Help, Ketosis breath!!!

Christa said:

Yuck, the last 4 days have been ugly mouth days for me....My husband
says I smell like dead fish. I have been chewing gum continuiously,
brushing my teeth and using a toungue scraper. Also swishing with
mouth wash. Anyone have any suggestions for how to combat this? Does
it go away as you continue on Ketosis? I can kind of mask the flavor
with the gum but hubby still complains that my breath stinks. I don't
want to gross people out.

Christa

Drink more water.

Christa said:

Yuck, the last 4 days have been ugly mouth days for me....My husband
says I smell like dead fish. I have been chewing gum continuiously,
brushing my teeth and using a toungue scraper. Also swishing with
mouth wash. Anyone have any suggestions for how to combat this? Does
it go away as you continue on Ketosis? I can kind of mask the flavor
with the gum but hubby still complains that my breath stinks. I don't
want to gross people out.

Christa

Breath mints are great. I have some sugar free ones that are super
potent. 🙂

Watch it with the gum, I was looking at a package of Extra sugar-free
gum and I saw it has carbs in it. Just an FYI. 😉

-Michelle
re-started Atkins 1/4/05 (quit 3/01 due to pregnancy)
270/265/175

Perdu Conundrum said:

On 8 Jan 2005 10:41:53 -0800, "Christa" <[email hidden]> Cried out
loud... :

Quoted message said:

Yuck, the last 4 days have been ugly mouth days for me....My husband
says I smell like dead fish. I have been chewing gum continuiously,
brushing my teeth and using a toungue scraper. Also swishing with
mouth wash. Anyone have any suggestions for how to combat this? Does
it go away as you continue on Ketosis? I can kind of mask the flavor
with the gum but hubby still complains that my breath stinks. I don't
want to gross people out.

Well.. he can have choices between a sweeter breath or less butt!

Ask him which.

Parsley is a good thing to do. Best natural breath sweetener. Never
checked carbs on it, but it should not be too high for a few sprigs.

After 9 days or so, I'm also dealing with this.

I have found that Jenny's suggestion that this goes away if you decrease
protein consumption works for me. Figure out what is an adequate protein
level for you and then see if what you are actually eating is
significantly over it. If so, adjust protein accordingly.

Martha

--
"ALPO is 99 cents a can. That's over SEVEN dog dollars!!"
Revek - ASDLC

"Martha Gallagher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

|| I have found that Jenny's suggestion that this goes away if you
|| decrease protein consumption works for me. Figure out what is an
|| adequate protein level for you and then see if what you are actually
|| eating is significantly over it. If so, adjust protein accordingly.
||
|| Martha
||

What is your scientific basis for this?
It sounds like internet myth.

You are either in ketosis or you are not (it's like being pregnant).
Reducing protein intake will not take you out of ketosis in and of itself;
so it will have no effect on ketones and their side effects.
--
Peter
270/219/180
website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo

marengo wrote:
|| "Martha Gallagher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
|| news:[email hidden]
||
|||| I have found that Jenny's suggestion that this goes away if you
|||| decrease protein consumption works for me. Figure out what is an
|||| adequate protein level for you and then see if what you are
|||| actually eating is significantly over it. If so, adjust protein
|||| accordingly.
||||
|||| Martha
||||
||
|| What is your scientific basis for this?
|| It sounds like internet myth.
||
|| You are either in ketosis or you are not (it's like being pregnant).
|| Reducing protein intake will not take you out of ketosis in and of
|| itself; so it will have no effect on ketones and their side effects.

Theory is that what is commonly called "ketosis breath" is not due to
ketosis at all, but due to eating too much protein. Hence, being in or out
of ketosis is not the issue (according to the theory).

"marengo" <marengo@ cox.net> wrote in message
news😄c_Dd.22955$sf5.18879@lakeread05...

Quoted message said:

"Martha Gallagher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

|| I have found that Jenny's suggestion that this goes away if you
|| decrease protein consumption works for me. Figure out what is an
|| adequate protein level for you and then see if what you are actually
|| eating is significantly over it. If so, adjust protein accordingly.
||
|| Martha
||

What is your scientific basis for this?
It sounds like internet myth.

It's called experiential information, with which I concur.

HTH

"JC Der Koenig" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]
|| "marengo" <marengo@ cox.net> wrote in message
|| news😄c_Dd.22955$sf5.18879@lakeread05...
||| "Martha Gallagher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
||| news:[email hidden]
|||
||||| I have found that Jenny's suggestion that this goes away if you
||||| decrease protein consumption works for me. Figure out what is an
||||| adequate protein level for you and then see if what you are
||||| actually eating is significantly over it. If so, adjust protein
||||| accordingly.
|||||
||||| Martha
|||||
|||
||| What is your scientific basis for this?
||| It sounds like internet myth.
|||
||
||
|| It's called experiential information, with which I concur.
||
|| HTH

I think we're talking about two different things here. Decreasing protein
intake shoulbn't reduce the "level" of ketosis and moderate its effects,
since ketosis is caused by a shortage of readily available fuel sources in
the first place. It should increase it if anything IMO! However, it's well
known that extreme amounts of protein consumption can cause the blood to
become acidic and caue a buildup of uric acid in the system -- which in
itself can cause any number of problems. Perhaps it's actually the acidity
from too much protein that's causing her bad breath and not ketosis? This
might actually make sense; in this case cutting back on protein would reduce
the systemic acidic buildup.

We all know that it's a common mistake for newbies to confuse low-carb with
high-protein; they're not necessaril the same thing;

--
Peter
270/219/180
website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo

"marengo" <marengo@ cox.net> wrote in message
news:tD0Ed.19204$Wo.5553@lakeread08...

Quoted message said:

"JC Der Koenig" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]
|| "marengo" <marengo@ cox.net> wrote in message
|| news😄c_Dd.22955$sf5.18879@lakeread05...
||| "Martha Gallagher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
||| news:[email hidden]
|||
||||| I have found that Jenny's suggestion that this goes away if you
||||| decrease protein consumption works for me. Figure out what is an
||||| adequate protein level for you and then see if what you are
||||| actually eating is significantly over it. If so, adjust protein
||||| accordingly.
|||||
||||| Martha
|||||
|||
||| What is your scientific basis for this?
||| It sounds like internet myth.
|||
||
||
|| It's called experiential information, with which I concur.
||
|| HTH

I think we're talking about two different things here. Decreasing protein
intake shoulbn't reduce the "level" of ketosis and moderate its effects,
since ketosis is caused by a shortage of readily available fuel sources in
the first place. It should increase it if anything IMO! However, it's

well

Quoted message said:

known that extreme amounts of protein consumption can cause the blood to
become acidic and caue a buildup of uric acid in the system -- which in
itself can cause any number of problems. Perhaps it's actually the

acidity

Quoted message said:

from too much protein that's causing her bad breath and not ketosis? This
might actually make sense; in this case cutting back on protein would

reduce

Quoted message said:

the systemic acidic buildup.

We all know that it's a common mistake for newbies to confuse low-carb

with

Quoted message said:

high-protein; they're not necessaril the same thing;

Just a guess, but I think many new people try to do lo-carb while
keeping the fat reduced as well. There would then be too many calories
coming from protein. It is difficult to get out of that frame of mind when
we've been told for so long that eating fat is bad for you. Usually it's
hard to tell if they are doing this unless they specifically say so.
Tom
210/180/180

Quoted message said:

--
Peter
270/219/180
website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo

"Tom G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:r61Ed.23908$Xk.18108@pd7tw3no
|| "marengo" <marengo@ cox.net> wrote in message
|| news:tD0Ed.19204$Wo.5553@lakeread08...
||| "JC Der Koenig" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
||| news:[email hidden]
||||| "marengo" <marengo@ cox.net> wrote in message
||||| news😄c_Dd.22955$sf5.18879@lakeread05...
|||||| "Martha Gallagher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
|||||| news:[email hidden]
||||||
|||||||| I have found that Jenny's suggestion that this goes away if you
|||||||| decrease protein consumption works for me. Figure out what is
|||||||| an adequate protein level for you and then see if what you are
|||||||| actually eating is significantly over it. If so, adjust protein
|||||||| accordingly.
||||||||
|||||||| Martha
||||||||
||||||
|||||| What is your scientific basis for this?
|||||| It sounds like internet myth.
||||||
|||||
|||||
||||| It's called experiential information, with which I concur.
|||||
||||| HTH
|||
||| I think we're talking about two different things here. Decreasing
||| protein intake shoulbn't reduce the "level" of ketosis and moderate
||| its effects, since ketosis is caused by a shortage of readily
||| available fuel sources in the first place. It should increase it
||| if anything IMO! However, it's well known that extreme amounts of
||| protein consumption can cause the blood to become acidic and caue a
||| buildup of uric acid in the system -- which in itself can cause any
||| number of problems. Perhaps it's actually the acidity from too
||| much protein that's causing her bad breath and not ketosis? This
||| might actually make sense; in this case cutting back on protein
||| would reduce the systemic acidic buildup.
|||
||| We all know that it's a common mistake for newbies to confuse
||| low-carb with high-protein; they're not necessaril the same thing;
||
|| Just a guess, but I think many new people try to do lo-carb while
|| keeping the fat reduced as well. There would then be too many
|| calories coming from protein. It is difficult to get out of that
|| frame of mind when we've been told for so long that eating fat is
|| bad for you. Usually it's hard to tell if they are doing this unless
|| they specifically say so. Tom
|| 210/180/180
||
|||
||| --
||| Peter
||| 270/219/180
||| website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo

True.

--
Peter
270/219/180
website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo

"marengo" <marengo@ cox.net> wrote in message
news:tD0Ed.19204$Wo.5553@lakeread08...

Quoted message said:

"JC Der Koenig" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]
|| "marengo" <marengo@ cox.net> wrote in message
|| news😄c_Dd.22955$sf5.18879@lakeread05...
||| "Martha Gallagher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
||| news:[email hidden]
|||
||||| I have found that Jenny's suggestion that this goes away if you
||||| decrease protein consumption works for me. Figure out what is an
||||| adequate protein level for you and then see if what you are
||||| actually eating is significantly over it. If so, adjust protein
||||| accordingly.
|||||
||||| Martha
|||||
|||
||| What is your scientific basis for this?
||| It sounds like internet myth.
|||
||
||
|| It's called experiential information, with which I concur.
||
|| HTH

I think we're talking about two different things here. Decreasing protein
intake shoulbn't reduce the "level" of ketosis and moderate its effects,
since ketosis is caused by a shortage of readily available fuel sources in
the first place. It should increase it if anything IMO! However, it's
well
known that extreme amounts of protein consumption can cause the blood to
become acidic and caue a buildup of uric acid in the system -- which in
itself can cause any number of problems. Perhaps it's actually the
acidity
from too much protein that's causing her bad breath and not ketosis? This
might actually make sense; in this case cutting back on protein would
reduce
the systemic acidic buildup.

We all know that it's a common mistake for newbies to confuse low-carb
with
high-protein; they're not necessaril the same thing;

Nice backpedaling.

In any case, increasing fat and decreasing protein should help alleviate
keto-breath.

Sugarfree gum helps me a long way especially at work.
Each stick has 2 g carb. I use 1/2 each time twice a day.

J.

"Christa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yuck, the last 4 days have been ugly mouth days for me....My husband
says I smell like dead fish. I have been chewing gum continuiously,
brushing my teeth and using a toungue scraper. Also swishing with
mouth wash. Anyone have any suggestions for how to combat this? Does
it go away as you continue on Ketosis? I can kind of mask the flavor
with the gum but hubby still complains that my breath stinks. I don't
want to gross people out.

Christa

Quoted message said:

We all know that it's a common mistake for newbies to confuse low-carb with
high protein; they're not necessaril the same thing;

marengo, as a newbie, i would be greatly assisted by a little more detali on
this. can you point me in the right direction?

Dominic Lloyd said:

Quoted message said:

We all know that it's a common mistake for newbies to confuse low-carb with
high protein; they're not necessaril the same thing;

marengo, as a newbie, i would be greatly assisted by a little more detali on
this. can you point me in the right direction?

Once you eliminate the refined grains and starches you lose the blood
sugar swings - up high after a carb-heavy meal, then dipping low about
2 hours later, so you refeed (candy bar, coffee with lots of sugar,
sandwich) and up you go again - and many people find themselves
becoming far less hungry than before. It becomes automatic to eat
smaller overall meals and/or eat less often during the day. Many
people believe this, rather than any 'metabolic advantage' is why most
people who try low carb find it an easier diet than a low fat diet to
maintain.

In this fashion, many low-carbers find that they are eating no more
protein in a day than people who don't low-carb. As an example - 2
people walk into your standard fast-food place for a quick lunch. One
buys a 'meal deal' - burger, fries and soft drink, the other buys the
same burger, diet soda and ditches the bun. Neither one has eaten
more *protein*, but I'll almost guarantee the one who didn't eat fries
or bun will be less hungry later. If the second person also gets a
side-salad they'll be even better off with added fibre in the
vegetables in their salad, assuming they avoid sugary dressings.

Aramanth

Aramanth Dawe wrote:
|| On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 07:24:30 GMT, "Dominic Lloyd"
|| <[email hidden]> wrote:
||
|||| We all know that it's a common mistake for newbies to confuse
|||| low-carb with high protein; they're not necessaril the same thing;
|||
||| marengo, as a newbie, i would be greatly assisted by a little more
||| detali on this. can you point me in the right direction?
||
|| Once you eliminate the refined grains and starches you lose the blood
|| sugar swings - up high after a carb-heavy meal, then dipping low
|| about 2 hours later, so you refeed (candy bar, coffee with lots of
|| sugar, sandwich) and up you go again - and many people find
|| themselves
|| becoming far less hungry than before. It becomes automatic to eat
|| smaller overall meals and/or eat less often during the day. Many
|| people believe this, rather than any 'metabolic advantage' is why
|| most people who try low carb find it an easier diet than a low fat
|| diet to maintain.
||
|| In this fashion, many low-carbers find that they are eating no more
|| protein in a day than people who don't low-carb. As an example - 2
|| people walk into your standard fast-food place for a quick lunch.
|| One
|| buys a 'meal deal' - burger, fries and soft drink, the other buys the
|| same burger, diet soda and ditches the bun. Neither one has eaten
|| more *protein*, but I'll almost guarantee the one who didn't eat
|| fries
|| or bun will be less hungry later. If the second person also gets a
|| side-salad they'll be even better off with added fibre in the
|| vegetables in their salad, assuming they avoid sugary dressings.
||

And the second person will consume fewer calories, too.

"Aramanth Dawe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]
|| On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 07:24:30 GMT, "Dominic Lloyd"
|| <[email hidden]> wrote:
||
|||| We all know that it's a common mistake for newbies to confuse
|||| low-carb with high protein; they're not necessaril the same thing;
|||
||| marengo, as a newbie, i would be greatly assisted by a little more
||| detali on this. can you point me in the right direction?
||
|| Once you eliminate the refined grains and starches you lose the blood
|| sugar swings - up high after a carb-heavy meal, then dipping low
|| about 2 hours later, so you refeed (candy bar, coffee with lots of
|| sugar, sandwich) and up you go again - and many people find
|| themselves becoming far less hungry than before. It becomes
|| automatic to eat smaller overall meals and/or eat less often during
|| the day. Many people believe this, rather than any 'metabolic
|| advantage' is why most people who try low carb find it an easier
|| diet than a low fat diet to maintain.
||
|| In this fashion, many low-carbers find that they are eating no more
|| protein in a day than people who don't low-carb. As an example - 2
|| people walk into your standard fast-food place for a quick lunch.
|| One buys a 'meal deal' - burger, fries and soft drink, the other
|| buys the same burger, diet soda and ditches the bun. Neither one
|| has eaten more *protein*, but I'll almost guarantee the one who
|| didn't eat fries or bun will be less hungry later. If the second
|| person also gets a side-salad they'll be even better off with added
|| fibre in the vegetables in their salad, assuming they avoid sugary
|| dressings.
||
|| Aramanth

Exactly. Also, I've found in the past few years that I eat a higher
percentage of fat in my meals. Not because I've increased eating fat, but
because of the reduced carbohydrates. And due to the dynamic that you
described, I find that I lose weight the fastest -- and/or enjoy optimum
health benefits -- when I maintain the ratio of fat/protein/carbs that I
have found through experience that works best for me. And for me that ratio
is about:
75% fat
20% protein
5% carbohydrates
(YMMV)
Thisis percentage of total calories consumed of course, not portion
percentages. (I realize this can be confusing also, -- since fat has more
calories per gram (9) than protein (4) or carbs (4), it take less fat to
make up more calories).

The reason this ratio works for me is twofold:
#1. I'm T2 diabetic, and it eliminates the blood sugar swings (exactly
as you describe) an allows me to control my diabetes with diet alone
#2. For the same reason (no blood sugar/insulin swings), I don't get
hungry.

I agree with you Aramanth, that it's the lack of hunger that is more likely
causing the weight loss than a "metabolic advantage." But I'm not a
scientist, and all I know for sure is ... it works!
--
Peter
270/219/180
website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo

"Aramanth Dawe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]
|| On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 07:24:30 GMT, "Dominic Lloyd"
|| <[email hidden]> wrote:
||
|||| We all know that it's a common mistake for newbies to confuse
|||| low-carb with high protein; they're not necessaril the same thing;
|||
||| marengo, as a newbie, i would be greatly assisted by a little more
||| detali on this. can you point me in the right direction?
||
|| Once you eliminate the refined grains and starches you lose the blood
|| sugar swings - up high after a carb-heavy meal, then dipping low
|| about 2 hours later, so you refeed (candy bar, coffee with lots of
|| sugar, sandwich) and up you go again - and many people find
|| themselves becoming far less hungry than before. It becomes
|| automatic to eat smaller overall meals and/or eat less often during
|| the day. Many people believe this, rather than any 'metabolic
|| advantage' is why most people who try low carb find it an easier
|| diet than a low fat diet to maintain.
||
|| In this fashion, many low-carbers find that they are eating no more
|| protein in a day than people who don't low-carb. As an example - 2
|| people walk into your standard fast-food place for a quick lunch.
|| One buys a 'meal deal' - burger, fries and soft drink, the other
|| buys the same burger, diet soda and ditches the bun. Neither one
|| has eaten more *protein*, but I'll almost guarantee the one who
|| didn't eat fries or bun will be less hungry later. If the second
|| person also gets a side-salad they'll be even better off with added
|| fibre in the vegetables in their salad, assuming they avoid sugary
|| dressings.
||
|| Aramanth

Exactly. Also, I've found in the past few years that I eat a higher
percentage of fat in my meals. Not because I've increased eating fat, but
because of the reduced carbohydrates. And due to the dynamic that you
described, I find that I lose weight the fastest -- and/or enjoy optimum
health benefits -- when I maintain the ratio of fat/protein/carbs that I
have found through experience that works best for me. And for me that ratio
is about:
75% fat
20% protein
5% carbohydrates
(YMMV)
Thisis percentage of total calories consumed of course, not portion
percentages. (I realize this can be confusing also, -- since fat has more
calories per gram (9) than protein (4) or carbs (4), it take less fat to
make up more calories).

The reason this ratio works for me is twofold:
#1. I'm T2 diabetic, and it eliminates the blood sugar swings (exactly
as you describe) an allows me to control my diabetes with diet alone
#2. For the same reason (no blood sugar/insulin swings), I don't get
hungry.

I agree with you Aramanth, that it's the lack of hunger that is more likely
causing the weight loss than a "metabolic advantage." But I'm not a
scientist, and all I know for sure is ... it works!
--
Peter
270/219/180
website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 10:39:32 -0500, "marengo" <marengo@ cox.net>

Quoted message said:

I agree with you Aramanth, that it's the lack of hunger that is more likely
causing the weight loss than a "metabolic advantage." But I'm not a
scientist, and all I know for sure is ... it works!

Actually, Peter, for me I KNOW it's not lack of hunger that's the
cause.

I *gained* weight on my high-carb, low protein and fat misery that was
the 'kidney sparing diet' my doc put me on when I first developed
kidney issues. That was around 1000 cals daily. I was ravenous all
the time but eventually got to the point I could ignore this - which
has thoroughly screwed me over but at the time it looked like a good
idea.

When I first changed to LC, I was eating around 2500 cals and was
losing - slowly, but losing. After I hit The Big Stall, one of my
attempted stallbreakers was literally drinking oil, around 4000 cals
of oil daily on top of my food intake. I still didn't gain any
weight!

In this way I determined that FOR ME it was the composition of my
eating plan rather than simple calories in - calories out that was the
main issue. For other people, the mechanism may be different - but as
you say, it WORKS.

Aramanth

Aramanth Dawe wrote:
||
|| When I first changed to LC, I was eating around 2500 cals and was
|| losing - slowly, but losing. After I hit The Big Stall, one of my
|| attempted stallbreakers was literally drinking oil, around 4000 cals
|| of oil daily on top of my food intake. I still didn't gain any
|| weight!

Oh my...4000 cal of oil on top of food? where did such a notion arise?

Roger Zoul said:

Aramanth Dawe wrote:
||
|| When I first changed to LC, I was eating around 2500 cals and was
|| losing - slowly, but losing. After I hit The Big Stall, one of my
|| attempted stallbreakers was literally drinking oil, around 4000 cals
|| of oil daily on top of my food intake. I still didn't gain any
|| weight!

Oh my...4000 cal of oil on top of food? where did such a notion arise?

There are those who hold the theory that when one has carried a LOT of
weight for a LONG time (and my weight gain was started out 30+ years
ago when I was put on steroids at age 10 for severe untractable
eczema) it has become so much of the 'background' it doesn't get
'seen' as fat for burning. Therefore one needs to 'prime the furnace'
with additional readily burned fats (such as cold-pressed vegetable
oils) to get things happening again. I originally heard about it
through a post here in 2000 (you can read the post at
http://tinyurl.com/68o3x if you're interested in it). It was from a
book called Calories Don't Count by Dr Haller, from 1941.

Several of us tried it - drinking shots of pure oil (I used
cold-pressed macadamia oil because it tastes good, the book the OP was
working from suggested safflower oil, I've seen others suggest olive
oil) after every meal. I found it was great as an appetite
suppressant - I didn't feel ill, just wasn't even remotely hungry. I
went really deeply into ketosis. However, after a month I didn't see
any further weight loss and I discontinued the experiment. I was
having trouble forcing myself to eat much at all because of lack of
hunger and that wasn't a good thing.

Aramanth