How cool would it be...

Boyd Speerschneider said:

... to have an outsider like Iban Mayo, Vladimir Karpets, or Alexandre
Vinokourov win the TDF this year?

Have them just take the bull by the horns and take care of business (2
cliches in one sentence.. hehe).

I'd personally love to see it.

Not that I don't respect Armstrong... I do immensely, but I would just like
to see some of the younger guys stepping up to give the old farts of the
peloton a good 'ole fashioned ass-whoopin' 🙂

- Boyd 'not a LA hater, would just like to see a changing of the guard' S.

I want to see Jan get one more, while Lance is there, before he
retires. Then Vino gets next years win with Discovery.
Bill C

Bill C said:

Boyd Speerschneider said:

... to have an outsider like Iban Mayo, Vladimir Karpets, or Alexandre
Vinokourov win the TDF this year?

Have them just take the bull by the horns and take care of business (2
cliches in one sentence.. hehe).

I'd personally love to see it.

Not that I don't respect Armstrong... I do immensely, but I would just like
to see some of the younger guys stepping up to give the old farts of the
peloton a good 'ole fashioned ass-whoopin' 🙂

- Boyd 'not a LA hater, would just like to see a changing of the guard' S.

I want to see Jan get one more, while Lance is there, before he
retires. Then Vino gets next years win with Discovery.
Bill C

I'd be pulling for Basso but an outside pure climber would be nice.
'98 was the greatest to me. Watching someone break early and climb out
of the saddle for k's on end. Of course Lance does that some too but
nobody is thinking "is he going to lose his lead on the next TT".

D

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Boyd Speerschneider said:

... to have an outsider like Iban Mayo, Vladimir Karpets, or Alexandre
Vinokourov win the TDF this year?

Have them just take the bull by the horns and take care of business (2
cliches in one sentence.. hehe).

I'd personally love to see it.

Not that I don't respect Armstrong... I do immensely, but I would just
like to see some of the younger guys stepping up to give the old farts
of the peloton a good 'ole fashioned ass-whoopin' 🙂

- Boyd 'not a LA hater, would just like to see a changing of the guard'
S.

I want to see Jan get one more, while Lance is there, before he
retires. Then Vino gets next years win with Discovery.
Bill C

Normally I'll root for Americans, being the jingoistic pig that I am 😉

But, if worse comes to worse, I'll root for the some of the Aussie guys
too... like Cooke, McGee, Rogers, and Evans. But, I'll be damned if I root
for McWhiner (aka. Man-Of-1000-Excuses). I hope Petacchi smokes him every
time. Not that its *bad* to get beat... just be classy when you are.

As for Jan, I think he'll end up riding / laughing all the way to the to
the bank

But seriously, he won't have nearly the media scrutiny or exposure as LA,
but will live a *very* comfortably life if he plays his cards right and
doesn't blow his nest egg ala Mike Tyson.

Cheers (tipping a beer),

- Boyd "can't wait 'til July" S.

Boyd Speerschneider said:

Normally I'll root for Americans, being the jingoistic pig that I am 😉

But, if worse comes to worse, I'll root for the some of the Aussie guys
too... like Cooke, McGee, Rogers, and Evans. But, I'll be damned if I root
for McWhiner (aka. Man-Of-1000-Excuses). I hope Petacchi smokes him every
time.

Not this year...peta isn't doing the tour...I think. It will be a
Boonen/McEwen battle.

Quoted message said:

... to have an outsider like Iban Mayo, Vladimir Karpets, or Alexandre
Vinokourov win the TDF this year?

Quoted message said:

Not that I don't respect Armstrong... I do immensely, but I would just
like
to see some of the younger guys stepping up to give the old farts of the
peloton a good 'ole fashioned ass-whoopin' 🙂

Vino is hardly an "outsider", nor is he all that young. He is quite talented
though, and has been steadily moving up over the years... if he hadn't been
injured, who knows?

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"Boyd Speerschneider" <bspeerscREMOVE_ME@ME_TOOyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

... to have an outsider like Iban Mayo, Vladimir Karpets, or Alexandre
Vinokourov win the TDF this year?

Have them just take the bull by the horns and take care of business (2
cliches in one sentence.. hehe).

I'd personally love to see it.

Not that I don't respect Armstrong... I do immensely, but I would just
like
to see some of the younger guys stepping up to give the old farts of the
peloton a good 'ole fashioned ass-whoopin' 🙂

- Boyd 'not a LA hater, would just like to see a changing of the guard' S.

Lance will win it. If he fails then expect to see him next year, he wants
to "retire" on his own terms.
"Boyd Speerschneider" <bspeerscREMOVE_ME@ME_TOOyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

... to have an outsider like Iban Mayo, Vladimir Karpets, or Alexandre
Vinokourov win the TDF this year?

Have them just take the bull by the horns and take care of business (2
cliches in one sentence.. hehe).

I'd personally love to see it.

Not that I don't respect Armstrong... I do immensely, but I would just

like

Quoted message said:

to see some of the younger guys stepping up to give the old farts of the
peloton a good 'ole fashioned ass-whoopin' 🙂

- Boyd 'not a LA hater, would just like to see a changing of the guard' S.

gym.gravity said:

Boyd Speerschneider said:

Normally I'll root for Americans, being the jingoistic pig that I am 😉

But, if worse comes to worse, I'll root for the some of the Aussie guys
too... like Cooke, McGee, Rogers, and Evans. But, I'll be damned if I root
for McWhiner (aka. Man-Of-1000-Excuses). I hope Petacchi smokes him every
time.

Not this year...peta isn't doing the tour...I think. It will be a
Boonen/McEwen battle.

Petacchi will, indeed, be missing. Sprint finishes will be fought out
by guys like Kirsipuu (CA), Hushovd (CA), Quaranta (DV), Cooke (FDJ),
Pagliarini (Liquigas), Boonen (QS), and McEwen (Lotto). Claudio Corioni
(Fassa) could conceivably produce a major surprise, provided he is
selected for the Tour.

If it comes down to a smaller group sprint, bet on O'Grady (Cofidis),
McGee (FDJ), Cunego (Lampre), Valverde (IB), Bettini (QS) and Garzelli
(Liquigas) - although that kind of sprint is fairly rare in the Tour.

-Sonarrat.

"William Davidson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Lance will win it. If he fails then expect to see him next year, he wants
to "retire" on his own terms.

Is the above your opinion or fact?

Frank Drackman said:

"William Davidson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Lance will win it. If he fails then expect to see him next year, he wants
to "retire" on his own terms.

Is the above your opinion or fact?

The only facts are numbers. Everything else is opinion.

sonarrat said:

If it comes down to a smaller group sprint, bet on O'Grady (Cofidis),
McGee (FDJ), Cunego (Lampre), Valverde (IB), Bettini (QS) and Garzelli
(Liquigas) - although that kind of sprint is fairly rare in the Tour.

stage 9, stage 11, stage 12, stage 16...

http://www.letour.fr/2005/presentationus/profil_16.html

oops. take stage 12 out. that will be a 2 up sprint between horner and
boogerd.

sonarrat said:

Quoted message said:

The only facts are numbers.

I did not know that.

sonarrat said:

Frank Drackman said:

"William Davidson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Lance will win it. If he fails then expect to see him next year, he wants
to "retire" on his own terms.

Is the above your opinion or fact?

The only facts are numbers. Everything else is opinion.

Dumbass -

A bit simplistic. Abraham Lincoln is dead. Fact, but no numbers.

You are a dumbass. Also a fact, no numbers.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.
also a dumbass

Kurgan Gringioni said:

sonarrat said:

Frank Drackman said:

"William Davidson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

>Lance will win it. If he fails then expect to see him next year, he wants
>to "retire" on his own terms.

Is the above your opinion or fact?

The only facts are numbers. Everything else is opinion.

Dumbass -

A bit simplistic. Abraham Lincoln is dead. Fact, but no numbers.

Which Abraham Lincoln? And when did he die?

Quoted message said:

You are a dumbass. Also a fact, no numbers.

An opinion, albeit an astute one.

Quoted message said:

thanks,

K. Gringioni.
also a dumbass

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Boyd Speerschneider said:

... to have an outsider like Iban Mayo, Vladimir Karpets, or Alexandre
Vinokourov win the TDF this year?

Have them just take the bull by the horns and take care of business (2
cliches in one sentence.. hehe).

I'd personally love to see it.

Not that I don't respect Armstrong... I do immensely, but I would just
like
to see some of the younger guys stepping up to give the old farts of the
peloton a good 'ole fashioned ass-whoopin' 🙂

- Boyd 'not a LA hater, would just like to see a changing of the guard'
S.

I want to see Jan get one more, while Lance is there, before he
retires. Then Vino gets next years win with Discovery.

Jan doesn't deserve to win. I can understand that after Arsmtrong's first
two wins, he tried to emulate him, following the same training program,
concentrating only on the tour, etc. But after he failed a couple of times,
it obviously hasn't come to his mind, that perhaps he should prepare in a
quite different way. For instance, "peaking" works for Armstrong, but that
doesn't mean that it works for everybody. It didn't work for Merckx. He
tried in 1971 and almost lost the Tour. In his opinion the main reason for
his near loss was that he hadn't rode the Giro. So in 1972 he did what he
had always done - peaking only once a year, that is from march to november -
and his crushed the competition. Ullrich is as strong as Merckx (although of
course lacking his ambition), so why doesn't he try the same formula? It's
no use trying the prepare the same way as Armstrong, for the simple reason
that Amstrong is much better in it. Which means that Ullrich can only hope
that Armstrong will have a few bad days (as in 2003) or is growing too old
(which IMO he isn't).

Benjo

"benjo maso" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Jan doesn't deserve to win.

One has to wonder how history will the current era of cycling. What esteem
will Armstrong's accomplishment be held in? Will his dominace be seen as
testament to his greatness, or as a product of the mediocrity of his
competitors? Merckx had to beat Zoetemelk and Thevenet, both eventual winners
of the TdF (and also the Vuelta for Joop). Hinault had Lemond and Fignon to
contend with, neither a stranger to the top step of the Tour Podium. So who
has Armstrong beaten? As much as I like Ullrich, his `97 victory has always
seemed something of a fluke. Beyond that, has he ever shown the talent of a
Zoetemelk or Lemond? Pantani had the potential of greatness, but by the time
he faced Armstrong in 2000, he was but a shadow of the rider he was in `98.

Don't get me wrong. I believe there are a good number of very good riders out
there. Indeed, one of the interesting things seems to be the overall quality
of the riders these days. But I can't help but think there is no really great
talent out there.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

sonarrat said:

Frank Drackman said:

"William Davidson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

>Lance will win it. If he fails then expect to see him next year, he wants
>to "retire" on his own terms.

Is the above your opinion or fact?

The only facts are numbers. Everything else is opinion.

Dumbass -

A bit simplistic. Abraham Lincoln is dead. Fact, but no numbers.

You are a dumbass. Also a fact, no numbers.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.
also a dumbass

LMAO

D

as in dumbass

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tim Mullin said:

"benjo maso" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Jan doesn't deserve to win.

One has to wonder how history will the current era of cycling. What esteem
will Armstrong's accomplishment be held in? Will his dominace be seen as
testament to his greatness, or as a product of the mediocrity of his
competitors? Merckx had to beat Zoetemelk and Thevenet, both eventual winners
of the TdF (and also the Vuelta for Joop). Hinault had Lemond and Fignon to
contend with, neither a stranger to the top step of the Tour Podium. So who
has Armstrong beaten? As much as I like Ullrich, his `97 victory has always
seemed something of a fluke. Beyond that, has he ever shown the talent of a
Zoetemelk or Lemond? Pantani had the potential of greatness, but by the time
he faced Armstrong in 2000, he was but a shadow of the rider he was in `98.

Don't get me wrong. I believe there are a good number of very good riders out
there. Indeed, one of the interesting things seems to be the overall quality
of the riders these days. But I can't help but think there is no really great
talent out there.

I think that Armstrong's dominance will be seen by cycling afficionados
as a product of his singleminded focus on the Tour, but by the general
public as a sign of his superiority. I agree with what you said, but I was
curious what it was about '97 that makes Ullrich's win seen flukey to you.
Jan seemed plenty strong the year before, so his ability wasn't a huge
surprise. Riis seemed like he should have been strong enough to win again,
but for whatever reason, he just didn't have the same legs. But there were
a few other riders that year who stood a chance (albeit some only had an
outside chance): Dufaux, Jaskula, Zulle, Leblanc, Berzin (yeah, he was on
the downhill side of things), Olano and Escartin. By the way, some good (or
amusing) assessments of the riders here:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/tour97/tdfteams97.html

As for great riders, I think that Valverde has shown the potential to be
a great. Whether he can maintain his versatility and step up to winning a
GT or not is a question. (Of course, that presumes that winning a GT is the
definitition of "great".) I admit he's been pretty quiet this year.

--
tanx,
Howard

Butter is love.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Merckx also had to contend and dominate Ocana, Gimondi, and Poulidor,
and Guimard, and Van Impe, Jan Janssens, Pingeon, Jose Manuel Fuente,
Agostinho, and Martinez.

Andre

Howard Kveck <[email hidden]> wrote in news:YOURhoward-
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I was curious what it was about '97 that makes Ullrich's win seen
flukey to you.

I don't doubt he has the physical ability. What seems to be lacking is the
mental toughness (will, drive, focus, or whatever you want to call it) that
so many of the greats have had. Even Armstrong--though I feel he's over
rated--has never had to have a team mate follow, admonishing him to, "suffer,
you sow."