Can marijuana help paraplegics recover?

bhanwara said:

I happened to meet a person who became a paraplegic 13 years
ago in a diving accident. But he had recovered enough to be
able to walk by himself now, though he still needs crutches
most of the time.

He had used marijuana to keep himself happy despite his
accident. But I wondered if there was a causal
connection.

How do you know that he might not have needed any crutches
by now, had he not smoked anything at all?

(bhanwara) said:

I happened to meet a person who became a paraplegic 13 years
ago in a diving accident. But he had recovered enough to be
able to walk by himself now, though he still needs crutches
most of the time.

He had used marijuana to keep himself happy despite his
accident. But I wondered if there was a causal
connection.
concatenated
Nerual connections will grow when stimulated. A drug
like marijuana will modify neural activity, and
maybe it is possible that it could provide stimulation,
helping the lost connections grow.

Could therapy provided while the patient was "under the
influence" lead to recovery? (I don't mean marinol
type stuff, but something that provided actual
drug-impact causing "high"s, i.e. changed neural behavior.)

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On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 01:47:02 GMT, Mark Thorson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

bhanwara said:

I happened to meet a person who became a paraplegic 13 years
ago in a diving accident. But he had recovered enough to be
able to walk by himself now, though he still needs crutches
most of the time.

He had used marijuana to keep himself happy despite his
accident. But I wondered if there was a causal
connection.

How do you know that he might not have needed any crutches
by now, had he not smoked anything at all?

As much as I'd love to think the cannabis had a beneficial
impact on his condition, it's just as likely that it didn't. Because
of the totalitarian attitude of the US government in restricting
cannabis to schedule 1 (high abuse potential and no redeeming medical
value), very few meaningful studies have been done on just what
conditions are beneficially effected by cannabis.
We in the medpot community are aware of many cases in which
cannabis has helped produce a positive outcome for patients with
certain neurological problems. However, the documentation is only
slowly emerging and most of it is from countries other than the US who
have softened their stance toward cannabis and allow research with
this drug.
Until research is allowed to progress and professional medical
facillities conduct studies of the drug's anecdotal effects on
different medical conditions we'll have no real progress at all. It
needs to be done, done soon, and in carefully crafted clinical trials
with public disclosure of the results.
BudBurner

http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread13551.shtml
BL

"As the waves pass the rock, their shape is changed. There is a hologram of
the rock within the wave that comes forward and crashes on the beach, then
there's a reflected wave back." Ralph Abraham

"I'd like to learn to windsurf." BL

Quoted message said:

http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread13551.shtml
BL

Groooovy!

"Bud Burner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 01:47:02 GMT, Mark Thorson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

bhanwara said:

I happened to meet a person who became a paraplegic 13 years
ago in a diving accident. But he had recovered enough to be
able to walk by himself now, though he still needs crutches
most of the time.

He had used marijuana to keep himself happy despite his
accident. But I wondered if there was a causal
connection.

How do you know that he might not have needed any crutches
by now, had he not smoked anything at all?

As much as I'd love to think the cannabis had a beneficial
impact on his condition, it's just as likely that it didn't. Because
of the totalitarian attitude of the US government in restricting
cannabis to schedule 1 (high abuse potential and no redeeming medical
value), very few meaningful studies have been done on just what
conditions are beneficially effected by cannabis.
We in the medpot community are aware of many cases in which
cannabis has helped produce a positive outcome for patients with
certain neurological problems. However, the documentation is only
slowly emerging and most of it is from countries other than the US who
have softened their stance toward cannabis and allow research with
this drug.
Until research is allowed to progress and professional medical
facillities conduct studies of the drug's anecdotal effects on
different medical conditions we'll have no real progress at all. It
needs to be done, done soon, and in carefully crafted clinical trials
with public disclosure of the results.
BudBurner

It may be a long time for this country to seriously take notice of the
positive effects of cannabis, big money from drug conglomerates and law
enforcement still effectively lobby our polititians to keep it illegal. Even
worse, I have to wait until I return to Canada for the abilty to buy a bag
of sensemilla for $7 USD a gram!! (usually runs about $20 a gram here in the
Apple) but imagine where those markups are going- to the dirty officers &
judges or the other guys importing cocaine & heroin along with that...
Middle USA doesn't understand the situation because they are watching FOX
News praising B.U.S.H., eating mayonnaise sandwitches, etc.
Stretch

"bhanwara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I happened to meet a person who became a paraplegic 13 years
ago in a diving accident. But he had recovered enough to be
able to walk by himself now, though he still needs crutches
most of the time.

He had used marijuana to keep himself happy despite his
accident. But I wondered if there was a causal
connection.

Nerual connections will grow when stimulated. A drug
like marijuana will modify neural activity, and
maybe it is possible that it could provide stimulation,
helping the lost connections grow.

Could therapy provided while the patient was "under the
influence" lead to recovery? (I don't mean marinol
type stuff, but something that provided actual
drug-impact causing "high"s, i.e. changed neural behavior.)

No over time though the brain and body can learn to form new neural
pathways to recover many if not all of lost motor skills.

There is a school/ hospital somewhere in Europe (I forgot exactly where, it
was a long time since I have seen the Nova or NG show about it) where they
rehabilitate quadriplegics in a new and intense manner.
the story focused on 2 youths ( 19 yrs old) who were diving off rocks in a
quarry and both hit their heads and broke their fool necks on the same rock.
Both became Quadriplegics.
They were treated for years at that facility and in the end both were able
to get around and feed themselves.
The cost is not cheap though.

I guess sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't.

Has nothing to do with grass.
He might have even recovered more with out it although I am sure it helped
his spirit while he was stuck in a broke body.

HGJ

Mark Thorson <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

bhanwara said:

I happened to meet a person who became a paraplegic 13 years
ago in a diving accident. But he had recovered enough to be
able to walk by himself now, though he still needs crutches
most of the time.

He had used marijuana to keep himself happy despite his
accident. But I wondered if there was a causal
connection.

How do you know that he might not have needed any crutches
by now, had he not smoked anything at all?

I don't. Like I said -- I "wondered".

But there are sufficient grounds to make this a reasonably valid
speculation. I outlined those grounds, in the hopes that those
who are providing therapy to paraplegics may consider
if it's safe/worthwhile to try out such experiments.

Of course, given the government-sponsored high prejudice
against such substrances and therefore the practical risks involved,
such experiments do pose some problems of personal
risk to the experimenter...

Bud Burner <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 01:47:02 GMT, Mark Thorson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

bhanwara said:

I happened to meet a person who became a paraplegic 13 years
ago in a diving accident. But he had recovered enough to be
able to walk by himself now, though he still needs crutches
most of the time.

He had used marijuana to keep himself happy despite his
accident. But I wondered if there was a causal
connection.

How do you know that he might not have needed any crutches
by now, had he not smoked anything at all?

As much as I'd love to think the cannabis had a beneficial
impact on his condition, it's just as likely that it didn't. Because
of the totalitarian attitude of the US government in restricting
cannabis to schedule 1 (high abuse potential and no redeeming medical
value), very few meaningful studies have been done on just what
conditions are beneficially effected by cannabis.
We in the medpot community are aware of many cases in which
cannabis has helped produce a positive outcome for patients with
certain neurological problems. However, the documentation is only
slowly emerging and most of it is from countries other than the US who
have softened their stance toward cannabis and allow research with
this drug.
Until research is allowed to progress and professional medical
facillities conduct studies of the drug's anecdotal effects on
different medical conditions we'll have no real progress at all. It
needs to be done, done soon, and in carefully crafted clinical trials
with public disclosure of the results.
BudBurner

For well-motivated situations, maybe a relocation to
Canada could be an option.

[email hidden] (BL 1204) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread13551.shtml
BL

"As the waves pass the rock, their shape is changed. There is a hologram of
the rock within the wave that comes forward and crashes on the beach, then
there's a reflected wave back." Ralph Abraham

"I'd like to learn to windsurf." BL

That does lead some credibility to the hypothesis -- if
stroke victims and brain-damage can be helped with a marijuana-like
substance, other neural effects are clearly possible.

Though the "marijuana-like" is disturbing; why synthesize
if the real thing is available? Synthesizing makes
sense only after the natural substance is fully
experimented with and understood, so that its various
components, purities, effects are well known.

"Jack H." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"bhanwara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I happened to meet a person who became a paraplegic 13 years
ago in a diving accident. But he had recovered enough to be
able to walk by himself now, though he still needs crutches
most of the time.

He had used marijuana to keep himself happy despite his
accident. But I wondered if there was a causal
connection.

Nerual connections will grow when stimulated. A drug
like marijuana will modify neural activity, and
maybe it is possible that it could provide stimulation,
helping the lost connections grow.

Could therapy provided while the patient was "under the
influence" lead to recovery? (I don't mean marinol
type stuff, but something that provided actual
drug-impact causing "high"s, i.e. changed neural behavior.)

No over time though the brain and body can learn to form new neural
pathways to recover many if not all of lost motor skills.

That's kind of what I said, why are you adding "No"?

Quoted message said:

I guess sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't.

Has nothing to do with grass.

How do you know that? Grass does things to neurons,
and doing things to neurons (in particular exicting them)
causes them to grow. So it's reasonable to assume
that there is a relation. Just because people happen
to have particular prejudices against grass, doesn't mean
it doesn't have real effects. (If it didn't have
_real_ effects on the nervous system, it wouldn't
be on any schedules now, would it?)

"Amanita, Private Dancer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (bhanwara) crawled forth from the tarpits of hell
and muttered:

Quoted message said:

Could therapy provided while the patient was "under the
influence" lead to recovery? (I don't mean marinol
type stuff, but something that provided actual
drug-impact causing "high"s, i.e. changed neural behavior.)

i'M not going to knock it, but I think it would play more a psychological
factor. The body has amazing healing powers all of its' own. If certain

Yes, as do nerves. Substances do exist to help the body's
healing powers. It's not impossible that this is the
case with nerves too.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Stretch Johnson said:

"Bud Burner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 01:47:02 GMT, Mark Thorson <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bhanwara wrote:

.....................

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Until research is allowed to progress and professional medical
facillities conduct studies of the drug's anecdotal effects on
different medical conditions we'll have no real progress at all. It
needs to be done, done soon, and in carefully crafted clinical trials
with public disclosure of the results.
BudBurner

Quoted message said:

It may be a long time for this country to seriously take notice of the
positive effects of cannabis, big money from drug conglomerates and law
enforcement still effectively lobby our polititians to keep it illegal.

It is unclear whether the drug conglomerates have anything
to do with this; most of the current legislation against
some substances were passed long before the drug companies
had any interest in banning anything. Marijuana was banned
in 1937(?) on strictly moral grounds. For cocaine and
heroin, it was even earlier, I believe before national
Prohibition. Currently, the religious right believes in
banning drugs because they are immoral, and the "liberal"
left believes that the government has not only the right
but the duty to keep you from doing what is bad for you.

"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It
is a species of untemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the
bonds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by
legislation and makes crimes out of things that are not crimes. A
prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our
government was founded"

-- Abraham Lincoln 12/18/1840

--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
[email hidden] Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558

"bhanwara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Amanita, Private Dancer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (bhanwara) crawled forth from the tarpits of hell
and muttered:

Quoted message said:

Could therapy provided while the patient was "under the
influence" lead to recovery? (I don't mean marinol
type stuff, but something that provided actual
drug-impact causing "high"s, i.e. changed neural behavior.)

i'M not going to knock it, but I think it would play more a

psychological

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

factor. The body has amazing healing powers all of its' own. If certain

Yes, as do nerves. Substances do exist to help the body's
healing powers. It's not impossible that this is the
case with nerves too.

The substances that "help the body's healing powers" do so, for the most
part, by fighting infection and supplying nutrition. It is a stretch of the
imagination to surmise that because cannabis has central nervous system
effects it might also stimulate neural growth and repair of neural
connections. Such an idea is not impossible, but it certainly lacks
scientific plausibility.

Gasoline has effects on an internal combustion engine. But one does not
expect gasoline to repair broken piston rings.

--Rich

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"bhanwara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Amanita, Private Dancer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (bhanwara) crawled forth from the tarpits of

hell

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and muttered:

> Could therapy provided while the patient was "under the
> influence" lead to recovery? (I don't mean marinol
> type stuff, but something that provided actual
> drug-impact causing "high"s, i.e. changed neural behavior.)

i'M not going to knock it, but I think it would play more a

psychological

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

factor. The body has amazing healing powers all of its' own. If

certain

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes, as do nerves. Substances do exist to help the body's
healing powers. It's not impossible that this is the
case with nerves too.

The substances that "help the body's healing powers" do so, for the most
part, by fighting infection and supplying nutrition. It is a stretch of

the

Quoted message said:

imagination to surmise that because cannabis has central nervous system
effects it might also stimulate neural growth and repair of neural
connections. Such an idea is not impossible, but it certainly lacks
scientific plausibility.

Gasoline has effects on an internal combustion engine. But one does not
expect gasoline to repair broken piston rings.

Yet damaged neural pathways self-repair or re-route through the activity of
the neurons. It is extremely plausible scientifically that stimulating
neural activity could speed the process.

Shaun aRe

"Shaun Rimmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"bhanwara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Amanita, Private Dancer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

> [email hidden] (bhanwara) crawled forth from the tarpits of

hell

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> and muttered:
>
> > Could therapy provided while the patient was "under the
> > influence" lead to recovery? (I don't mean marinol
> > type stuff, but something that provided actual
> > drug-impact causing "high"s, i.e. changed neural behavior.)
>
> i'M not going to knock it, but I think it would play more a

psychological

Quoted message said:

> factor. The body has amazing healing powers all of its' own. If

certain

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes, as do nerves. Substances do exist to help the body's
healing powers. It's not impossible that this is the
case with nerves too.

The substances that "help the body's healing powers" do so, for the most
part, by fighting infection and supplying nutrition. It is a stretch of

the

Quoted message said:

imagination to surmise that because cannabis has central nervous system
effects it might also stimulate neural growth and repair of neural
connections. Such an idea is not impossible, but it certainly lacks
scientific plausibility.

Gasoline has effects on an internal combustion engine. But one does not
expect gasoline to repair broken piston rings.

Yet damaged neural pathways self-repair or re-route through the activity

of

Quoted message said:

the neurons. It is extremely plausible scientifically that stimulating
neural activity could speed the process.

Has it been established that cannabis actually stimulates neural activity?
If so, does it affect all the neurons in the brain, including those relating
to motor activity? Might not motor neurons be better stimulated by exercise
than by alteration of neurotransmitter chemicals? Amphetamines have much
more stimulant activity on the brain. Might they be better for speeding the
healing of neural injury?

--Rich

"bhanwara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jack H." <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"bhanwara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I happened to meet a person who became a paraplegic 13 years
ago in a diving accident. But he had recovered enough to be
able to walk by himself now, though he still needs crutches
most of the time.

He had used marijuana to keep himself happy despite his
accident. But I wondered if there was a causal
connection.

Nerual connections will grow when stimulated. A drug
like marijuana will modify neural activity, and
maybe it is possible that it could provide stimulation,
helping the lost connections grow.

Could therapy provided while the patient was "under the
influence" lead to recovery? (I don't mean marinol
type stuff, but something that provided actual
drug-impact causing "high"s, i.e. changed neural behavior.)

No over time though the brain and body can learn to form new neural
pathways to recover many if not all of lost motor skills.

That's kind of what I said, why are you adding "No"?

Quoted message said:

I guess sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't.

Has nothing to do with grass.

How do you know that? Grass does things to neurons,

Like causing them to fire randomly.
This is not the same as a concerted effort to get the body to build new
neural pathways over years of repetetive motion to restore muscular control
to a quadraplegic.

what grass does to neurons is akin to what a few drops of water inside your
distributor cap will do to your running engine.

Quoted message said:

and doing things to neurons (in particular exicting them)
causes them to grow.

there is a difference between an excited neuron and an exercised neuron.

Quoted message said:

So it's reasonable to assume

No it is not. It never is.

Quoted message said:

that there is a relation. Just because people happen
to have particular prejudices against grass, doesn't mean
it doesn't have real effects. (If it didn't have
_real_ effects on the nervous system, it wouldn't
be on any schedules now, would it?)

Dude I am the last person to be prejudiced about grass.

ask ANY regular in alt.drugs.pot
I send seeds in the mail over seas, I send grass in the mail to peeps I have
never met because I know they will send money.
I have grown it on my fire escape in Astoria Queens in the great city of NY.

I love pot.
I don think it is a miracle drug but it has its uses.

Howm Grone J

"Shaun Rimmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"bhanwara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Amanita, Private Dancer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

> [email hidden] (bhanwara) crawled forth from the tarpits of

hell

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> and muttered:
>
> > Could therapy provided while the patient was "under the
> > influence" lead to recovery? (I don't mean marinol
> > type stuff, but something that provided actual
> > drug-impact causing "high"s, i.e. changed neural behavior.)
>
> i'M not going to knock it, but I think it would play more a

psychological

Quoted message said:

> factor. The body has amazing healing powers all of its' own. If

certain

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes, as do nerves. Substances do exist to help the body's
healing powers. It's not impossible that this is the
case with nerves too.

The substances that "help the body's healing powers" do so, for the most
part, by fighting infection and supplying nutrition. It is a stretch of

the

Quoted message said:

imagination to surmise that because cannabis has central nervous system
effects it might also stimulate neural growth and repair of neural
connections. Such an idea is not impossible, but it certainly lacks
scientific plausibility.

Gasoline has effects on an internal combustion engine. But one does not
expect gasoline to repair broken piston rings.

Yet damaged neural pathways self-repair or re-route through the activity

of

Quoted message said:

the neurons. It is extremely plausible scientifically that stimulating
neural activity could speed the process.

True but it has to be a focused one not a random firing of synapses.

maybe pot AND PT....

I would try it but I am not willing to risk my neck to do it.

Quoted message said:

Shaun aRe

Howm Grone J

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Gasoline has effects on an internal combustion engine. But one does not
expect gasoline to repair broken piston rings.

Yes, and cannabis is not being expected here to heal dog-bites.

There is an actual connection posited in the original post, and maybe
there is a better platitude waiting to be discovered once
the logic of the original post is actually understood!