles, improve cardio fitness, add spice
to life, etc., something else was also taken up -- like running, or
swimming, or lifting weights, or suchlike.

Now, suppose in one's enthusiasm for this other activity, one overdid it a
little. Not to the point of injury, but, since this is cross-training,
muscles that haven't been used all that much are suddenly being used, and
one is a bit sore here and there.

What do you think is the best course of action?

A. Continue the intensity of the crosstraining and continue one's normal
pattern of riding. No pain, no gain!

B. Decrease the intensity of the crosstraining and continue one's normal
pattern of riding, until recovered. In other words, do the same number of
reps but at a lower weight, or swim half the number of laps as before, or
whatever. That way you remain in the groove, you're continuing the practice
of the new activity, but you aren't pushing it too hard and injuring
anything.

I'd say B works just as well as anything. You get to the pool, you
establish the habit and you take the time to build up the endurance just
like on the bike. Depending on where your event is being done (some odd
Tri-s are done in pools) you learn how to flip turn, or breathe. In fact,
if you're just an adequate swimmer you can improve your swim leg just by
improving your breathing technique (breath on both sides, as opposed to the
classic one-side breath). If the event is in the ocean, then you can
practice the ocean breathing (head up from time to time to see where you
are). Technique is as important in the swim as endurance and swim power.

For weight training, take a long time to ramp up to more weight, and sets.
You can get over the DOMS in a week or two, but just like you do slow build
up of your bike endurance base you can do that same pattern getting in the
groove with the weights. Plus you're establishing the routine of hitting
the weight room, getting to the pool. Consistency is more important than
anything else. IOW, you're hurting yourself by getting all
newyears-resolutiony and bombing the gym and then getting bored and
dropping it. (I know you're not that type, just giving an example).
Consistency and technique - go easy on the weight and sets. Also, in the
gym you can work on core power, swiss ball and soforth, but again, be
gentle, you don't want to make your back sore.

Be sure to taper both prior to the event, but not so much that you have to
get over the DOMS again.

jj

Quoted message said:

C. Cease the crosstraining -- take a few recovery days -- but continue one's
normal pattern of riding, because that's no personal strain, that's what you
normally do.

D. Cease the crosstraining and the riding too -- that's what "recovery"
means. Be completely slothful, and ease oneself back into the fray in a day
or two.

E. Or?

Would your answer be influenced by the fact that one rather foolishly signed
up for an event happening in a few months based on the notion of at least
some basic competance in the crosstrained activity as an incentive to keep
at it?

Claire Petersky wrote:
|| Suppose one had decided to take up some other activity to do a
|| little cross training. In other words, one would still be biking
|| every day, but, just to increase strength in some other muscles,
|| improve cardio fitness, add spice to life, etc., something else was
|| also taken up -- like running, or swimming, or lifting weights, or
|| suchlike.
||
|| Now, suppose in one's enthusiasm for this other activity, one
|| overdid it a little. Not to the point of injury, but, since this is
|| cross-training, muscles that haven't been used all that much are
|| suddenly being used, and one is a bit sore here and there.

What's wrong with being a bit sore here and there? I don't see a problem. I
like being sore. I'm sore now. i'm going to dreadmill in a few and will
hit the weight again tonight.

Practice active recovery. Do a few sets or minutes of that activity as soon
as possible to get those muscles back in the game. A good massage can help
soreness, too.

If you're very, very sore - nearly to the point where you can't function -
scale back. If you're just a bit sore, but not otherwise hurt, just keep at
it. After a while your muscles will adapt.

IMO, cycling should never be one's only activity....it's too lower body
centric, and for some, not even the entire lower body gets a good workout.

||
|| What do you think is the best course of action?
||
|| A. Continue the intensity of the crosstraining and continue one's
|| normal pattern of riding. No pain, no gain!

Yes, unless you can't function. Active recovery and massaging by hubby.

||
|| B. Decrease the intensity of the crosstraining and continue one's
|| normal pattern of riding, until recovered. In other words, do the

Being a bit sore here and there isn't something you really need recovery
from. Are you really more sore than a bit?

|| same number of reps but at a lower weight, or swim half the number
|| of laps as before, or whatever. That way you remain in the groove,
|| you're continuing the practice of the new activity, but you aren't
|| pushing it too hard and injuring anything.

Soreness doesn't necessarily imply injury. What exactly are you referring
to? Muscle soreness or something else? I'm assuming you mean muscle
soreness, but if it's somethign else like joints etc, then you need to back
off asap.

||
|| C. Cease the crosstraining -- take a few recovery days -- but
|| continue one's normal pattern of riding, because that's no personal
|| strain, that's what you normally do.

I'm thinking you fail to describe the situation in a way to get good advice.
You must really be hurting. Cease all activity NOW. 🙂

||
|| D. Cease the crosstraining and the riding too -- that's what
|| "recovery" means. Be completely slothful, and ease oneself back into
|| the fray in a day or two.

See. What did you do, Claire? Come on, give it up!

||
|| E. Or?
||
|| Would your answer be influenced by the fact that one rather
|| foolishly signed up for an event happening in a few months based on
|| the notion of at least some basic competance in the crosstrained
|| activity as an incentive to keep at it?

Sure. More reason to keep at it.

Claire Petersky said:

Suppose one had decided to take up some other activity to do a little cross
training. In other words, one would still be biking every day, but, just to
increase strength in some other muscles, improve cardio fitness, add spice
to life, etc., something else was also taken up -- like running, or
swimming, or lifting weights, or suchlike.

I want to do a sprint triathlon in May, but I got back/hip pain from
running when I first started last summer. I kept up the bicycling and
scaled the running way back--for weeks I walked to the track and ran
once around. I run every other day or sometimes skip two days; I never
run two days in a row. I'm now up to running a mile, but that was after
building up and then having to start again when I hurt my back bending
into odd positions to take photographs (the whole thing seems to be
related to a back problem--SI joint--I had a few years ago). My body
clearly has a very hard time adjusting to running, and my approach is to
build up extremely slowly but on that small scale to run through the
pain. If it had kept getting worse I would have stopped entirely, but
very slowly it got better. Ice after running if it hurts definitely
helps. My very knowledgeable massage therapist hasn't helped much.

Pam

pam_in_sc said:

Claire Petersky said:

Suppose one had decided to take up some other activity to do a

little cross

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

training. In other words, one would still be biking every day, but,

just to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

increase strength in some other muscles, improve cardio fitness,

add spice

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to life, etc., something else was also taken up -- like running, or
swimming, or lifting weights, or suchlike.

I want to do a sprint triathlon in May, but I got back/hip pain from
running when I first started last summer. I kept up the bicycling

and

Quoted message said:

scaled the running way back--for weeks I walked to the track and ran
once around. I run every other day or sometimes skip two days; I

never

Quoted message said:

run two days in a row. I'm now up to running a mile, but that was

after

Quoted message said:

building up and then having to start again when I hurt my back

bending

Quoted message said:

into odd positions to take photographs (the whole thing seems to be
related to a back problem--SI joint--I had a few years ago). My body

Quoted message said:

clearly has a very hard time adjusting to running, and my approach is

to

Quoted message said:

build up extremely slowly but on that small scale to run through the
pain. If it had kept getting worse I would have stopped entirely, but

Quoted message said:

very slowly it got better. Ice after running if it hurts definitely
helps. My very knowledgeable massage therapist hasn't helped much.

Pam

I know folks who love running and there is no doubt that it is great
exersize. But I also know lots of folks who get injured over and over
from running. I'm one of those and found the simple solution. I don't
run anymore. Between cycling and hiking I'm able to maintain cardio
fitness just fine.

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 12:33:25 -0500, pam_in_sc <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Claire Petersky said:

Suppose one had decided to take up some other activity to do a little cross
training. In other words, one would still be biking every day, but, just to
increase strength in some other muscles, improve cardio fitness, add spice
to life, etc., something else was also taken up -- like running, or
swimming, or lifting weights, or suchlike.

I want to do a sprint triathlon in May, but I got back/hip pain from
running when I first started last summer. I kept up the bicycling and
scaled the running way back--for weeks I walked to the track and ran
once around. I run every other day or sometimes skip two days; I never
run two days in a row. I'm now up to running a mile, but that was after
building up and then having to start again when I hurt my back bending
into odd positions to take photographs (the whole thing seems to be
related to a back problem--SI joint--I had a few years ago). My body
clearly has a very hard time adjusting to running, and my approach is to
build up extremely slowly but on that small scale to run through the
pain. If it had kept getting worse I would have stopped entirely, but
very slowly it got better. Ice after running if it hurts definitely
helps. My very knowledgeable massage therapist hasn't helped much.

Pam

If you think of your spine as a radio tower, held straight by guy-wires,
that will help you visualize your back problem.

If the guy-wire is loose on one side of the tower, it's going to lean to
the opposite side.

If you have a pelvic-tilt (the water runs out of the full cup/pelvis girdle
is-a-cup motif)...

If you have a lordosis (mild muscular based)...

....then your guy wires are weak (barring structural abnormality, genetics,
disease, etc.)

Thus to tune up your back you may need stronger abs. (not always. Bulging
disks can cause sciatica. This is for overexertion type injuries, not
falling off your bike or down the stairs stuff.)

Anyway, the abs will straighten the 'cup' of your pelvis (pulling it up in
front). Those that have developed a beer gut typically have tilted pelvis a
little.

If the weak abs let the back muscles pull, then the back muscles get
fatigued from poor posture, this can set off a cascade of hypercompensation
that when you overload even a little with running, or say your shoe is
pronated and this exacerbates the back alignment problem (indirectly). The
upshot is your back is hurting and there seems to be no known reason why.

(might be your shoes. If your foot is mis-aligned, this tilts everything
upstream, in some cases)

You may be overly sensitive to even little weaknesses and have a running
style and body alignment that's off enough that your back muscles are over
working. Thus they hurt quicker than anywhere else.

Imagine how an improper cleat can cause a knee pain in just a couple rides
and a quick fix (moving cleats back) can totally resolve that.

So here we are rubbing the back (which is already inflamed), when what we
really need to do is more gentle situps and ab strengthening (gently).

Just a thought, not a diagnosis, not a doctor, yadda, yadda.

I only know I had a rather 'bad' back 'spasm/injury' and nothing helped it
(heat and ice only made it worse). This was back in 1975 in my mid 20s.
Accidently I started doing some situps...and within a few days my abs were
already improving (kids!) and my back popped back in or something and I was
fine ever since.

HTH,
jj

jj said:

If you think of your spine as a radio tower, held straight by guy-wires,
that will help you visualize your back problem.

If the guy-wire is loose on one side of the tower, it's going to lean to
the opposite side.

If you have a pelvic-tilt (the water runs out of the full cup/pelvis girdle
is-a-cup motif)...

If you have a lordosis (mild muscular based)...

...then your guy wires are weak (barring structural abnormality, genetics,
disease, etc.)...

You are exactly right, only I think the loose guy wire is caused at
least in part by weakness or imbalance from the old back injury. Losing
50 lbs in the last year is also part of the story (and I'm still
carrying an extra 20 lbs or so). I have had custom orthotics for years
(for high arches that started to fall), and consulted about the running
with my orthoticist, who ruled out a leg length difference and said I
did have a problem with pelvic tilt. He suggested two abdominal
exercises--pelvic tilts for the lower abdominals and crunches for the
upper abdominals, and I have been doing those for 4 months or so. That
may indeed been the reason for my improvement, though it is a slow
process (in all respects--I'm up to 22 crunches). I also do a couple of
exercises to strenghten the hip and back muscles. The pain keeps moving
around (anywhere from the point of my hip bone to next to the tailbone)
and I believe that is a good sign that the issue is strengthening
imbalanced muscles.

Running is never going to be my sport, but I love it because it is so
simple and because it is something I've never done before (while I did
serious bicycle touring in college). And I really want to do the sprint
triathlon in honor of my 50th birthday, so I'm willing to invest the
patience in building up the running slowly.

Thanks, Pam

pam_in_sc wrote:
|| Running is never going to be my sport, but I love it because it is so
|| simple and because it is something I've never done before (while I
|| did serious bicycle touring in college). And I really want to do
|| the sprint triathlon in honor of my 50th birthday, so I'm willing to
|| invest the patience in building up the running slowly.

I sometimes thing of trying to run. However, whenever I think of the
problems I used to have with my feet when I was in school and weighing over
300 lbs, I soon quit thinking about it. My foot problems then put a quick
end to most of my exercising activities (well, I never thought to ride a
bike, though!).

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 17:53:19 -0500, pam_in_sc <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

jj said:

If you think of your spine as a radio tower, held straight by guy-wires,
that will help you visualize your back problem.

If the guy-wire is loose on one side of the tower, it's going to lean to
the opposite side.

If you have a pelvic-tilt (the water runs out of the full cup/pelvis girdle
is-a-cup motif)...

If you have a lordosis (mild muscular based)...

...then your guy wires are weak (barring structural abnormality, genetics,
disease, etc.)...

You are exactly right, only I think the loose guy wire is caused at
least in part by weakness or imbalance from the old back injury. Losing
50 lbs in the last year is also part of the story (and I'm still
carrying an extra 20 lbs or so). I have had custom orthotics for years
(for high arches that started to fall), and consulted about the running
with my orthoticist, who ruled out a leg length difference and said I
did have a problem with pelvic tilt. He suggested two abdominal
exercises--pelvic tilts for the lower abdominals and crunches for the
upper abdominals, and I have been doing those for 4 months or so. That
may indeed been the reason for my improvement, though it is a slow
process (in all respects--I'm up to 22 crunches). I also do a couple of
exercises to strenghten the hip and back muscles. The pain keeps moving
around (anywhere from the point of my hip bone to next to the tailbone)
and I believe that is a good sign that the issue is strengthening
imbalanced muscles.

Just remember that a muscle grows stronger not -during- the situps, but on
the rest that night. So don't do your situps, exhaust the stomach muscles
and then go run. (duh) <smile>

If the loose guy wire is in the back, IMO, the sore and injury prone area
would normally be in the front. Sero in on the anti-pelvic tilt stuff
first, would be my guess.

It's hard to tell what caused what when the injury is in the vicious circle
mode...

But I can definitely tell you part of it is your pelvic tilt. We gain the
weight the pelvis tilts, like a tea cup pouring water out. This elongates
and weakens the abdominal uh "tonus" (not tone). That causes the back guy
wires to tighten, shorten, and get additional 'strain' on them. They get
sore, lose adaptability - additional stress (such as jogging) puts them at
the fail point. They spasm...you can't run the next day b/c they're now in
inflammation mode and putting pressure on nerves generating heat, etc. The
tendency is just to ice down. Or use heat. This can irritate them further.
Get going on the ab conditioning before you push too much and cause an
inflammation cycle, iow. ;-)

You're on the right track from my POV. Listen to your body...be gentle.

Once the sitch is healed, then get on a maintence program to strengthen
-both- the back and the abs. For the abs gentle crunches, or swiss ball.
For the back lying on the stomach and gently raising up, just a little like
you're superman. At the end do dands and catstretches. Do this on off days,
but be consistent and gentle. When they get strong the tendency is to drop
them. THat's not good. Keep up a maintence program for front -and- back.
Yadda, yadda, ymmv. <g>

jj

-B

"Claire Petersky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Suppose one had decided to take up some other activity to do a little cross
training. In other words, one would still be biking every day, but, just to
increase strength in some other muscles, improve cardio fitness, add spice
to life, etc., something else was also taken up -- like running, or
swimming, or lifting weights, or suchlike.

Now, suppose in one's enthusiasm for this other activity, one overdid it a
little. Not to the point of injury, but, since this is cross-training,
muscles that haven't been used all that much are suddenly being used, and
one is a bit sore here and there.

What do you think is the best course of action?

A. Continue the intensity of the crosstraining and continue one's normal
pattern of riding. No pain, no gain!

That's pretty close to it. You talk about getting a little sore like it's a bad thing.
Just give your self recovery time, keep working hard, and I think you might be
surprised at how fit you get.

Getting a little sore isn't overdoing your training. Overdoing it is what happens when
you don't give yourself enough recovery time. Or when your training prevents you
from enjoying your activities.